DS nerf = Tunneling/Camping
Since the DS nerf I have not seen one killer respect the perk. I'd say a majority of killers I've gone against at red ranks either camp the hook or they walk away for a bit until a hook save and go right back and tunnel the same survivor, down said survivor, and then immediately pick that survivor up and hook again. Why? Because no survivor is running DS in the state it's in. Then what happens is they give up on struggle hook, especially in solo que. Now, I like to use different builds and most games I don't us DS. If there's a couple of games where I'm getting tunneled I'll throw it on. The DS nerf has led me to hide and wait for the killer to rotate until he finds a survivor because I'm decent at looping but I'm not the best by any means. If I go down I know what will happen...camp or tunneling. Just my thoughts
Comments
-
"I'd say a majority of killers I've gone against at red ranks either camp the hook or they walk away for a bit until a hook save and go right back and tunnel the same survivor, down said survivor, and then immediately pick that survivor up and hook again."
New DS will still prevent this scenario. That being said, I wouldn't mind if DS worked for both hook states to really deter tunneling
7 -
DS was psychological.
I was NEVER an anti-tunnel perk. Still isn't. If a killer wants to tunnel you, DS won't stop them.
The problem is that people THOUGHT it was an anti-tunnel perk. So lots of survivors would use it. Now that it's nerfed, the survivor mindset is "Don't use DS, it's bad now." And lots of killer's mindsets are "No one is using DS, it's bad now."
Now, without as many people using DS, there's more games without an obsession; and the games WITH an obsession will still have tunneling killers anyway because of the new mindset the nerf has given the community.
Even if a killer does get hit with a DS now, they'll realize sooner that 5 seconds doesn't mean much. Scratch marks and blood and sound still exist. And they can still tunnel the survivor. And if a survivor uses it now, they'll notice that it didn't help them, because they're still being tunneled.
DS was never the solution. Now, it's just showing a real problem.
16 -
I've actually gotten more use out of DS now than I ever did before. This time I don't even have to sit on pocket DS waiting to get downed. The killer just pursues me from hook to knife all on their own.
1 -
I've seen a lot of people suggest after the stun the survivor leaves no scratch marks or blood for a few seconds so that killer has to actually hunt that survivor down again.
12 -
well the killer has to look in a certain direction so if you run towards the killer and then go around them they can't see where you are going.
0 -
-
It was indeed wrong of me to use logic in a forum as biased as this one.
8 -
How many times do we have to say this?
If you are actually being tunneled, DS did not change.
Apparently survivors think being able to heal, repair 1/4th of a gen, get chased then go down and still use DS was considered "Tunneling".
So let it be known, if you are unhooked, and the killer at any point goes after a different survivor, You are not being tunneled.
Tunneled is a phrase derived from the phrase Tunnel Vision. Where the killer has such a focused sight on 1 survivor and 1 survivor alone they will ignore all other things to go after that one survivor. Gen about to finish? Nah keep chasing the same survivor.
So when the killer swaps targets, he does not have tunnel vision on 1 survivor, so by extension they are not tunneling.
14 -
You know damn well that doesnt happen in 99 percent of games. Almost 100 percent of the time, the killer may stray a few feet from the hook to watch from a different vantage point then come back to down that same survivor thinking in his mind "thats not tunneling". Ummmm, yeah it is! You think it was a coincidence that they just "happen" to get the same victim downed again,,,really, LOL. This happens every single game I play where a killer main tunnels. When you pass other viable survivors simply to go after the one just unhooked that IS tunneling. If your lucky and running DS then your fine for a while but I have seen worthless killers stay on that same survivor just to get them down again at some point. I see all this because I am running Kindred and we are listening,, and am thinking while we are powering through the gens "here we go again". Then the opposite reaction happens where more and more survivors are running SWF and tbagging and other toxic crap so killers are doing what they do more. It is human psychology and bound to happen because tunneling and camping has been declared "tactics" so to must be gen rushing and SWF who run in a way that sacrifices one of their own each game in order to waste as much of the camping and tunneling killers time while were at the gate by the time the first survivor is dead.
2 -
% 40 of my matches i have not obsession anymore. That is mean if you have bad match, just start tunnel :d This uptade shows us DS was always weak but killers were respecting it but not anymore.
0 -
It happens to me a lot. I had enough of this 10 years old killers... I deleted the game. Now I play HOME SWEET HOME SURVIVE and I’m very happy with it! It’s more balanced. Dbd it’s made just to please the killers, survivors are nothing for this game...it’s impossible to win as a survivor now with so many nerfs and toxic changes.
3 -
I never respected the perk in the first place. If I made the determination that tunneling was the best course of action I'd do it through DS and BT, body blocking anything else.
The only thing about DS before is that it was a massive momentum stopper for no good reason and provided survivors with a very powerful defense while allowing them to progress the game. It could also allow coordinated teams extremely aggressive plays with little risk and little effort for a massive payoff.
Edit: If anything I was more encouraged to tunnel a survivor early, cuz that way I would get rid of DS and wouldn't have to worry about it when it's an actual threat (mid to late game)
1 -
sorry but the argument of "it just psychologically made people maybe sorta kinda sometimes stop tunneling maybe because their was an obsession" is kinda brain dead
4 -
I mean, does that not make it more effective? them not respecting it?
2 -
DS is still anti tunnel. I have hit it more then any other time in my history playing this game. It is still an effective perk. I agree that the return to the hook and tunnel is the new meta for many killers tho. Hopefully with the DS "nerf" we will see the results and possible work on more balance in this regards.
But, they are viable accepted tactics, so in the end you got to get used to them and adjust as needed.
5 -
Killer main but I play both and I'll still eat a DS from time to time as killer. I don't respect it because fewer survivors run it. As a survivor, though, I think it works as intended. I run it usually because I solo queue and get pulled off hook by people NOT running BT and get insta-downed pretty regularly. DS let's me keep going whereas if I didn't have it then my game would end much earlier.
If DS doesn't work for you then you are most definitely NOT getting tunneled.
Plus, OP says that killers will walk away for a bit. I don't camp hook until EGC but if I'm walking away and survivor gets unhooked and they're still in my TR, I'd be a fool to not turn around and go after the both of them (if state of gens is ok). That's just smart killer play when a survivor is dumb enough to unhook when I'm so close. Work smarter, not harder.
2 -
Killers killing you aren't them playing bad in anyway. Survivors love to scream this line but it just doesn't make sense. If you don't want to die then don't get found. If you can't do that then you have perks to help you out of bad situations.
2 -
then be smart and adapt to the killer behaviour. ofc killer will try to take advantage with how the new DS works. Dont start working on a gen unless you know for a fact its safe to do it
0 -
I had no problem with the ds nerf, because it was abuseable, and i never run it anyway, because i never encountered camping/tunneling as much as people claimed.
But i agree that there is a really bad shift in killer playstyle, and camping/tunneling is way too common at the moment.
The solution is just play swf, because they usually can handle it, and steamroll most killers anyway. But i liked the solo experience and the lack of information, because it gave me some tension in this game.
If a key nerf would come while this is not adressed, i think i will try the new alternative some streamers seem to be trying out lately.
0 -
I always thought that DS should deactivate the killers power (momentarily) just like Laurie knocked out Michael in the movie .Cut the timer to like 30-40 seconds and it would now definitely punish killer who are tunneling but ya’ll are not ready for that conversation.
1 -
The game's meta is shifting, so the mindset of the community. Now it's more profitable for a killer to funnel rather than go for the healthy survivor since they get 1 person off the game quickly. And this should be an option, but I think they shouldn't get that rewarded for doing that.
0 -
I get to use it most games now and it usually costs the killer multiple gens.
Survivors have done this to themselves and need to just shut up and sit in a corner. either use the perk or make the game harder for yourself.
It doesn't need a buff. it doesn't need an auto obsession USE THE PERK AND KILLERS CAN'T TUNNEL YOU!
All this nerf has done is reveal that survivor mains think tunnelling = chasing me any time after i am hooked once.
2 -
The only thing I'd change now is to make there always be an obsession in-game, even if no one took an obsession perk.
When I down someone a second time, I always find myself glancing over to the names. No obsession? No problem. Pick up, hook again. Knowing someone doesn't have DS does lead to reductive play and encourages tunneling. Before, it was never an issue - maybe 1 in 50 games would have no obsession. Now it's significantly more common.
If there's an obsession, I know I'm taking a risk.
0 -
you know you can quite easily fix that problem by equipping DS.
i dont get why so many complain about "DS being useless", when they say in the same sentence that the root of all problems is not DS being too weak, but the fact that no one runs it anymore.
just... equip the perk. are you going to stun the killer every match? no. is that the main strength of the perk? also no.
its a perk that forces "good" behavior onto a killer. if you didnt get to use DS at any point, that means you never got tunneled, which means the fact you got an obsession made the killer too scared of the consequences of tunneling, which means DS still did its job and wasnt a wasted perk slot.
imho the most hurtful thing to DS right now is the mindset so many portrait that says "if i didnt get the stun, the perk was worthless" - because this mindset ignores away all the passive benefits the perk brings and only focusses on one, rather small, aspect of the perk.
2 -
I certainly don't respect it any more. Most people have stopped using it because they can't abuse it, so I'm just gonna go ahead and play however I want, and if I get DS'd then it's because I deserve it.
Which isn't to say I automatically tunnel people, but neither do I go out of my way to let them leave. And if they get mad... Maybe run the perk that 3/4 people were bringing into my trials only a few weeks ago.
0 -
tunneling and camping was going on BEFORE the DS nerf and if a killer really wanted you dead they'd just slug you for 60 seconds anyways.
Now everyone knows DS was rarely used for anti tunneling and it was abused to be an offensive perk not a defensive perk.
the nerf does the exact same thing it did before, stop tunneling. Now it just can't be abused which is what everyone wants.
0 -
That aint problem at all if u got tunelled u will get to use ds and punish killer for it and for players who don't use if anymore but did 99% of games before nerf just says a lot about how they used it for abuse not tunelling
0 -
If you don't want to get tunneled, run DS. If you don't want people getting camped, run BT. If you have time to work on a gen, break a totem, heal, or really anything that isn't running from the killer after getting unhooked, you are not being tunneled.
1 -
You know, the fact that people are complaining they aren't getting value from a perk they didn't even equip because there are no obsessions in lobbies anymore says a lot about how bonkers busted old DS was.
Like... the perk was so strong its mere existence effectively protected the entire team with it because of how violently and dramatically it altered killer behavior and disempowered them to punish really blatantly stupid plays.
6 -
Exactly. If i run into a survivor on a gen i am not going to just turn around and walk away.
2 -
What about them?
Are you ok?
0 -
The situation you referred to though would still mean ds would work the same as always because they're being actually tunnelled.
The only people that complain about the nerf and don't run it anymore are the ones who ran to gens and for saves because they had god mode for a min after getting unhooked.
0 -
Survivors: Camping and tunneling is not fun
Devs: Nerfs DS and buffs another killer
0 -
id say ds has been nerfed to a point where it could use a buff.
even though its supposed to be an anti tunneling perk i still think it should get buffs to be more effective
with current ds the killer can just eat it and continue chasing you
i would make it so:
stun duration increased to 7 seconds so the killer cant see where youre going (the animation of getting off the killers shoulders already eats up a solid second so why not)
no scratch marks for the duration of the stun so he cant immediately get back on your track
no pools of blood for the duration of the stun
20% haste bonus for the duration of the stun
0 -
"with the current DS the killer can just eat it and continue chasing you" killers could do that with the old DS aswell, that is a really poor argument. Also 5 seconds is more than enough, 7 seconds would be way to strong. 2 bonus seconds doesn't sound like much but this is basically 50% bonus stun duration. I would be okay with no scratches and no pools of blood but no haste bonus.
1 -
Unpopular opinion. If you unhook someone before the killer is out of range AND you don't make sure the killer sees you but you hide and leave a whimpering survivor out in the open after the killer didn't see anyone on the way out, YOU are the problem. Not the killer. The killer didn't see anyone so he went back to 2 guaranteed survivors. If I see the unhooker, I'll go for them. If I DON'T, and I see the screamer, why would I just leave THAT PERSON to wander around while losing pressure and HOPE that I find someone else when I could down them again and immediately regain more pressure? I see a lot of posts of tunneling but never anyone who is there to admit that they just hid once the killer came back or immediately unhooking the survivor in front of the killer just because.
DS does what it's supposed to do. Gives you a second chance at life. Repeatedly getting free escapes because your teammates are ######### or you suck at looping is bad game design. Don't like getting tunneled? Simple. Get good at looping, don't play the game or hope your teammates don't screw you (very often).
1 -
You cannot stop a killer from tunneling if they really want to. Even before the nerf I saw killers tunnel every other game.
1 -
I've been saying that for years. If a killer wants you, he WILL get you, even if it means throwing a match.
0 -
maybe 6 seconds or something like that. as i said the animation already eats up a second. yeah maybe the haste bonus is a bit overkill.
0 -
Quentinionz
0 -
So you're saying that because DS got nerfed, less people are running it and more killers are putting themselves in a position where running decisive strike would be useful?
Just run Decisive Strike then. I fail to see the problem with this situation.
1
