The Mindless Killer build: BBQ+Pop
Need I say any more? This build is used in almost every game at the higher ranks due to how simple it makes defending the generators. There's no skill or (real) counterplay to this combo. There is counterplay to BBQ, hiding in lockers, but doing that when repairing a generator just wastes precious time. That means there's more chance the killer will get to the generator before it's repaired and ruin all your hard work and effort for no effort or investment at all.
The killer just hooks a survivor (easy enough) and sees everyone's aura, and then they can go to generators being worked on and instantly get rid of 30-40 or more seconds of a generator repair progression, counting the fact it applies normal regression ON TOP OF the massive gen progress decrease. There's nothing the survivor can do about it. It doesn't even have a cool down, so if someone tries to repair the generator to make up for the unavoidable regression loss, the killer can just do it again with no penalty. It literally punishes you for playing well, and I don't know if that's healthy.
I realise this will probably be seen as a joke or bait by the people of this forum, but I'm being serious. This build is used in almost every high rank game - even the Decisive Strike + Unbreakable combo isn't used that often, yet the BBQ+Pop combo is the one ignored. It reeks of hypocrisy to me. Both combos are uncounterable without literally stopping doing your objective. Killers should face the same stigma for running these mindless combos that survivors are given, and I'm sick of this community giving them a free pass.
Tl;dr: Killers are hypocrites for complaining about good survivor perk combos when they use an overpowered and uncounterable perk combo every game. It's the small PP build for killer.
Comments
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Well, it's not like killers have very many perks to choose from other than these. If you want to have a good chance at winning at the high ranks, it is practically necessary to run these perks.
But I wouldn't exactly say that this makes the killers who run it "braindead".
And the difference between this perk combo and DS + unbreakable is that the killer's combo has counterplay. DS + unb atm is literally unfair.
At least a killer has to hook a survivor after chasing them and using their power in order to get BBQ to work. Survivors don't have to do anything for bond to work, or dead hard other than being injured, or SB, or iron will. The difference is that killers have to work harder to get value out of BBQ. Survivors on the other hand don't really have to do much and just instantly have their perks ready to be used.
BBQ and pop reward the killer for doing their job which is rewarding their skill. But most survivor perks are immediately available or are there when they don't even do something. If anything, survivor perks reward them for losing (BT - A precaution in case the killer slugs the hooked survivor, DS in case the survivor is hooked again when their teammate performed a dumb unsafe rescue, unbreakable if they get slugged meaning they got caught).
PS: You said there was no counterplay for BBQ but literally mentioned counterplay for it in the same sentence. There is also more counterplay for BBQ too, and there is counterplay for pop.
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There are more perks than bbq that can determine what generators are being worked on. I guess those are ok because they don't give the killer more points.
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...wait a minute you're not Sluzzy :(
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I thought the counter play was not getting hooked?
Maybe only a few people can avoid going down immediately in every chase.
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Don't get hooked and the killer can't get value from both Pop and BBQ.
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You just opened pandora's box.
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Killer has to best the Survivors and get the down first, then bbq only pays off if Survivors don't utilize the window before the hook to hide their aura. It's info that is earned, but yeah makes the difficult job of gen defense easier.
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Did you just call BBQ and Pop op? Ok here here lemme try to help you out here. If you want to fully counter it, Cheryl Mason has a teachable perk that you can use on any survivor when you unlock it in her bloodweb at level 40, it is called Repressed Alliance, after working on a gen for 60 seconds you can block it for 30 seconds, leaving 15 seconds or less left on the killer's Pop or they just have to give up Pop and go chase you. If you want to counter Pop without perks, you can just waste the killers time by either distracting them so they don't use it, or when they go to kick it you run away and make a bunch of distance.
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Yeah no survivor had ever escaped against a killer using BBQ and Pop. Instant doom right there.
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You realize BBQ only shows generators that are at least 40 meters away from the hook, right? That means they go away from the hook, allowing survivors to unhook. Would you rather they just proxy camp to create pressure? This promote healthy gameplay. Gen tapping isn't 'playing well' either. Nor is your teammates getting hooked. If anything Pop + BBQ rewards good play by the killer. They get to see where survivors are for downing a survivor.
Thrilling + Pop is another good combo, and it works on nearby gens, which means you aren't risking the gen popping before you get there, and can defend the hook.
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Great, another piece of "counterplay" relying on solo queue teammates knowing what a pallet is. Maybe in a fantasy world.
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I never said BBQ was overpowered, just the combo of BBQ and Pop. Hex: Ruin isn't overpowered. Hex: Undying also wasn't overpowered, it wasn't even that strong with any other hex perk.; but when the two are combined, it becomes far too strong. It's the same with BBQ and Pop (except Pop is a bit less healthy than no -Ruin Undying)
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Yea man every Add-Onless trapper I've gone against with just BBQ and Pop and nothing else has always instadowned me then teleported the gen out the map then did a 360 moonwalk then set a trap that would immediately down the Quentin hiding in a corner
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Welp guess I'll be using Thrilling Tremors to avoid being called braindead. Sorry bloodpoints...
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You literally said the BBQ + pop combo was overpowered in your last sentence.
Killers are hypocrites for complaining about good survivor perk combos when they use an overpowered and uncounterable perk combo every game. It's the small PP build for killer.
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I will not disagree with you about Pop and BBQ seeing a lot of use. They are both good perks that a killer can not lose throughout a match (unlike totems). However, I do not think either of them is overpowered, and they are both good for the game's health. Both perks discourage camping and encourage moving away from the hook, which is always a good thing.
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Well no, Pop only takes away 25% of the total gen progress, which is ~20s, since gens take 80s to complete. Unless the survivors are just bad and allow me to get multiple hooks then pop kinda does have a cooldown. What exactly are you suggesting killers bring to a match honestly?
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Silly, we all know Billy is the one who downs Quentin hiding in a corner.
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Trapper has very unseen potential when it comes to situations like this, the most famous happening of his strength is a Jake who went to every exit to shack and managed to get trapped at every doorway
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Here you go, OP :)
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Thought the same lol
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Also survivors can use Repressed Alliance to counter Pop. Wait a couple seconds after the hook, then block the generator so the killer can't kick it. Boom. Countered.
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That is very true, Trapper is a master of prediction, but Billy is the only one who is capable of downing Quentin hiding in a corner.
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Ruin undying combo was not strong or good. Literally had no effect on survivors other than the 1 person being chased= 1 gen regressing. Other Survivors not doing gens doesn't make it strong just show how bad those Survivors are.
Even with high mobility killers, if you don't secure a down before switching chase to someone else, your still dealing with 3 people on gens with regression at a fraction of individual repair speed.
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Both perks reward killer for playing their objective. BBQ rewards the killer for getting hooks and the aura reading makes them move away from the hook to get pop. Remember - a killer cannot get value from pop if they don't get hooks.
If PGTW bothers you, why not use repressed alliance?
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Yes, I did say the combo of BBQ and Pop is overpowered. Because it is; that's the whole point of this post. I don't see your point?
BBQ on it's own isn't overpowered. Pop on it's own is incredibly, incredibly strong (bordering on overpowered) but falls just shy. Combining them makes Pop much, much stronger. Therefore, the combo is overpowered.
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PGTW is mathematically not good. You will often waste more time using it than you would've saved by kicking a gen.
I say this with no ill intent, but try to play a bit more. Pop can feel overbearing, but I assure you it isn't that bad.
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Wrong, nothing is overpowered about pop, i need to hook survivors for each instance of pop to be usable. If i can make use of pop multiple times then that's just rewarding me for doing my one and only job, to hook survivors. I just don't see how you think its overpowered...especially after it's recent nerf from 60 seconds to 45....you aren't making sense.
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Kindred is bbq for survivor better you can see killer and your team please nerf no counter play
I can pick almost any perk and complain how its op
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Take away the BP bonus and give it to another perk and, I promise you, you’d barely see BBQ. In all honesty, I thought this was gunna be a discussion about Pop + Hex: Ruin. For some reason that seems more offensive to me then a perk that promotes healthy game play. :/
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No I think this is bait. So we'll just let the gens rush with no defence then because survivors like you don't like it? Don't think so
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This is some top tier bait.
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Just stop doing Gens, then the killer can’t use Pop, that’ll teach em for bringing that perk!
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Kindred and Prove Thyself: Ultra OP pls nerf meta build because you can see other people doing gens and you can go to the gen they are working on for TOTALLY EZ GEN RUSH!
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step one: spread out on gens.
step two: push gens that are close together first.
oh look, you countered it.
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It's used every game for a simple reason, pop is a nice gen slowdown perk and bbq gives bloodpoints and gives much needed sura reading. Keep in mind, thrilling and pop would be more or less the same
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Just gen rush lol, you got it champ.
Doesn't take long to make 25% progress.
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I take it someone has been having a rough couple of games.
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Are you really complaining about two perks that the killer can only activate by being an active participant in the match? Said killer has to chase, loop, and hook a survivor for either to be used, then go out and make use of that info, and you see a problem with that? Not slugging, not camping, not tunneling, but doing what the killer is supposed to be doing?
Okay then.
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DS - requires you to get hooked twice
Unbreakable - requires you to lose a chase to the Killer and be downed
...
BBQ+Pop - requires you to win chases and hook survivors continuously to keep providing value
Yeah BBQ + Pop is the small PP build for Killers, sure OP.
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body is 1 character too short
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That's not braindead at all though
The killer needs to actually win chases and hook survivors for either of those perks to do anything
You could argue ruin + undying is braindead (Especially pre-nerf) because all you need to do in order for ruin to work is walk to a gen. I'm not saying I agree with that either, but it's an argument you could make
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I never said BBQ was overpowered, just the combo of BBQ and Pop
It's just a bit weird how you said you didn't say it was op but then turned it around.
If the combo was overpowered, killers using those perks would be winning every single game left and right. I use this frequently, but I don't 4k every single game with it.
And the perks do have counterplay and are balanced. The perks together are not OP, but they reward the killer for doing their job.
Pop rewards the killer for killing survivors and so does BBQ. Thing is, that if a killer chases survivors off a generator and uses pop on it, they give up distance on the survivors who were just there.
Some counterplay for BBQ would be getting inside the 40-meter range of the hooked survivor, hiding behind the a generator's aura, and getting in a locker.
Some counterplay for pop would be to not let a killer pop the same generator twice by letting it regress more (more beneficial than you would think) and splitting up on generators. Splitting up on generators is definitely the best way to counter or reduce the effects of pop. The perk will only work once in a time limit of 45 seconds after each hook the killer gets as well.
Also, thrilling tremors does the same thing. So would thrilling + pop also be OP? What about surveillance + pop?
Pop and BBQ are definitely balanced.
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No counter. Except for:
- Using a locker
- Perks that hide your aura.
- Hiding your aura behind the generator
- Getting within 40 meters of the killer
Pop regresses a gen by 20 seconds, which is SOOO MASSIVE, except that:
- It requires a hook
- Picking someone up walking them to a hook, hooking them, then walking to a generator probably takes about 20-25 seconds. More if you aren't near the gen you want to pop.
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Pop is needed and bbq isn't even that good. Bbq is really only good for bloodpoints. That's why I use it. Tinker or discordance are better then bbq
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Well they are meta perks for a reason.
Pop is negotiable. I personally prefer ruin. BBQ is there because who the hell doesn't want more blood points? Most of the time, I forget to even look around for auras. Just give me my money.
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Then how are killers suppose to slow the game down when you can complete all 5 gens in less than 5 minutes eh? pop is needed and So is Ruin.
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I know you are being serious, more is the pity. Your understanding of this game is clearly still in its infancy. Your manners do need a bit improvement too. Your title is basically an insult to any Killer using those Perks. I don't see this as a joke, but rather as a rude deficiency in your knowledge. Let me explain a few things:
- Barbecue & Chili is probably the BEST Perk for Survivors because it vastly reduces the amount of camping that would be taking place. Killers leave the vicinity of the hook because they seem some DISTANT potential targets. Remember, it doesn't show them anyone close, only far away. That means they are going to leave to cash in on those sweet extra Blood Points and thus someone has the opportunity for a safe rescue. The people on the Generators, far away, have plenty of time (if they are paying attention) to either counter the Perk or depart for safety. Will your Generator get kicked? Probably. But Generators get kicked all the time; it isn't the end of the world. Moreover, for this Perk to work, the Killer is engaging in chases to get that down and hook. Chases mean the other Survivors could have been finishing Generators. See where that is going?
- Pop only works if the Killer is getting hooks. It isn't passive like Ruin. It means you have an active Killer chasing around the map. This means Survivors can coordinate, move through different Generators getting all of them going to different stages if need be, and earn their own BP in chases (Generators only give you so much). Pop means the Killer will actually take time to go kick a Generator, which is more time to the Survivors to do other things, and depending on how far away they go to kick one, gives more chances for safe rescues. Without Pop, many Killers don't even bother to kick Generators; they just keep running you down.
You need to be careful about confusing insults with accuracy. Not all Killers take this combination, and I assure you that the potent Ranks have a very wide variety of builds. I, myself, run Corrupt Intervention, Ruin, Surveillance, and Play With Your Food. The synergy for me is that any Generator they work goes white when I run them off it, and then gives me a big YELLOW signal when they come back. Information is power, and it is far more effective and nuanced than Barbecue & Chili. Am I braindead for this combination? I certainly waste very little time on searching for my prey. And what about Tinkerer combined with ANY high mobility Killer? What about Pop+Oppression? Killers run different builds to compliment personal play style and there are a lot of different play styles.
If you are suffering badly against Barbecue & Chili + Pop, you clearly need to up your game. It means you aren't taking any of the MANY counters to the Barbecue & Chili, and you and yours are way to reliant on teaming on one Generator rather than spreading out and getting many of them going at once. Stop blaming other people for your personal failings.
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The difference is that those two perks rewards you for making good play, unlike DH, DS, BT etc etc
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Braindead. LMAO
You don't play killer much at high ranks, do you? The amount of juggling you have to do. Hell. when I chase somebody off a gen with pop, I have to make a split-second decision to either use the pop or go for a quick chase. If I do the former, I risk losing the survivor in a tough to catch area. If I do the later, I risk losing potential loss of 20 seconds on a generator. All while keeping track of everything else I need to keep track of.
Brain dead indeed..... go ######### yourself
No counter? You don't understand how to use the fine art of misdirection with auras? You don't understand how to prepare for the incoming hook ahead of time? Who's the brain-dead one here exactly?
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