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Killers are 110% Movement Speed for a reason.
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That is exactly what I said, they are killers with strong powers but weak map pressure. Some characters have amazing map and gen pressure, some don't.
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That's a problem considering that map pressure is probably the single most important part of being a good killer.
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The difference to those killers you mentioned though are that they aren't ranged killers technically. Their powers are fairly close ranged, and clown is not in that category, you could say the same thing about doctor then as well. What I'm saying is that the Trickster's power is not that amazing as is, and I believe they meant it to work differently but it isnt, that is why he is 110%. I never said they made him 110, then made his power. Just as you said, that is not how they design a character. There must be a reason why he is 110, and it is probably because they wanted the power to be stronger but that isn't how it worked out. I believe if they make the knives work faster at killer (such as decreasing the amount needed) and making laceration work better he could be good. The key is to make him unique and different than the other ranged killers, and I think with the addition of laceration, I could see them trying to make a killer that could keep ticks on survivors with the knives weakening them and then if they escape next time you see them you can down them faster. You can see almost the way they wanted him to be played by things in his kit that are there, but other things do not help that. He slows down while throwing knives, meaning if he was meant for zoning then that would hurt him because less distance. But slowing down for throwing knives is just like aiming with deathslinger and huntress. You do slow down with plague though, but again you use her perk in very close quarters. You can use Trickster's ability close as well but with an ability that throws far and so straight shows they meant him to be used mid range as well. I understand deathslinger and Huntress are much deadlier, because Trickster isn't meant to be a one shot injure type of ranged killer, he is a different take on that type of killer. If they wanted him to be used differently, then yeah make him 115, I'm still gonna play him, but the way they have made this foundation for him, he just needs his ability tweaked and made stronger, hell his whole ultimate right now is like busted.
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Idk. I watched Scott Jund's video about differences between 110% and 115% killers, and it seems like movement speed (at least between these two numbers) makes almost no difference to gameplay other than feeling good. For that reason, I'd be fine if they buffed his speed, because it really just FEELS better, rather than actually improving him.
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IIRC, his video was about map pressure and how the 5% movement difference isn't that huge when talking about getting from 1 end of the map to the other.
The main difference 110% makes is when it comes to playing around tiles.
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Trickster needs a lot of changes and a lot of buffs to be on the same level as a lot of ranged killers.
115% is an idea, but it won't fix all of his problems.
It's basically a band aid fix they can do so he isn't garbage on release, then they can start changing/buffing/reworking him so he can actually be good.
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I think there are basic rules on why a killer is 110%. Let's give some examples:
Hag is forced to rely on her traps did to her speed reduction, so it defines her playstyle.
Same with huntress and deathslinger, they can down you effectively without using their m1 (I don't count deathslingers m1 after he has pulled someone in an m1). So it gives survivors some counterplay in loops. The same also applies to trickster.
The spirit's lack of speed during loops force her to either use her ability or be looped for an eternity.
I think that's all, I'll make sure to check and edit if I forget anyone
Basically, to address the point of the forum, killers with strong powers get a speed reduction to make sure they rely on their powers.
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you are, once again, trying to create a killer power based on the stats here.
thats a bit like saying the Wraith would be deserving of being 110% mms (assuming for a second that he was), because if we just make him throw the bell and make it instantly down survivors it would be a strong chase power.
while you would technically speaking be right with that statement, it goes entirely against the basic design idea the killer portraits - Wraith is a stealth killer who mainly relies on sneaking up on targets to get easy M1 attacks on them. and Trickster is a zoning killer who mainly relies on forcing survivors in a certain part of the map he wants them to be in to get easy M1 attacks on them.
of course there is the possibility that you might injure / down someone with your power, but this isnt the main focus of it. the whole point of the laceration meter is to NOT have him be a strong chase killer. injuring someone with your power as Trickster is ment to only be possible when the survivor is out in the open, in a deadzone. if they are running you on a Jungly Gym you will not be getting your knifes to work for you, unless they vault sthg right in your face that is - and even then you'll only get a few hits in, not enough to damage them.
in other words, his power is a TOOL he can use to make it easier for himself to get hits on survivors, much like a Trappers Beartraps or a Clowns Afterpiece Tonic Bottles. it is NOT his main way of injuring / downing survivors - and its not intended to be.
if you want to change that, you'd have to entirely rework the way his knifes work. they'd need to be easier accessable / hitable in looping tiles and they need to have more lethality to them.
its possible, but it isnt what their intended usage is.
also, he would absolutely not be the first killer for them to increase the base mms from 110% to 115% because their power is lacking chaseability. they did this exact thing back when they reworked Legion, because Legions power wasnt ment to be a strong chase power, but a power to quickly apply map pressure, give them mobility and information power instead.
so once again:
we have two options.
1) we entirely rework his power to somehow justify his 110% mms (your idea)
2) we acknowledge that his power is merely a secondary part of his kit that is ment to support the killer in chases instead of being his main chase capability and change his basestats accordingly to 115% mms.
both are possible. its just that 1) would be a LOT more work to do.
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What part of the Tricksters power tells you it is meant for zoning? The fact he has laceration shows that he should stack damage and be a ranged attacking killer. Deathslinger can technically zone very well as well, with his ads making survivors run where you want. Huntress can do this as well, actually a lot of killers can zone with their ability, doesn't make them zoning killers. And making Trickster a better ranged killer actually wouldnt be harder, why would you think that at all lmao. All he really needs is some number changes and that is about it, make his knives take a little less to injure and most importantly, make laceration longer before decaying or make decay take longer. Also fix his Main Event as it is currently just broken and bugged. But making him 115 and making the power more for zoning WOULD be much more work, because you are changing the entire foundation of the killer. Simply buffing parts of his kit is easier. Dont know what else you thought I meant, because that is all he needs.
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His main event is not bugged, I believe. It isn't meant to make the Trickster move faster. It just makes it so the Trickster's movement speed does not decay while throwing knives.
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It is supposed to make your movement speed stay at 110% but instead it still makes you slow, as well as it is supposed to give you unlimited knives but it still uses them up, it is only infinite once you run out
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In that case, ew.
Main Event is incredibly underwhelming to use, and can be outright beneficial to the Survivors due to the slowdown it causes Trickster. It also obviously doesn't really increase his potential very well, and is wildly punished for playing the game normally (M1 degradation). Not to mention that it currently eats ammo (don't know if this was a bug or intended now). Knowing that the slower movement speed is intentional just kinda makes it that much worse: It's way too punishing and too situational for what it is, and the "boost" it gives is honestly not even worth it on account of how detrimental it can be.
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He definitely needs a buff but not something that's going to make him over powered
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But the trickster can throw faster than huntress
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What it does, from what I am reading, is keep your movement speed at 3.6 m/s while throwing a flurry of knives instead of gradually slowing it down to 2.6 m/s.
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You are not wrong, but that does not mean Trickster can knock off a health state faster than Huntress.
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Honestly what i would like to see is something more interesting, where his m1 requires like 3-4 hits to down, but he has 120% movement speed. Tweak numbers, but this would actually make him unique in some way.
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Tricksters pwore is super basic and and far weaker than huntress and deathslinger. Making him 115% but be nice but id rather they buff his power a lot instead. Who knows i doubt we'll see anything until live which pisses me off.
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In his power description under Main Event, it says this exactly, "Wielding an unlimited number of Blades, his Throw rate is significantly increased and his Movement Speed does not slow while in the Throw State." It says it right there in it, movement speed not throwing speed.
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Literally in his power description it says, "Movement Speed does not slow"
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"Movement speed does not slow while in the Throw State."
According to the wiki, his movement speed decreases while in the Throw State depending on the number of knives thrown, down from the base 3.6 m/s to a minimum of 2.6 m/s after 30 blades. Using Main Event will keep him at a constant 3.6 m/s.
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I say make it so the knives bounce off objects as a base also decrease the hits to 6 and increase time the hits stay on the target
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Before I continue, just prefacing that if you and I were discussing this face to face, my tone would be respectful and genuinely curious:
But if traveling the entire length of the map only results in ~3 second difference, wouldn't that also mean that traveling around a tile results in a fraction of a difference between the two speeds?
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I can see why some would suggest the speed increase. As is trickster's power doesn't feel like it warrants the slower speed.
I'd rather see more versatility in his power chase wise than a flat movement change.
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Oh my
another beg to nerf killers fest
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True huntress can throw farther and just needs 1 accurate hit. Let's say the trickster had a movement buff. Depending on the player hitting 8 shots will be easy on a good player. Average player they'll still hit well too. It makes sense to keep the speed as it is right now
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Actually Plagues puke is coded as a bunch of mini projectiles not one strand of puke so she is quite literally the same as other killers.
The reason she stays at 115 is because she can only injure situationally (getting red puke)/takes a while to build up the infection.
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In terms of map pressure, he is correct. when it comes to going to point A to point B, there is very little difference. Its like every 22 seconds is like 1 second for 110% lacking behind so in some sense, if your using a perk like pop goes weasel, the duration of pop goes weasel is like 42 seconds compared to that of 115% killer, 40 if counting the kick animation. General mobility in the game like Billy or freddy TP is highly overrated.
In chase, it makes all the difference. a 110% killer catches up to a survivor 33% slower in relation to the survivor running speed or you could say that 115% killer is 50% faster. This is important for other killers because they need get into range to perform a lunge attack but ranged killers are expected to injure survivors with their range power so they are not suppose to require the need to gap-close a survivor. Its just that... his range attack is not equal to 1 health state worth of damage and the movement speed decrease while in throwing mode is more severe because compare to Huntress and Deathslinger, they do not spend as much time at reduced speeds as he does in his throwing mode. Deathslinger is almost never slowed by his ADS because he quickscopes and Huntress only needs to land 1 hatchet while he needs to land 16 daggers for a down which takes way longer. Your either in throwing mode moving at 92% throwing daggers that lowers your speed even further up to 60% or your M1 killer at 110%.
Doubt they'd ever increase his base movement speed. Maybe they'd increase his movement when in throwing mode so you can better follow the survivor to land that many daggers consecutively though I believe he has yellow and grey add-on that does that.
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115% movement speed would be the worst decision they could make to buff Trickster. Buff his power until it is good enough, we don't need a M1 killer who barely uses his power, end of story. I've already said a few ideas in other threads but more movement speed ain't the answer.
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I think they should really address his godawful recoil when throwing knives. I get why they made it that way but at the same time it doesn't make a tonne of sense? Your arms don't get recoil after continously throwing stuff, maybe firing a machine gun but your arms certainly aren't that.
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Trickster needs something. 115 base movement would be that something, and it wouldn't even make him that strong because he still would have the same weakness - being unable to play maze tiles with his power.
Edit: to clarify, I don't want that to be the buff he gets, I would rather his power be made stronger. Probably by removing recoil and automatic damage regression.
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I am not saying that making him 115 wouldnt make him better, it would, but that isn't the change he needs. His power is lacking, and since it isnt that great people think him walking faster would fix it, when that isn't the case at all. His power would still be underwhelming but now he can just m1 better.
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Someone had to say it
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I mean, from my POV og PH did deserve 110% but not in his current state, he does have a high skill ceiling and he is punishing to noobs. As for trickster, the thing is there's literally no skill to him so it'd make no sense to make him 115% when you can just randomly spam your knives and eventually down someone.
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After seeing some streamers playing with and against trickster, I would say his weaknesses is his speed and the amount of daggers its takes to take down someone, not to mention that the survivor still gets the speed boost after they are "fully injured" by the daggers.
I see how a simple loops costs the killer 10 secs to be able to get a hit on one survivor , more if its bigger, such as Haddonfields loop around the cars by the house. It was frustrating to see.
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Not sure how people aren't seeing his movement speed punishes his knife throws. If he didn't lose so much ground speed throwing his knives, he could actually hit his quota easier. Buffing his movement would actually promote the knives as well. I understand the concern of M1'ing becoming the normal, but survivors gaining so much foot coverage over him slowing down is what can lead to him chasing being so punishing.
I'm just going to keep copy pasting my current outlook on buffs he needs.
Main Event - Can be activated on demand whenever it is earned, instead of the current use or lose.
Speedster - Movement speed increased. He is ranged, but his damage isn't instant like Deathslinger or Huntress. And he has to keep up to the Survivor to continue the Laceration counter unlike Plague who can spray them once and leave. His power is no where near Hag and Nurse power. This would also help his map pressure.
Trick Blades - I do think ricochet as base could have potential. I'd say bouncing blades either do less damage (like 50% or 75%) or regular damage. The add on can be the 200% bouncing or just straight up make a new one.
Laceration Meter - Takes longer to decay and decays slower. This won't punish him as much for switching targets. Currently switching targets just took away all of your work if you didn't fill the meter to get the damage or down.
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I do agree with most those changes but I believe movement speed isnt the issue. While yes, movement speed doesn't help him right now at all and really hurts him, it's clear there is a reason they made him 110%, which means they want him to be a ranged killer like the others. The Devs I believe also stated after awhile of him being released they are going to see how good he is compared to Deathslinger and Huntress, meaning they see him as up to their level. I don't believe he is up to their level either but he could with some good buffs to his kit. Honestly making it where he takes maybe 7 instead of 8 knives, and then making it where laceration doesnt go down in chase and out of chase goes down extremely slow would make him much better. A good trickster honestly can hit those 8 knives very fast and accurately anyways, and making it where he can just damage more reliably and keep pressure with damage would help him lots. Also make main event give you 0 slow down along with all the buffs it gives currently. It should be a moment of zooming around throwing knives and right now its kinda useless or not strong at all.
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