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Why is SWF hated?
Til this day I still don’t see why SWF is so hated and looked down upon. As someone who used to 4 man SWF EVERYDAY I can definitely say that it’s the best way to make sure you’re enjoying your matches. I don’t SWF anymore but I talked to someone from my OG group and I’m gonna get back into it. Solo has just been a pain. From teammates farming, killers tunneling, teammates hiding in corners, teammates lasting 8 seconds in chase, constant Stridor spirits, pyramid heads, deathslingers, it’s no wonder why people choose to SWF. I feel like people shouldn’t be complaining about 4 people who just want to talk and play the game together. What are your thoughts on SWF?
Comments
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Because the game was design for solo in mind. SWF get the advantage of multiple information perk so they can easily optimize what they're doing. It also help in other way, making some perk even better.
eg:
Deliverance in a group of 4 solo isn't really strong since you'll often have one guy going for you, but in a SWF where all survivor know the guy who got hook have Deliverance activate completely negate the pressure the killer has & everyone can stay on their gen.
Even a bad SWF can give trouble to an ok killer just by having so much information about the killer.
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Because its broken the games balance in such a mostly irreparable way. This games balanced around solos but swf is the most commonly played survivors. A good swf team can beat out any killer but nurse and spirit and reach the .1 percent of mmr where you'll only see those 2. They get so much info for free and break the boundaries of perks like object of obsession giving the entire team free wall hacks.
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Cause majority of killers want their games to be a walk on the beach with 0 effort
while I am the opposite and only want to verse SWF. I see no way for one to get better at the game unless they actually go against teams that knows what they are doing, you can sure get good solo lobbies when you play killer but that's rarer than "death squads"
people also overestimate SWF, they have comms but trust me, most SWF does not comms with each other correctly. I played with so many parties where people always forget to call out where the killer is, who the killer is chasing, where he is going, what gen they are kicking. There is a large difference between an SWF that has comms and an SWF that use comms.
off-topic: I cant wait for MMR to be implemented for this one reason.
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I agree, solo queue is just a pain in the ass a lot. The thing is, SWF can be pretty unbalanced at times. That's why I want solo queue to be just as balanced as SWF, butttttt buff all killers' kits to balance it out.
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Because it can be very unfun as killer.
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I think it's a combination of things. Chief among them, 1) It's easier to blame SWF for poor results than to evaluate your play, and 2) It makes intuitive sense that players who can communicate should play better than players who can't. There are of course other factors at play that can cause SWF to not perform as well as people might think, but the general idea makes a lot of sense.
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Cause when im walking towards somebody I don't need you telling your buddy hes coming your direction. Its bs. You already got a heartbeat and a giant red glow. I dont need somebody telling you my every location.
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Ignoring the first part: Yes but when you do get that god team you the power of swf shows itself eclipsing every killer except for 2. Even the best nurses against a very good swf has to slug the entire team pretty much. This is the problem people had with the mmr. Say im a very good michael myers one of the best in the world. I can go on a win streak raising my mmr higher and higher. But eventually ill get that god team and lose. Why? Because Michael doesnt have the power to back up my skill like spirit and nurse do and just has to many disadvantages. Meanwhile no matter how high i raise my mmr as nurse and spirit i at least have a chance. This still falls back to swf being the cause though. If solos and swf always had about the same info and we balanced accordingly wed get diversity at the highest level of play.
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A couple issues not mentioned is matchmaking already being a pain but it’s worse with swf. A lot of mid to low tier killers being stuck with high ranks with one low rank survivor either their friend starting to play or smurf. It just doesn’t seem fair to go against teams with significantly more hours in the game than a killer with >40 hours.
theres also the bully squads that use this mm to their advantage. Having switched to PC to practice m+keyboard. I’ve gotten muliyple purple/red rank + 1 r20 swf all with flashlights etc. I can’t imagine a new killer would want to stick around even having to deal with that.
I think it would solve a lot of problems having a sbm active plus stricter rules on keeping these types of squads out of mid/low ranks.
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Because they basically get all the information perks for free without having to equip them, letting them equip powerful perks like Dead Hard, Iron Will, BT, Unbreakable, etc. in slots that would be going towards those info perks without voice chat. Blindness and stealth killers become way weaker.
There also seems to be an effect of solo teammates are bad -> this causes any decent survivors to get fed up and only play SWF -> solo teammates are more likely to be bad while SWF teams are more likely to be full of good survivors because the good ones stop playing solo and every person you bring into a SWF is one less spot a bad solo can occupy.
Also matchmaking is really whack if you play SWF with people outside your rank.
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Don't mind SWF. I play myself at times with my friends. But I will say it definitely is massive advantage vs playing solo. The communication part is what people don't like, not the SWF.
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Because a lot of them are very toxic, in game and post game. Or at least that's my personal take. If i get a 0k but everyone is cool i have no issues whatsoever,its up to me to play better.
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swf groups can be toxic, swf groups have perks like kindred or bond as a basekit, 4 toolboxes with brand new parts can be really strong
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It's not that killer want easy 4k, the game was balance around solo and only them.
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So SWF isn't really the massive problem people seem to make it out as, that said however you can't deny just how much easier this game is when you are on coms within a team.
The argument could be made that being able to communicate directly as a coordinated team can render the game almost an impossible endeavor for a large number killer players. When you mix in some perks that can share information and you have a scenario that can border on broken in terms of team coordination.
This potential ramp up in game difficulty for one side creates a lot of resentment. This is not helped by poor matchmaking and you have a scenario where casual mid-range killers (probably the majority of the player base lets be honest, though I have no real data on that), have a game where they basically get 1 hook and spend the rest of the time just running around feeling useless.
Add with how unpleasant this community can be and you have a team of prats generally being obnoxious in the face of other players and then hurling abuse at them for what was a grossly one sided set up to begin with.
Not every SWF is like this in fact I'd say most aren't, but you get enough of them that you start to think "I don't like SWF" They then become the culprit of all the game's ills and an easy scapegoat anytime you have a bad game.
"That game sucked it must have been a toxic SWF on coms rather than my own mistakes"
When my group plays online we play without coms, its made the game more fun overall as it can be too easy to coordinate and outplay the killer when you have constant updates from your teammates in real time. It takes some mad killer skills to counter that, which most of the player base (myself included) don't really possess or at least can't be motivated to pull out of the bag every time you face a SWF team.
There is nothing wrong with gaming with your friends but you gotta understand how one sided it may be in this scenario.
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the problem is not the swf it is the possibility of using software to be able to discuss during the game,
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SWF is extremely OP and the game has no balance with it in mind. Also SWFs have a bit of a reputation for being narcacists and also toxic sooo.
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some killer mains can't accept that the game actually is balanced around swf. they think 2 kills is a loss and not a normal balanced draw, then complain because someone had a key or whatever. just ignore them.
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One of the best ways to find out how unbalanced a good SWF can be is to play killer against them in high ranks. Of course it's going to be fun to play in a full bully squad on comms, but it ensures that the killer is going to have an awful and tilting match (especially on weaker killers). It's only 'fair' to play solos, even if you end up with bad teammates, because at least both sides are equally disadvantaged. And a large majority of SWFs feel entitled to escape and be toxic to the killer.
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People have it in their minds that because SWF are able to communicate, they therefore can see out of each others eyes at all times.
This isn't the case most of the time. Communication is as much of a skill as playing the game itself, and most SWFs are simply friends having fun together, not tryhards trying to optimise strategies.
People regularly like to make judgements based on vary little or unsubstatial information. "Oh they were rescued right when I wasn't looking they must be a SWF" "they're clearly working together, I can tell by their movement", etc. This leads to badly informed confirmation bias, to which point killers come away from every match they struggled in completely convinced that they faced a SWF, and every match they did well in completely discounting the possibility that it was a SWF.
In my experience, most players actually play more efficiently and with more focus when they play solo. And it's when I've been playing solo that I get accused of being in a SWF the most.
That's not to say there aren't some super effective, tryhard SWFs out there, who do have their communication down to an art and use it to its full effect, but I'm pretty sure they're a minority.
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because people want to blame things other than their own skill
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Because the majority of Killers in this game are bad. And instead of accepting that they are the fault they are losing games, they blame other things. SWF the most prominent one. And even if the team are 4 Solos, they just pretend it was an SWF, because SWFs are COMPLETELY unbeatable, as we know.
Like, two people bodyblock for the injured guy at the gates? Must be SWF. Because Solos will never ever know what to do in this situation. One guy gets chased and others are doing Gens? SWF! The guy getting chased told them to do Gens. Because Solo Survivors will never do Gens unless someone tells them to do them.
SWF is just a scapegoat for bad Killers.
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"Cause majority of killers want their games to be a walk on the beach with 0 effort "
I want to play against decent solos.
I don't want to play against unfair SWF.
I would be fine with SWF if it wasn't for the fact this game isn't balanced around it and killers constantly getting nerfed and cannot coimpete with SWF using comms
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ah yes.
tell me how a killer can counter comm support?
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once you get to red you'll always come across SWF with excellent communication
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Being good at the game lol
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Have done thanks. Red Ranks aren't the majority of the game, and SWFs aren't the majority of Red Rank games.
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you can be good at the game and still get steamrolled by SWF with comms.
How do you counter comms?
All killers have counterplay. 90% of killer perks have counterplay.
How do you ######### counter comms?
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Expect to get destroyed every now and then.
Other than that, git gud.
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SWF have so much information and the game is designed with the lack of informations the survivors should have.
That's why Spirit is basically hated: she gives 0 informations, the swf doesn't know who she's chasing, what she is doing etc.
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You still haven't answered me.
How do you counter comms?
This game is all about counterplay and yet comms have no counterplay.
So comms are essentially a 5th free perk to survivors. It replaces the need for several survivor perks allowing them to maximize their builds with DS, UB, BT, DH instead of wasting slots for aura reading.
Comms also counters killer perks like knock out.
So how is comms at all fair?
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Just get better at the game lol I saw you play you have like 300 hours and you're still bad at the game and you cry and cry when you don't get what you want
I'm sorry if I sound rude but you need to understand that not everything is about you, consider that you need to play better. Git gud.
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Well, I played as SWF when started this game and got rank 1 as surv, it was very fun for me and I really don't see an issue with the fact that we want to play and have fun with our friends and have a good laugh out of it.
With that said, please don't mix the points, the fact that a lot of killers complain about SWF is not because killers want the game to be "unfun" for the survivor or because they want it to remove the options for players to have fun with friends. When you look at the most arguments (ignoring the trolls) you see that both solo survivors and killers complain that SWF get some sort of "buff" when you compare it to the solo survivor.
So most of the ppl that are not trolling here and just spitting things like (The killers should get better - as if the issue is the lack of skill instead of a game design issue, or that the SWF must be banned/nerfed - as if the killer who say this doesnt see that this will cause game drop), are asking for a buff on solo ranks survivors to gain the level of information/coordination you have with SWF + buff on weaker killers that will be at disavantage and to prevent you to see only Nurse/Spirit on the queue.
Please, ignore the trolls and hate from some comments (including in this section), be open minded as a player and if you want, try to play some games as a killer until you get to the red ranks, so you will get a better vision from the game as a whole.
And finnaly, all games should be fun/fair for both sides, so dont take criticism to the game as a criticism to you or your friends, and don't take complains as only "cry from the ohter side" because this should not be polarized.
Hope you have a great week, play with friends and have fun :)
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by playing better than them
unless its a really sweaty top 4 tournament squad you can beat any team you go against
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That's not how you counter comm support.
tell me how a killer can counter comm support?
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You can't tell me how to counter comms because there is no counter.
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i want to know to how a killer can counter comms
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Rank 9 devotion 1 with 200 hours btw probably watches tru3ta1ent lol
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trick one player and they feed false info to the other 3. walk out of los of the survivor you just hooked and then swerve into a different direction, that survivor's just lied to his friends. works best on stealth killers which, by the way, your profile picture is one of them. you play a stealth killer and you don't know how to trick people?
instead of being patient you just kept asking the same question over and over again, then because noone wanted to answer you during your tantrum, you decided you were right. the same way you decided every game in red rank is a swf when it's literally not. you can't just choose how you think things work and then sit there and pout whenever anyone tries to tell you to maybe keep an open mind.
if you were inventive, you'd have figured out how to counter comms yourself. your lack of inventiveness is why you can't stand swf lobbies, because you have Decided how you're going to play a match and anything that stops you playing in that manner needs to be nerfed. you're sitting there pouting.
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I'm almost devotion 3 now
and if you actually watched my streams I was rank 4 and purposely deranked because I'm tired of stressing out over 4 player red SWF with stacked perks
SO HOW DO YOU ######### COUNTER COMMS?
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I mean regardless of your anecdotal experience, most SWFs in voice chat will usually say little things that greatly increase the efficiency of the team.
Stuff like "killer is chasing me" "killer stopped chasing me" "I'll get the hook save" "I'm on the gen by the hill if you want to heal" are actually a pretty big deal in a game that is balanced around not knowing what your teammates are doing without giving up perk slots.
Ex: if nobody brought Kindred and the killer just hooked someone, with voice chat you can say that you're getting the save and the other survivor that isn't being chased would stay on a gen, buying probably somewhere around 10-20 seconds when you include the time to run to the hook and to another gen. Without it, it's possible neither of you get the save for half of the hook state before realizing the other isn't saving and then both run to the hook. Little things like that add up a lot throughout the match.
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Almost devotion 3, still bad at DBD. Are you streaming today? Would love to watch you play.
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He's obvious troll so dont respond to him becuse you give him attention that he wants
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It's hard to believe that he's a troll. The way he acts and the fact that he has a dedicated Twitch channel where he actually talks and uses his webcam. I understand why we believe Sluzzy is a troll, but this man is on a different level. If he is a troll, then damn I'll give him credit, but I'm sticking to my guns.
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If you go through the thread and others you can see lot of the spite that the mention of SWF creates.
You have killer biased players crying foul because they are either
- tired of toxic groups or claim all groups are toxic
- can't or don't want to deal with the difficulty of a coordinated group of survivors
- need to massage their ego after a loss by claiming unfair SWF
- mistake all coordinated play for SWF even though as solo with experience its not hard to see what you need to do
- blame swf rather than looking at their own mistakes game wise.
Then you've got all these survivor biased players posting
- The typical 'Git Gud" posts, sometimes veiled as a sentence of friendly advice but read between the lines
- solo is horrible so why not swf
- given how horrible solo is it justifies swf in all forms even obnoxious bully groups
- killers only want easy games
- "Not all SWF" post where people who play with friends are tired of being the scapegoats for bad behaved players in general grouped or otherwise
Basically as I've said most swf groups aren't toxic, there to bully you or unpleasant to play against. In fact many are overly altruistic and get killed trying to group rush a hook while not focusing on their objective.
However the increased coordination between players, compounded by folks on coms, can greatly ramp up the difficulty for one half of the player base. To the point it can feel completely futile to play against it. Not all players are going to want this level of ramp up (I personally don't seek it out being a casual player) and many others will use it as an excuse not to improve.
Its also a tool used by more obnoxious players to improve their chances of successfully griefing other players in game.
These things combined make SWF groups a much maligned scape goat for the majority of complaints on both sides of the board.
There are some legitimate balance issues surrounding it though but how do you curb them without really screwing over solo players, its a tricky one.
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follow me and find out
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My god so many SWF hate posts 😂
Is this by the same guy?
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I don't know if I'm tricking someone if I can't hear what they are saying through comms.
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/926510102
Here, skip to 18:35 😂
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Yeah I remember that lol, I laughed my ass off for 3 minutes straight.
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