Don't you just LOVE it when your hex totems get cleansed 2 seconds into the game??
LOL I mean it dosen't even make me mad I just laugh it off. I always expect ruin to be broken early because it's way more harder to pop gens so someone has to hunt for it.
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It's even funnier when BOTH ruin and undying get cleansed and at the same time. Funny how they keep adding perks to help survivors find totems.
- I-if you don't want 4 gens to pop at once when the game starts use perks to slow down the game!!!!!
- Oh, oopsie didoopsie haha you picked ruin, you picked an RNG perk so enjoy playing with 3 perks now, not my problem!!
I just proceed to camp and tunnel when they break my hex, Haunted Grounds shouldn't even be a thing, every survivor who destroys an hex perk should become immediatly exposed for the next 60 seconds. Survivors get perks that stun the killer, ruin his plays and save them from mistakes but killers can't even have a match with 4 perks.
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Hex perks offer extremely powerful effects at the cost of them being temporary.
You know the risk, yet you took it anyway, so it's on you.
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exactly that's on the killer.
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What powerful effect? Not having the game end in 2 minutes?
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It's why everyone has started using Ruin AND Pop.
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You know the risk and you took it, if it backfired is on you.
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60 seconds of Exposed.
200% gen regression.
Instant downs and instant mori's.
Blocking pallets.
Blocking windows.
Totem touching info.
Instant downs and speed boost.
Aura blindness.
Post-totem cleanse aura reading on everyone
Difficult skill checks and increased penalty
Keeping one of the aforementioned perks alive.
Those effects.
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The only strong one there is Devour Hope, which requires you to hook people and run away from the hook as fast as possible. None of the other ones are "powerful effects". Not that i'm surprised survivor mains finds Hex Ruin such a powerful perk, after all, it ruins their gen repair simulator gameplay.
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Ruin is incredibly powerful, why else would you take it :)
Undying is good because other Hex perks are good.
Devour is good.
NOED is good.
Haunted Grounds is good.
Huntress Lullaby is good.
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- Ruin is incredibly powerful, why else would you take it :)
Literally the only way to slow down the game. I take it because the game is not balanced :).
- Undying
The aura reveal is pretty meh, the only reason people take it it's because hex spawns are trash.
- Devour is good.
Only one that's good. And it still gets destroyed immediatly.
- NOED is good.
It's trash.
- Haunted Grounds is good.
It's super trash and there are way better perks that are with you the whole game and not for just 60 seconds WHEN someone decides to destroy it, see Superstar.
- Huntress Lullaby is good.
Lol, no.
Love how you had to cut your list by half though because you know all the other ones, like the one that causes blindess or reveals people for 10 seconds when they feel like destroying it are trash.
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When exactly was the last time they added a totem hunting perk? Because I think Detective's Hunch was added a long time ago, and I suspect Small Game preceded it.
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Have you ever played against a killer with a hex perk on an indoor map?
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Have you tried to find totems on Midwich or the Game?
It's all RNG.
If Ruin is up for 4 minutes, you'd be hard-pressed to lose
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Firstly, you are needlessly aggressive towards people who disagree with you. Seems to be a trend recently.
Secondly, your list:
- Ruin is not even close to the only way to slow the game down. PGTW, Corrupt and Surge can all do the job just fine.
- Undying's aura reveal is useful, but not extremely good. So, I agree.
- NOED is definitely good. Instant downs until the totem is broken in the EndGame? Pretty good.
- Haunted Grounds is 60 seconds of instant downs AND it can protect your other totems, depending on RNG.
- Huntress Lullaby can absolutely screw with players, and it can force them to play more attention to the gens, ignoring their surroundings.
I removed half the list because those perks did not directly relate to game slowdown. The only Hex perks that are actually bad are Third Seal and Blood Favor.
Just because you have trouble winning games and using perks effectively doesn't mean they are bad :)
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It's actually about 70/30 in my experience.
Sometimes you get bad spots, other times you get god spots. I usually get decent spots. Hex perks aren't supposed to be up for the whole game.
Badham has some great spots, new Coldwind does too, Autohaven has some good one's, MacMillan does too.
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I just use totems when I have Saloon, Swamp or Midwich offerings, the rest of maps are just trash totem spawns, if your ruin works more than 2 mins Its a surprising event like Halley Comet, once every 76 games.
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5/6 of my last games have had Ruin stay up for 4+ minutes.
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This is why I refuse to use hex perks. The risk is too high and plus imo they're kinda crap. Except Haunted.
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I believe he understands the risk.
It's more to due with how they can get cleansed super quick. It's pretty ridiculous to see your totem get taken out practically instantly. Again, we understand the risk, but it shouldn't be that ridiculous.
I seen many players suggest that Hex Perks light a totem the moment someone is cursed by it. For Huntress Lullaby, you would get cursed once it has a token or you failed a skill check (regression penalty). I know it curses the survivor the moment they get a skill check, but that shouldn't be the case unless the above is happening.
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There are survivors like me that use Inner Strength most matches, and once upon a time I always equipped Detective's Hunch. I gradually became familiar with where totems could possibly spawn on most maps. Now I don't need to run DH anymore to find most of them. My point is, maybe sometimes they spawn in obvious places, but it's also possible a survivor actively looks for them like me.
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Yeah, that's why I stated "sometimes"
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I call them hackers since it takes more than 2 seconds to cleanse. Lol
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Me: *laugh as a pop goes the weasel user/ corrupt intervention user*
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You're definitely trolling. If you think out of all those perks the only strong one is Devour Hope, you don't play survivor at all. and I'm saying that as a killer main who plays both sides.
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Here's an idea: Don't run hex perks and they won't get deactivated by survivors. *Taps head*
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- Firstly, you are needlessly aggressive towards people who disagree with you.
- Just because you have trouble winning games and using perks effectively doesn't mean they are bad :)
Ah, a survivor main who also loves projecting. How... common.
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Its the gamble you take with a perk that relys on RNG or endgame. If a survivor takes two perks for the end-game they are gambling that they will make it to the end-game and that it will provide enough of a boost to secure the escape. They may end up getting into chases constantly meaning their two other perks meant to help repair become a deficit potentially leaving them with no perks for the situation. Its the same with Killers for every successful Ruin game there's another game where its a complete failure. If you don't want to deal with RNG don't use the perk you'll have better and more consistent games.
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Did you seriously compare perks that completly rely on your skill, since it's up to YOU to make it to the endgame, to perks which can be disabled for the entire match in the very first 16 seconds because a survivor spawned right next to it?
Skill and luck are very different things. But looking at survivor players i'm not surprised the only way they have of winning is getting lucky, seems getting good is too much to ask
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MacMillan also has totems that spawn in very good spots, tucked away in corners of loops. Badham has some bangers as well, hiding in hedge pockets.
I honestly haven't had a totem cleansed in the first minute in a while. It does happen, but to say it's 95% is blatantly wrong.
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I don't think that's a terrible idea.
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Calling me a Survivor main is like calling @Lord_Tony a Survivor main.
Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm a "X main."
It hurts your argument when you throw things around like that since a lot of people know that I pride myself on playing 50/50, that way I do not lean too far to one side :D
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Yes, yes I did. Because while the perk strengths are different they do rely upon similar conditions. No matter how you may want it there's no way Hex: Ruin can become a permanent perk without said perk being utterly gutted, or ruining any form of perk variety for Killers and making the game obnoxious for survivors. It has to have the ability to be destroyed for it to stay as it is, and yeah both Killers and Survivors get bad RNG sometimes killers get hit with god tier loop placements that allow the survivors to have a great deal of leniency and other times killers get lucky and survivors have to deal with dead-zones, survs can get nothing from all the chests in four different lobbies, but in the next round get an ultra rare item on the first chest
That is the thing you have to accept when you play this game, because the maps change, the tiles change, generator, killer, and survivor spawn placements change, its all stuff that both sides have to deal with and what both sides benefit and suffer from. Yeah it sucks when a Hex gets destroyed, I know I've used Devour with grounds and watched devour go bloop while haunted grounds remained entirely untouched for the whole game, oftentimes its just out of our control. Now could the spawn placements be improved, of course. Survs shouldn't spawn right next to them nor should hexes spawn out in the open on a mountain. Changes such as that would be all fair and dandy to me
And as for you, you once again show the bias you have in this argument. You complain about Survs being "entitled, short-sighted, relying on luck" but then go on and say survs are so terrible "They can only win through luck" any arguments you have even those founded and valid are diminished when you come at it from the wrong stance. When that happens all you become is a knee-jerk reactionary, because the way you see problems is essential to creating a lasting solution, (I.e finding the root of it and accounting for the ripples caused by the change). For an (exaggerated) example, if you think the Earth is not flat you would be correct, but if you believe the world is a square you are wrong even though you were right about the one thing.
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Thank you for not jumping to conclusions of me wanting totems to last all game, I just want to remove extreme scenarios or make them extremely rare.
Just like how survivors completing generators before the killer could defend them was ridiculous, this is the same thing. At least have the Hex Perk curse someone or make token progress before it can be seen and destroyed, give it a chance to even exist.
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You wrote a whole wall of text to dance around the whole "Skill =/ Luck" and insists if a survivor gets to the endgame it's because of "loop placement" and that somehow is equal to a survivor spawning right next to an hex?
If a survivor gets to the end game, they were good or the killer was bad. It wasn't because of luck, it was because of the actual skill of the players. You don't complete generators because of luck and you don't say alive because of luck. You need to know how to loop, hide, etc. And boom, Adrenaline is on. They put work on staying alive and were rewarded for it.
The killer meanwhile puts a perk on and, with no way for him to stop the survivors, it gets destroyed in the very first 12 seconds of the match.
If a survivor didn't get to use Haste or Adrenaline, he sucked.
If a killer didn't get to use Hex Ruin, his "luck" sucked.
There is a huge difference between those two and any game that has one side win because of luck is a bad game, and bad games should be fixed. But again, survivors don't want it to be fixed. They don't wanna spend effort searching for the hex, it's better to just spawn right next to it. Hence why so many people cry about NOED and just leave whoever got caught behind instead of looking for the totem.
It's hilarious how when it comes to hexes, survivors immediatly drop the "git gud" they say whenever a killer talks about any other issue, and instead they say "deal with it and let me win".
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I would disagree with the statement that hex perks offer extremely powerful effects.
Honestly, the only one that is extremely problematic for the survivors is Devour Hope, and that one still gets broken before its worth anything. Really, there's only a handful of hex perks that people tend to say are really good because there are just as many stinkers as there are good ones.
Hex: Retribution is not really that great on its own; yeah, you see the survivors for a few seconds when it's broken, but that's only a one time use and you could get similar benefits with BBQ and Chilli with several times the frequency. Also, the oblivious status effect when cleansing dull totems isn't that great either; unless you're right next to them when they do it and you hear it, it's not worth much. Plus, this totem is only good with other totems like Haunted Grounds, but even then you're sacrificing two perk slots for one or two potential insta-downs so its barely worth it.
I feel like I don't need to explain why Hex: The Third Seal sucks so bad, but in summary, Blindness is not that useful. Next,
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt is only decent with other hex totems, otherwise its useless. Even then, most survivors will run away when they notice you're approaching due to the notification you get and they learn to even catch sneaky killers like ghostface or pig so you'll most likely not catch them in the act a lot of the time and just waste your own time.
Hex: Undying is also highly dependent on whether or not you have other hex totems, because on its super average on its own; sure you see survivors' auras when near a dull totem, but smart survivors will pick up on it sooner or later.
(Honestly, any hexes that depend on other hexes are ones I consider rather mid. You're wasting 2+ perk slots and betting on one outcome, and that's a really huge risk with a decently-high reward.)
Hex: Huntress Lullaby is a toss-up and is completely reliant on whether the survivors know how to do skill checks well. If they're somewhat inexperienced and need the sound cue to do them well, then this is actually pretty decent for the first two or three minutes it does anything. If the survivors know how to do skill checks reliably (especially great skill checks) and have good reflexes, well you're kinda boned. I wouldn't call this one super powerful because of this fact.
Hex: Crowd Control is meh. It's basically Bamboozle, but survivors initiate it instead of killers. This is good against the type of survivors who try to course-correct a bad vault, but that's pretty much it. I haven't had much experience with it, but for now, it's meh.
Hex: Blood Favor is absolute garbage unless maybe if you pair it with STBFL, especially with the cooldown. 'Nuff said.
Hex: Haunted Grounds is inconsistent; sometimes you can get a one or a few downs from it, and other times it does absolutely nothing. And again, this perk is only better with other hex perks.
This leaves NOED, Devour Hope, and Ruin.
NOED is NOED. We all know its a crutch perk. We all know its pretty damn powerful. I feel I don't need to explain why this perk is a little broken.
Devour Hope is pretty good, although I've noticed that once insta-downs start happening, the game grinds to a halt until its broken, so unless you plan on camping the hell out of that hex totem and letting other people do gens, be my guest, but it's gonna only be good for maybe one or two downs before it is broken, if it even gets to that point.
Ruin is pretty damn good, but I feel it isn't super broken. It regresses the gens at a quicker rate, yeah, but it doesn't make gen rush impossible. If it was at 300% or 400% regression, hell even 250%, I would agree with you to some extent, but it's not as crazy as it could be.
Tbh, hex perks aren't crazy strong; these last three are really good, don't get me wrong, but I feel many of them aren't the worst things to go against. Survivors have really strong perks like Decisive Strike or Borrowed Time or Deadhard (even though sprint burst is better in some cases) that can really change the flow of a game; it can decide whether a survivor is going to get hooked a second/third time or whether they pallette loop you for however much longer. The fact that survivors can have really damn good perks while some of these really bad to pretty damn good perks that killers have are locked off into that temporary category can be really annoying, especially when survivors don't have them or something similar. I think that's mainly where the frustration comes from.
I don't have too much of a clear-cut solution. Maybe have multiple hex totems to break, whether it be for all of them or depending on the perk. You could perhaps link it to dull totems and make them important for both survivor and killer, doubling as a way to better incentivize players to cleanse dull totems instead of always needing to slam out gens. Maybe buff them even more to make them even more of a threat to justify a lot of the really bad ones or mid ones being made temporary
I don't know. I just know that the hex perks are subject to exaggeration when it comes to talking about how good they are. When people talk about amazing hex perks, they're usually talking about NOED and Ruin and Devour most of the time, but that's only a small chunk of the perks as a whole.
In short, please don't exaggerate the power of hex perks. It's just an excuse or misinformation if anything.
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How would that work?
"When a Survivor is Cursed by a Hex perk, the Hex is applied to a remaining dull totem." Something like that?
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So two things... At best its the first 18 seconds of the game since it takes 16 seconds to cleanse a totem.
Also, you could run corrupt over ruin if you just want slowdown at the start of the game... Or you have to admit ruin is very powerful if it doesn't get cleansed.
If you want a slowdown that is more consistent then run one, if you want one that is stronger but relies on RNG then run it. You have options.
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You wrote a whole wall of text around the whole "Skill =/ Luck"
Yes. and if "danced" around the issue you too also danced around mine even going back around to "ha, survivor bad because one guy said this" all the while making the same dumb comparisons they do. Ultimately you just end up spinning in the mud with the same "Yeah, I'm cursed with burdens while they dance around and frolic nothing has ever changed for the game"
The goal of survivors is to get to the end-game and that's why the perk selection matters. Hexs are hard to equivalent to survivor perks because they are rather unique
If a survivor didn't get to use Haste or Adrenaline, he sucked.
Here you again show-off the bias you have against survivors by saying the other guy sucked if he didn't make it. I get the comparison you are trying to make, but you keep selectively choosing examples and words to make your argument seem more credible and solid. Implying the other guy had to suck because he didn't make it removes all the minute that goes on in a match and whether intentional or not feeds into the "Killers are always the under-dogs that only win because survivors were bad" (This community has way too much of an inferiority complex)
The only way Hex Perks can avoid being instantly removed from the game is if their effects are weakened severely through a rework. All the QOL changes I've suggested are just that, QOL improvements because you can never entirely remove the risk no matter how much you try and mitigate them. You could make it so that totems have better spawns, don't show as lit until a timer has past, (Survs will just cleanse them anyway) or whatever but there's always going to be the time it gets instantly removed, that's just the law of probabilities in action. If you use a perk that has a physical place on the map you have to accept its going to be found and destroyed eventually. Its why killers that have the ability to trap, travel long distances or exert control have good synergy with these perks. QOL changes are the only thing Hex-Perks need imo, because anything else would result in them being gutted or opening a whole can of worms in changing a mechanic that can be better helped with just QOL changes since at its core Hex perks are solid
if the effects Hex perks have weren't good or strong enough to justify their gamble to so many killer player, nobody would use them. The fact we are arguing about them now is proof of their efficacy
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Ruin can win games.
I had a game with Blight just a few minutes ago. I was able to chase people of off two Tinkerer proc'ing gens and got 4 hooks before it was destroyed. Without Ruin, I would've been down at least two gens, if not more.
The Survivors basically started the game with one person dead on hook and two more down a hook state. That is massively powerful.
Devour Hope, as you said, grinds the game to a halt when it proc's instant downs. That's great game delay AND great chase ending. On a Killer with a ton of mobility, like Billy, Nurse or Spirit, that is incredibly powerful.
NOED is NOED. Agreed.
I was more referring to the power of Ruin and Devour in my comment. They are exceedingly powerful.
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I am not missing the point... Totems are RNG and they are not always trash.
Hex's are super strong perks, every single one of them except maybe 3rd seal unless you know everyone is solo.
There are less powerful perks, that have less RNG.
You can choose to run strong RNG perks, or weaker consistent perks. I choose to run the weaker consistent perks. You choose to run more RNG based perks. It's a choice you made, that you have to live with.
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can we all please be a little more mature in this thread???
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You mean all of the things the devs are already doing? Plus there is only so much they can do. For example, lerys, hawkins and Dead Dawg Saloon used to have amazing spawns... But over time survivors will learn the locations of even the trickiest spawns.
There are spots I check every time I play survivor on those maps.
If you want to change my mind, here is what you'll have to do. find a streamer who streams around 4-8 hours who also always uses a hex perk. If I watch that vod and the hex is cleansed within the first 120 seconds of the match (The same time corrupt lasts) in more then 25% of those games. I'll agree with you.
EDIT: The reasoning behind this is, I bet most people get value out of their High Risk Perks in at least 75% of their games, but choose to focus on the ones they didn't get value in it at all.
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The real solution to this problem is to let the player position the hex totems
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The problem with a compilations is it just isn't good for statistics. That would be like me saying I kobe every game, but then only showing you the games in which I kobe'd
The reason I picked a streamer is because it would be a consistent video in which couldn't be easily manipulated to build a statistical representation of yours and my argument.
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Why would you need to speed it up? And please do, no cuts no modifications. I bet you'll be surprised at how often a hex stays up for at least 120 seconds.
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I guess that's why I see so many killers running two to three hex perks at a time.
Still, spawn points have gotten a lot better (especially with the newer maps). Plus, hex perks can be protected with other hex perks.
I will admit survivors spawning near hex totems is bs. That's needs to change.
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No, because it normally takes 14 seconds to cleanse a totem! 😏
But, I do advocate for stronger protection of token hex perks. Made a thread here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/244410/token-hex-perks-buff#latest
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- "Killers are always the under-dogs that only win because survivors were bad"
It's the truth though. And it's an awful thing. A killer should have fun and be good on its own, we shouldn't depend on the survivor's mistakes. Oh 3 survivors came for the rescue when I'm an insidious basement camper Bubba guess that means I won the game because of my skill and not because the survivors are bad.
There are very few situation in which a Huntress' hatch hitting you is because she's good and not because you were bad and couldn't dodge it, specially because of how the map is tailored to have survivors survive.
Tell me how a 4 man SWF with balanced landing in haddonfield can lose without making mistakes? Exploiting the roof + windows makes it impossible for the survivors to get caught.
What kind of game has one side ONLY be able to win because the other one was bad?
- The only way Hex Perks can avoid being instantly removed from the game is if their effects are weakened severely through a rework.
Or, you know, they could let the killer defend it? Have it spawn next to the killer instead of next to a survivor so when the first thing I do is go check on it when the match begins and on my way it gets destroyed.
Survivors should LOOK for the hex, not have it spawn next to a gen. I can assure you most of the time an hex is destroyed is because the survivor accidentaly stumbled upon it and not because they looked for it. That shouldn't be a thing.
"Wahh I can't help but gen rush! i don't have any other objectives!" but when a killer suggest survivors be given another objective they immediatly get defensive and tell the killer losing the hex was his fault for picking it. I wish they had that ######### mentality when they get caught and facecamped by Bubba and said "if you didn't wanna get camped, don't get caught" like how they go "if you didn't want your hex destroyed, don't pick an hex perk".
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AY! Blood Favor is good on certain killers! How DARE you lol. Seriously, though. I'm really starting to dig Blood Favor on Bubba. It's pretty priceless XD
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The thing is survivors dont have to risk anything when they bring strong perk. If they all bring dead hard there ain't much the killer can do to stop that. Not only that, people bring ruin so much because base regression is extremely trash. it take as much time to regress one gen from 99% to 0% than it take survivors to do 5 other gens from 0%. it take 2 second to kick a gen yet survivor can tap it for 1/60 of a sec and stop the whole regression.
on the other side survivor can gen rush and there no counter to that, and by Gen rush I mean being extremely optimal with their objectives. like all working on different gens. go for rescue only when survivore are close to lose hook stage. Only heal if you going to be chase/save someone.
I just don't see why killer who has less perk slot to use are the one who need to risk those when on the other side we got perks that are powerful and rarely have drawback.
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