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Should Hillbilly rework by reverted?
Here is a link for vid that presents the issue better than I could ever do myself. https://youtu.be/6D1kZNdUrk8?t=946
Edit: Scott made video on the issue as well: https://youtu.be/li6YfkJUPM4
Almost every person who played the game for some time would say that Hillbilly is one of the most (if not the one) fun killer to play against. Due to his kit one never truly feels that they got downed in bullshit way (unless it's bug). When good Billy predicts you well and curves around the structure at the perfect timing, you most likely feel "Hecc this was pretty good". Compare it with feeling you have when Slinger, Spirit, Nurse or Hag downs you.
Due to his "rework" - which was nerf to literally every aspect of him... barely anyone ever plays him. If you want instadown you go Letherface, if you want mobility you go Demo. His addons are miserable (except for browns and lopro chains) and his overall performance went down the drain.
When playing against newbies he is good (just like literally every killer), but on higher lever he falls off pretty quick. People complained about his charge time addons, which were strong, but all you had to do was just use windows to force m1. I also really dislike the attitude of develepors, who commented that Hillbilly is perfect example of balanced killer, who's chases result in better player winning them... then nerfing him to the ground a week later.
Overheat mechanic is not that harsh, but with lack of charge time addons using chainsaw couple of times in a row is impossible. I think it's good that it is in game, because Billy cannot just mindlessly camp and rev it for ever, but it should be even less harsh so player can actually try using chainsaw in a chase (Feathering especially). What I would like the most, honestly, are cooldown after hit addons making it's way back.
Should Hillbilly rework by reverted? 87 votes
13 votes
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Comments
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
crackhead billy with old tuning guide and insta saw was literally the only issue with him, adding an overheat mechanic to his chainsaw was so unnecessary and the reason why it was added made 0 sense
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
If you'd like to get people's honest opinion, writing a relatively slanted description of the subject matter immediately above the poll is not constructive :)
He was not nerfed in literally every aspect. His base kit is very similar to before. The overheat mechanic is rarely a factor unless you're running engravings; as you said yourself, it's not that harsh. The devs stated they wanted to deal with his problematic add-ons without affecting his balance much, and I feel they achieved that. His add-ons we probably even overnerfed on the whole but his base kit is still strong enough that it's not a concern for balance.
I've never particularly enjoyed playing as or against Hillbilly and these changes did little to change that. I do think he's well balanced, though.
As of late 2020, which was after his nerf, Hillbilly's kill rate was 55% (1% below average) at all ranks and 70% (2% above average) at red rank. Like all killers, he does not fall off at red rank.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
His addons made him too easy before. You didn’t need anytime in his you just threw on charge time and cooldown and it was an easy win.
Honestly the overheat rarely comes into play and to date theres still no killer out there who feels as oppressive as Billy. I face good billys here and there and hes still deadly, he still lands on top of you and starts swinging instadowns. He still manages to cause more tension than other killers could only dream about because his basic kit is so strong and its always available.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
His addons need buffs, and the movement changes reverted back to normal. That is pretty much it. The nerf was also greatly unjustified, literally no one was asking for a billy nerf.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
as someone who used to one trick billy and ran him almost exclusively addonless his base kit was absolutely hit pretty hard I cant even play him anymore, i'll admit partially because im vindictive about them changing his base kit to begin with when literally no one wanted it to touched only his few very problematic addons, but the fact that he's legit less fun to play now is in my opinion completely undeniable, and the fact that billy's pick rates has tanked is plenty evidence of that
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
The only change to the base kit was the overheat mechanic, though. You shouldn't be up against that limit much without engravings and he plays exactly the same until you hit that limit. Still, the add-on nerf was undeniably a nerf. The red rank Billies before were mostly running fast saws and such, but now those add-ons don't exist. His pick rate was higher in the past, yes, but so was his kill rate. In late 2019 he was picked about 8.5% of the time (3-4% above average) at red rank and had a kill rate of ~77% (5-10% above average). In late 2020 he was picked about 3.5% of the time (~1% below average) at red rank and had a kill rate of ~70% (~2% above average).
His pick rate was likely so high before because he was insanely strong with the right add-ons. He was very narrowly behind Freddy for the highest kill rate in the game at red rank. It makes sense that his pick rate would drop now that his add-ons have been nerfed. I don't think the overheat is nearly as big of a factor in his performance hit.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
ill be honest I doubt Im so unique that as someone who never ran add ons and still dropped him that im the only one who dropped him because of the overheat. Ill also note that the new VFX that was added with his rework was also very annoying, but everyone always says that his overheat rarely even comes into play yet pretty much every game after his rework I was actively choosing not to use his chainsaw because otherwise i'd hit his limit which is highly annoying to just have wait and play like normal m1 killer till my overheat goes down. Not sure if I just played differently then most but again hes not as fun as he used to be both with and without add ons.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
I mean, I could be using his saw differently too. I just haven't had issues with it personally and most folks I've talked to haven't been bothered much either. The add-ons on the other hand are definitely a ton weaker. Some people could be turned off by the VFX too but I actually like them!
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
He needs a few addon tweaks..make the trash ones mean something, he doesn't necessarily need charge speed so remove those in favor of more utility and remove the engraving penalties, that way billy can use his addons without unnecessary punishment and he will feel decent again. Biased folks will say he's the same but they're either willfully ignorant or just false , the map reworks have turned against Billy overall as the average pallet count on maps has risen with each rework. And I don't need to explain the game map as it is now do i..? It went from being SLIGHTLY in killer favor to becoming the asylum and Haddonfield put together
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Yes, he should be just like on release
@immortalls96 I miss cooldown after ending chainsaw sprint addons the most
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
Those were nice but not necessary per say
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Yes, he should be just like on release
I'm bumping up, because apparently I'm not the only one who thinks this nerf was unnecessary. Scott just made a video and he points out things: https://youtu.be/li6YfkJUPM4
I like the part when he shows part of the update, when devs show how they think Billy is the best designed killer... so they nerf him xD.
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I don't think my opinion should matter as i never really played him, i don't like playing him at all, for me his chainsaw is super hard to control so when i had to learn a hard-to-play-killer but good in high ranks, my choice went to Nurse which is super fun to play as even when being bad.
I also don' tlike playing against him as for me he has no real counterplay. I would rather play against a Spirit for example ^^
So i will not vote and leave people that truly knows the characters decide ^^
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
"barely anyone ever plays him."
.- Citation needed.
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Yes, he should be just like on release
@Adeloo Spirit has more counterplay than Billy? Okaaaaay, I guess literally every player who plays longer is wrong then xD. Let's agree to disagree here, I will play against anything but Spirit, might be my personal bias here.
@Emeal Check the stats of killer popularity and kill ratios.
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well i didn't say that Spirit has more counterplay ;) just that i have more fun playing against one than against a Billy ^^
but like i said i'm not familiar with playing him, but for me he is like Bubba and pretty easy to use, just need to get close to you, rev his chainsaw and you are down ^^
Post edited by Adeloo on0 -
Yes, he should be just like on release
@adeloo Play Billy then, because Bubba is way, way easier, my dude. Also I don't see how I could have fun playing against something with no counterplay, dunno maybe I'm weird.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
Believe me, he's a lot harder than he looks.
Also flicking with him in loops is difficult and takes lots of skill.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
Right now, Billy is a shell of his former self. He's outclassed by Oni (basically the new Billy), Blight (mobility and curves), and even Bubba (insta-downs).
All he needed was an add-on rework, and that's about it.
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Yes, he should be just like on release
He only needed an addon rework just like huntress now
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
Make it so charge time add-ons dont stack (since insta-saw was evil) and so his add-ons dont do everything [Thompsons Mix had no business reducing charge time and Tuning Guide was well, it was Tuning Guide]
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
Insta-saw was the only unfun thing with old Billy. The rest was completely balanced and fun for both sides. His rework was a complete waste of time.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
Before the change the Hillbilly reigned supreme, it was in 80% of the matches in red ranks, and the reason is that he had everything a killer could wish: instadown, mobility, quick pallet breaking, insane slugging potential... and especially he was very easy to use.
Now his addons are more varied and his base power is still quite strong, since overheating is punishing mostly on edge cases. Personally I think he is in an ok spot.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
I'd say Billy is a healthy mix of those killers. Or those killers took a slice from billy's pie.
Billy always has his power, mobility and instadown, while others only excel at one aspect but better. Which is fair, i think billy is still toptier. And as much as i hated the billy rework at ptb, it has absolutely zero impact right now vs before. Base kit is literally the same and his addons got changed. Dont know why overheat exist, but since it doesnt do anything, it was just a waste of ressources and an addon pass.
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Yes, but his charge time addons should be nerfed
I mean, every old Billy main can agree that the nerf was unnecessary and actually has a heavy impact on him. Overheat made Billy just terrible. If you think Billy is the same, I'd love to see you play him.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
Im an old billy main and i dont think the nerf had a heavy impact on him. Its all subjective. I never use addons on him and i never overheat, so this nerf had exactly zero impact on my gameplay. Zero. None at all. Same killer as before.
But i can imagine the impact on players, who use addons regularly. On the other hand, the whole reworks purpose was an addon pass. So my line of thought is, that these players were used to overpowered addons, not billy himself. Like omegablink nurses who think that nurse is useless now.
I dont know wether billys addons need a buff. Maybe to make them more fun, but since a lot are linked to overheat, its irrelevant anyways. Im much more surprised how people overheat at all and not see flaws in their gameplay.
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I think the biggest nerf the devs ever gave to Billy was adding Blight into the game. Seriously, Blight is objectively better in essentially every way. His mobility is more versatile then Billy's, Blight can use his mobility to easily negate any distance made on him in a chase whereas Billy can only do the same if he has a clear LOS with no obstacles in the way. Billy does have his insta down but it can be incredibly difficult to land on a good Survivor. Meanwhile, a good Blight can get a hit at some tiles even against insanely good survivors. Like Billy, Blight is powerless at certain tiles but that doesn't mean much when you can negate any distance made in mere seconds. So:
- Blight has better mobility
- Blight has an easier time getting downs
- Blight has an easier time negating hold W gamers
At the end of the day, why the hell would any sane person pick Billy over Blight? Even if Billy was reverted completely to how he was prior to his nerfs (Add-ons and all), Blight would still be better in all these categories.
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No, he is balanced and fun right now
Buff him somewhat, with some minor addon changes as well. I'd say probably make him a 120% if he's overheated or something simple. That way there's some incentive to consider overheating while also adding further purpose behind the otherwise pointless mechanic that doesn't do anything. Reverting the overheat mechanic would just burn more development time to remove a mechanic (no matter how useless it may be) from a killer that not a lot of people played, even before it got added.
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