What makes a match fun? Is it fun for the other side?
While playing killer today, I had one of the most fun matches I've had in DBD in my 1500 hours. The survivors in my opinion were very good, I believe more skilled than me. I was able to get a 4k but only because they didn't do the typical spread out and rush gens as fast as possible strat. They all stayed fairly close together. When I would down one, they would try to work together to body block me or sabo a hook to try to stop me from hooking. One had For the People and pulled off a couple great saves while I was wiping the blood from my blade. One was the typical "hey chase me" survivor and when I would they definitely knew how to loop. But I played smart, knew some of the tricks they were going to try and adapted to get the win. Some people may call them a bully squad, and it's not the first time I've had this kind of match, but this kinda made me realize I enjoy these types of matches and trying to overcome the challenge.
Was it fun for them though? They were a different platform so I couldn't ask. I didn't slug for the 4k, but I found the last one before they found hatch and I killed them because I thought "I worked for this and overcame, I deserve to get all the kills." Did that make them think I was a tryhard? I believe and advocate for having balance but will admit as killer the match usually doesn't feel satisfying with only 1 or 2 kills.
When I play survivor, I have the most fun outplaying the killer whether that be running them for a long time or being able to break chase and get away. But even if I'm doing a good job of running the killer, if my teammates aren't being productive by getting gens done it brings down some of the enjoyment. I don't mind not escaping, but if I'm doing a good job to keep a killer busy and die before most of the gens get done, I usually think it was a bad match. Did they feel that way even though I thought they played well and were a challenge?
I also don't like to just sit on gens while someone else runs the killer the whole match. It is very boring to just hold M1 on a gen the whole time, but I do it because I think if i was running the killer, I would want the others to be doing gens. But if most survivors are like me and find interacting with the killer to be the most fun, how can it be balanced so that we all get to enjoy that and not constantly be the person that sits on gens?
Should I as killer be thinking of that and spreading out my attention even when I have the "hey chase me" survivors in my face?
If I find overcoming a challenging squad to get four kills fun, can it be fun for them if none of them escape?
Should I only worry about myself and my fun or trying to help everyone have fun?
Is there really any way to balance this game so everyone has fun?
P.S. If you decide to comment on this post, I'm not looking for you to individually answer all these questions. Just wondering if people feel it is possible to balance or incentivize the game so both sides have fun (for a majority of people and matches of course, there are always those outliers), if it's not possible so worry about your own fun, or if you think it's already there.
Comments
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I think it depends on the players. For me, I win if I have fun. Maybe that's looping the killer for two minutes, maybe that's me making multiple smart plays as a certain killer. It all depends on the day and match.
For these players, maybe winning is more important to them, but I wouldn't stress it. As long as your playstyle isn't intentionally toxic (Which I presume it's isnt as you're showing care for the other side) then I wouldn't worry too much about if they had fun or not. You should focus on your own fun and play how you want.
Basically, the meaning of fun is unique to each of us. For some its winning, for others its playing perfect and not any less than that, and for some its just play good, regardless of how it ends.
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I think for me it mostly relies on skill level. The most fun matches I have ever played were ones where everyone in the lobby is basically of equal skill. It's bonus points when the killer isn't some horribly OP character and is a more balanced one (hillbilly, demo, oni, etc) and the survivors aren't using items.
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Fun for me is a trial which is engaging and you can build a story or tension within it. Having dramatic set-pieces. Basically, when a trial forms a narrative and gets me drawn in.
It's a bit vague, I know. Only, it's the best way I can word it.
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How do you quantify or qualify that you are playing against others of the same skill level? Do you think how you play on one side you would enjoy going against if on the other?
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It seems to me you are saying if you get immersed in the game during the trial, you had fun. Do you feel those games that happened for you the other side had fun?
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I'd hope so! I certainly don't play in a style to mock or taunt the other side. Basically, you're right about immersion in terms of getting involved in the story of the trial. Every trial has a narrative, but some are moreso toxic than others unfortunately.
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I try to be fun when I play killer but it isn't always appreciated. I was playing scratched mirror Myers the other night, slugged a few, hooked a few, no noed or anything - wasn't out for blood. One of the players was a streamer on twitch, and I watched the video. They seemed to have fun, but then the guy turned around and and started telling them he was obviously being streamed sniped because I seemed to always know where they were, yet never bothered to ask each other why I never hit t2. Like I said, it was fun, but I'll never watch playback videos again because he said some awful things and it just turned me off of the whole thing.
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When people aren't toxic.
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I've played scratched mirror Myers a few times. I had a blast. I've also played against scratched mirror Myers a few times. It was fun as survivor the first time, but after that is just seemed boring to me to go against. I just hold shift w the whole match and don't stay on gens very long so the game seems to just drag on.
I tried playing survivor today. It was so frustrating. Killers patrolling the hook at 4 gens left. Never taking a chase far from the hook. Tunneling one person out of the match as fast as they can. I wanted to dc every one. But also in the back of my head, they are probably like the majority of players, not intending for the match to be unfun but playing in a way that is fun for them.
Is that just the nature of the game? Only one side can have fun at a time? Only 1 or 2 of the 5 can have fun? Should we all just not care about the other 4 and just focus on our own enjoyment?
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What is toxic game play to you? What if what you feel is toxic others don't and want people to play that way?
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Bm'ing. Hitting people on the hook, nodding, flashlight spamming, teabagging. Insulting messages. Things like that.
When people go out of their way to insult and mock others.
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What is considered Bm'ing I find to be objective. I completely get insulting messages. I also get hitting people on the hook as that really doesn't seem to do anything to advance the objectives of the game. Flashlight spamming and nodding I think depends on context. They could be doing it to annoy you just because they want to be toxic. They could also be doing it to get you to chase them or just have fun with them. I've been in a few nodding matches with the opposing faction while playing both sides that I found to be harmless fun. Problem is you are guessing as to intent unless they tell you directly in the end game chat or a message that they were trying to be toxic.
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I find competitive games more fun, i.e. games were both sides are relatively evenly matched.
Hell, I don't even get mad if I lose as Killer and get a 0K if I got 8 hooks, and won lots of chases.
If I lose a game on a busted map to survivors who are lightyears ahead of me, and get 1-3 hooks, I'll probably enjoy that a lot less, especially if the survivors teabag to assert their dominance even more.
Likewise, if I win a game because the survivors I'm playing are completely new, don't know how to loop, and are absolutely massacred at 5 gens, I don't really enjoy those games either.
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I mostly play survivor so in my view it's just seeing if my teammates make good plays and can last in chases. The game can really suck if I get really bad teammates and I had no chance of escaping to begin with because the others can only last 5 seconds in chase or if I lead a really long chase nothing gets done in that time. I can also tell if the killer is equal to my skill level because they will be challenging but not way too overboard, or using tactics that are objectively less skillfull like camping. As a survivor I try not to use OP perks or combos like I never run unbreakable or DS, I would hope the killer somewhat returns the favor by not using iri head or mother-daughter ring, stuff like that.
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I play survivor main, and mostly SWF because I love the camaderie and teamwork.
I personally love games where the killer memes on us or gives us the game, then we go around bloodpoint farming. But my friend in my SWF hates those and doesn't wanna be given a game, reporting all afk killers or people who give him hatch lol (I feel bad for the killers who he reports rip). Yet ANOTHER friend in my SWF will always hate any killer that he thinks is unfair.
Two other notes come to mind when I think of DbD fun:
1. Last night's MMR gave me LONGER matches. I mean like 20min games on average that had me on my toes. Without MMR I have 5-10min matches of the same length. I always wondered if long games are just as fun as short games for those around me. Cuz if it's not fun for the survivors or killer to be locked in a game for so long, I'd want it to go faster so we can get into another game and have more opportunities to make more memories lol.
2. In the games where I get tunneled early, I don't have fun at all. I spent all of my minutes not contributing to the game other than a chase and maybe half a gen. But I'm not the best player, maybe the killer just found it too easy to get me. I try not to let those games bother me, because I end up moving on to play more games. But one night I died early by tunnel 3 games in a row, and it really soured my mood for the first time ever in the 4-5 months I've played. I think fun for me is just being able to be in a game long enough to have a meaningful contribution, whether it's a decent chase or a gen or doing a challenge/daily I had. Usually 9/10 games of mine are fun for me, but getting the 1/10 chance of a unfun game several times in a row makes me wanna step away for the night lol.
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in 90% of cases as long as I don't get hit by bs hits I'm okay. As killer idk some games are just fun for me win or lose.
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Do you play solo survivor more or SWF? If you are on one of those teams that is steam rolling the killer, would you slow down, maybe intentionally lose som chases and give them some hooks?
I play solo so I might be afraid I wouldn’t get unhooked if I did that so I’m not sure if I would sacrifice that much.
What about on killer? If you were destroying a team, would you let up and let them get a few gens done or just get it over with? If you were the survivor in that scenario, would you want the killer to slow up?
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For me personally, I would say length of the match and chases are the most important factors for either side to make it fun. As a survivor I enjoy team work, get involved in few fun chases, saves and I'm good to go. As a killer I enjoy chasing different survivors and get as many hooks as possible. I don't necessarily try to ruin someone's fun and try to be as fair as possible.
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heres what i find fun about the game:
for survivor: running the killer around and getting huge clutches & value out of certain perks is really satisfying.
for killer: not going against toxic survivors, them putting up a decent challenge, running around the map with billy & oni
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