No Mither Rework

Demonented

Since the new survivor, Adam Francis, had came out with an interesting perk called Deliverance, this brings a new way to rework something that shows both survivors and killers your hand when playing with No Mither. As it is right now, No Mither is only useful if the killer lets you stay down in dying state long enough to let you recover fully. Which, if the killer notices that you have the Broken state, they would not be dumb enough to allow this. When you run No Mither, the killer will instantly pick you up, defeating the purpose of the perk all together. Now back to the Deliverance. That perk has the forethought to not indicate that you have it until you use it. And its a one time use. This should be the way No Mither works as well. You would have the normal, non broken state at start, but when you go down and successfully recover all the way, you would then have the broken state for 60 sec. if you are downed while having the broken state, you can not recover fully. But if you last the 60 sec. of broken state, then you would be able to use it once again. Making the perk a bit more useful.

Thoughts on this possible idea of a rework?

Milo

Then No Mither would be OP. Renember it also gives you no pools of blood and reduced groaning.
It gives you.broken out right cause it prevents healing

Demonented

@Milo said:
Then No Mither would be OP. Renember it also gives you no pools of blood and reduced groaning.
It gives you.broken out right cause it prevents healing

That would still be in the perk where you can not be healed. Ridding of the part of the perk that gives no pools of blood and reduction of groaning would even out the killer knowing from the start that you can not be allowed to sit in dying state long enough to recover. That is the whole idea of this rework is to make it not out the gate reveal your perk.

Milo

Demonented said:

@Milo said:
Then No Mither would be OP. Renember it also gives you no pools of blood and reduced groaning.
It gives you.broken out right cause it prevents healing

That would still be in the perk where you can not be healed. Ridding of the part of the perk that gives no pools of blood and reduction of groaning would even out the killer knowing from the start that you can not be allowed to sit in dying state long enough to recover. That is the whole idea of this rework is to make it not out the gate reveal your perk.

So basically: start healthy when injured you cannoy be healed but its not shown to killer

Demonented

@Demonented said:
That is the whole idea of this rework is to make it not out the gate reveal your perk.

I dont think there is another perk out there that gives everyone a sight into your hand except this perk. There are others that have events that then reveal what perk is being used like Hex: Ruin where you have to work on a gen to find out the killer is running on it. But yes, start healthy, if you get hurt you cant be healed, not showing a broken state unless you recover from downed state by the perk

Dabrownman1812

This perk is hard mode, not supposed to be viable or useable. No buffs lol. It's literally hard mode for people who want it. 

Dabrownman1812

That's an op rework and crazy since unbreakable gets you up once per match. People gotta leave hard mode alone. It's hard mode. Devs said it, people asked for it. 

Zanfer

@Demonented said:
Since the new survivor, Adam Francis, had came out with an interesting perk called Deliverance, this brings a new way to rework something that shows both survivors and killers your hand when playing with No Mither. As it is right now, No Mither is only useful if the killer lets you stay down in dying state long enough to let you recover fully. Which, if the killer notices that you have the Broken state, they would not be dumb enough to allow this. When you run No Mither, the killer will instantly pick you up, defeating the purpose of the perk all together. Now back to the Deliverance. That perk has the forethought to not indicate that you have it until you use it. And its a one time use. This should be the way No Mither works as well. You would have the normal, non broken state at start, but when you go down and successfully recover all the way, you would then have the broken state for 60 sec. if you are downed while having the broken state, you can not recover fully. But if you last the 60 sec. of broken state, then you would be able to use it once again. Making the perk a bit more useful.

Thoughts on this possible idea of a rework?

If the killer was smart they would realize that someone is injured at the start of the match and keep tabs on them knowing that they have no mithar without giving the indication..

projecteulogy

@Dabrownman1812 said:
This perk is hard mode, not supposed to be viable or useable. No buffs lol. It's literally hard mode for people who want it. 

You want hard mode, go no perks or simply play solo. If it was never meant to be viable or useful, remove it. Or rework it. A lot of us survivors hate taking meta perks. Changing this perk would be beneficial to the game itself and open up so many possibilities for playstyle loadouts.

The problem is at higher ranks its a slugfest, you get tunneled, or camped. However, if you're 1 of the the last 2 survivors.. you're getting slugged. If not, that killer is a god damn legend. Unless you're playing extremely low ranks, the killer is going to see you have No Mither and tunnel you specifically. There isn't even a BP Boost benefit for taking it.

Possible Suggestion: Turn it into an Obsession perk. Only triggering once you've been downed. Killer's should not be seeing "Broken" status.

Dabrownman1812

projecteulogy said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
This perk is hard mode, not supposed to be viable or useable. No buffs lol. It's literally hard mode for people who want it. 

You want hard mode, go no perks or simply play solo. If it was never meant to be viable or useful, remove it. Or rework it. A lot of us survivors hate taking meta perks. Changing this perk would be beneficial to the game itself and open up so many possibilities for playstyle loadouts.

The problem is at higher ranks its a slugfest, you get tunneled, or camped. However, if you're 1 of the the last 2 survivors.. you're getting slugged. If not, that killer is a god damn legend. Unless you're playing extremely low ranks, the killer is going to see you have No Mither and tunnel you specifically. There isn't even a BP Boost benefit for taking it.

Possible Suggestion: Turn it into an Obsession perk. Only triggering once you've been downed. Killer's should not be seeing "Broken" status.

projecteulogy said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
This perk is hard mode, not supposed to be viable or useable. No buffs lol. It's literally hard mode for people who want it. 

You want hard mode, go no perks or simply play solo. If it was never meant to be viable or useful, remove it. Or rework it. A lot of us survivors hate taking meta perks. Changing this perk would be beneficial to the game itself and open up so many possibilities for playstyle loadouts.

The problem is at higher ranks its a slugfest, you get tunneled, or camped. However, if you're 1 of the the last 2 survivors.. you're getting slugged. If not, that killer is a god damn legend. Unless you're playing extremely low ranks, the killer is going to see you have No Mither and tunnel you specifically. There isn't even a BP Boost benefit for taking it.

Possible Suggestion: Turn it into an Obsession perk. Only triggering once you've been downed. Killer's should not be seeing "Broken" status.

How is no perks or solo hard mode, hard mode with most games is the player getting a deficit. Yes, I stay away from meta perks and like to see some get a rework but people seem to fail to realize there is no other way to put in hard mode for an individual player than using no mither. You can like the perk, doesn't matter. It's hard mode, deal with it. No mither makes you stealth and juke harder than normal, good job. Survive with no mither and become god tier. I do it off and on at rank 1 before emblem, that's the point of the perk. It's to show how macho you are, cause david king was macho. He already took a beating which is what starts no mither. The game is hard mode, it has some synergy. Getting up as many times as possible and still healing is powerful. Understand why it exists and you'll be fine. Idk how you play. But I know many who do well on ps4 rank 1 no mither, Billy, nurse, doc, whoever. Cause no mither is a test of your skill and pushes you to play with making minimal mistakes. 

Dabrownman1812

Survivors have mechanics on their side, we survivors don't need perks, solo no perks is not hard mode

Dabrownman1812

Maybe hard for you, you aren't ready for a no mither run then

Demonented

@projecteulogy said:

Possible Suggestion: Turn it into an Obsession perk. Only triggering once you've been downed. Killer's should not be seeing "Broken" status.

I agree that Killers should not see broken status at all.

Volfawott

Demonented said:

Since the new survivor, Adam Francis, had came out with an interesting perk called Deliverance, this brings a new way to rework something that shows both survivors and killers your hand when playing with No Mither. As it is right now, No Mither is only useful if the killer lets you stay down in dying state long enough to let you recover fully. Which, if the killer notices that you have the Broken state, they would not be dumb enough to allow this. When you run No Mither, the killer will instantly pick you up, defeating the purpose of the perk all together. Now back to the Deliverance. That perk has the forethought to not indicate that you have it until you use it. And its a one time use. This should be the way No Mither works as well. You would have the normal, non broken state at start, but when you go down and successfully recover all the way, you would then have the broken state for 60 sec. if you are downed while having the broken state, you can not recover fully. But if you last the 60 sec. of broken state, then you would be able to use it once again. Making the perk a bit more useful.

Thoughts on this possible idea of a rework?

You can't really compare the two perks.

Deliverance is a conditional basis and it also has a time limit to it's broken effects.

No mither effects have already begun the second the trial starts hence why when you use it would automatically give you the notification that you're broken due to no mither during the camera pan.

Dabrownman1812

Aari_Piggy66 said:

Demonented said:

Since the new survivor, Adam Francis, had came out with an interesting perk called Deliverance, this brings a new way to rework something that shows both survivors and killers your hand when playing with No Mither. As it is right now, No Mither is only useful if the killer lets you stay down in dying state long enough to let you recover fully. Which, if the killer notices that you have the Broken state, they would not be dumb enough to allow this. When you run No Mither, the killer will instantly pick you up, defeating the purpose of the perk all together. Now back to the Deliverance. That perk has the forethought to not indicate that you have it until you use it. And its a one time use. This should be the way No Mither works as well. You would have the normal, non broken state at start, but when you go down and successfully recover all the way, you would then have the broken state for 60 sec. if you are downed while having the broken state, you can not recover fully. But if you last the 60 sec. of broken state, then you would be able to use it once again. Making the perk a bit more useful.

Thoughts on this possible idea of a rework?

You can't really compare the two perks.

Deliverance is a conditional basis and it also has a time limit to it's broken effects.

No mither effects have already begun the second the trial starts hence why when you use it would automatically give you the notification that you're broken due to no mither during the camera pan.

Also no mither is hard mode, people forget this lol

Demonented

@Aari_Piggy66 said:

You can't really compare the two perks.

Oh, I can compare them, and I did.

They both are the only ones that give the broken status. Comparing them is inevitable lol

TigerKirby215

I have suggested before that No Mither should let you get up once per match before giving you the No Heal debuff, unless you're running it with Unbreakable in which case you'd be able to get up twice.
I don't think Broken should go away after you get up with No Mither (especially after 60 seconds) as it would pretty much defeat the purpose of Unbreakable entirely, with No Mither being a better version of Unbreakable that comes with Iron Will and reduced Blood Pools at the cost of not having a faster dying state recovery speed. I thought it would be permanent akin to what they suggested for Decisive Strike a long time ago which I honestly thought was another good idea. Decisive and No Mither should be last ditch recovery tools, not something you use constantly. Having it as "Unbreakable; Stealth Edition" honestly seems fair to me.

Also we need a way to start the trial injured beyond using Unbreakable for the sake of Resilience combos. I don't know how weird it would be to give Survivors a button to break their own arm but I could see some use in it. If only for BP farming.