stop posting 1v1 cowshed videos and saying "look how survivor sided this is"
1v1 cowshed is a meme and it's not indicative of a real game situation.
- chase starts in shack, not at a generator
- every pallet in the game is up and ready to go
- survivor gets a clear warning and headstart
- no perks
- noone else to chase
- no setup time for the killer
- no killer power
- no reason to drop the chase
- no real decision making
- no alternative targets
these videos that you're posting and talking about as if they matter? they don't. i swear to god we've had like 5 topics about "have u seen the 1v1 cowshed video? how is this fair for killer?" the entire concept of 1v1 cowshed is that it's literally just for fun and has nothing to do with anything. if you want to talk about game balance, talk about The Actual Game Debbie Daylight and not some meme challenge that streamers are doing that has nothing to do with how the game is played and has nothing to do with the rest of the game both in form and in rules.
in general, i'm pretty sick and tired of how ridiculous this "killer sided" vs "survivor sided" debate gets but good god i am especially sick of this specific case.
what's next, the game is killer sided because uhhhhh the killers have theme music? kill me.
/rant
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It’s very annoying because this would never play out the way it does in the video in an actual match. Don’t use the video as proof it needs to be balanced because it’s not meant to show how broken or unbalanced a certain thing is, it’s just a meme/content for Otz to use.
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That killer theme music provides more motivation and spooks the survivors especially if they hear Deathslinger. Or give them tons of confidence if they hear Trickster theme. Definitely hard to balance killer themes.
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I mean Its still a decent sized map with alot of safe pallets, it's easy to rush the gens on the map providing people actually do them. I do agree 1v1 is stupid but so are alot of things that are in the game.
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people legit think that killers being in the worst, weakest possible situation the game has to offer and then not instadowning the survivor who they've given a super generous headstart to is indicative of the game being poorly balanced.
it's driving me crazy.
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Totally and 100% agree with you on these videos. Yes Cowshed is a strong map for survivors but not broken and by no means are these 1v1 challenges there an indicator on anything in the general balance of the game.
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y'know, as sick as it would be for every survivor to get their own instrument, and then have their instrument play the dbd theme while they're queuing, and then have all four instruments together when they're in the lobby as a team
i don't actually want to derail my own thread with talking about that.
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3 survivors will work on gens. 1 survivor will loop killer with god pallets and windows. 1 minute later 3 gen done and you have 1 hook.
Yes game is not survivor side, sure
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It actually bis pretty realistic when you factor in survivors not being completely stupid and actually leaving the generator to go to a loop.
No, actually, you're right. In a realistic scenario survivors would have a much easier time of it because instead of starting at the centre of the chain and only being able to effectively run half of it, they would start at the edge of the chain and work their way through the whole thing no matter how hard the killer tries to zone them.
Congrats. You have opened my eyes to how killer-favoured the 1v1 meme is. That really is the best case scenario for a killer on cowshed: the survivors starting on Shack and having to cut themselves off from half the map.
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Because all chases start at killer shack yes.
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You are talking like only shack is strong. Maps have so much god pallets and some unsafe pallets. You can still loop killer for 3 gens. And when killer broke pallet, go to next.
For sure, game is not survside yes :)
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Oh my god Trapless, perkless Trapper is bad against a survivor who is blatantly better than 99% of all survivor players. I don't really get what Otz was going for with this experiment. Even if it means nothing to him he had to know his moronic audience would start parroting this as a talking point about balance.
Same thing happened when Tru3 uploaded a match where he just proxy camped the basement and the survivors did the smart thing and completed gens and he lost. Entire forum crammed with "SEE KILLER IS IMPOSSIBLE" threads.
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why are you chasing people for 80 full seconds uninterrupted if you're not getting hits
do you actually play killer? like, do you actually achieve kills as killer? or do you just boot it up, find the dude that ran to the exact center of the map because he specifically wanted to run you like an idiot, and then get run like an idiot for 5 minutes and then go "this game is so survivor sided #########" ❓
do you play killers that have chase-ending powers? or do you just pick ghostface and then go "well i'm a killer so i guess i'll chase!"
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You left survivor because he was good. You started chase another one. This guy said "killer is chasing me, go to my gen near to shack, finish it" SWF genrushed you and you still have one hook and 3 gens gone. Because of maps are survside. This video confirmed that. And video only shows one part of map. So yes sure
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push survivor off gen -> kick gen -> make them drop pallet -> kick pallet -> go to other gen
repeat until you've taken out 3 or 4 pallets. maybe gotten in a hit or two.
after that, then you can chase to your black little heart's content, because they won't have any more chain to chain.
i swear. if the game really is the way you describe, then rank 1 killers can't exist, because they physically won't be capable of killing the survivors. tournaments wouldn't have any kills in them at all. and yet, they do! so, please explain to me how tournament level survivors still die.
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I agree that this video is no evidence and this threads make no sense. But last time i checked the majority agreed that cowshed is up there with haddonfield when we speak about busted maps and needs a change.
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Gens can spawn in shack so it's not impossible
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what about my killer power?
you post and post and post as if all the killer can do is walk around and stab people. killers have powers that are to be used to get an advantage. it's all fine and good to rattle off about all the things survivors can do, but name a specific killer and they'll have a strategy for it.
oh, it's hag? put traps around the gen and teleport back to it to hit survivors off of it.
oh, it's trapper? trap windows before approaching so they just die.
oh, it's nurse? lol
oh, it's spirit? lol lol
oh, it's blight? lol lol lol
oh, it's huntress? throw football denny
oh, it's trickster? throw football denny
this world that you describe where all the killer can do is just wander around hitting people does not exist. you talk about game balance as if the killer has no powers whatsoever and no capability to DO ANYTHING EVER and then you come into MY THREAD where i ask people not to post meme videos as if they have impact on the game and you start crowing. did you think this was an opportunity for you to wheel the survivor sided propagandamobile into my house like i wouldn't bite back? i ignore these things everywhere else because it's none of my business, but you bring that to MY house and i will kick you off the porch.
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That first sentence pretty much sums this up. If you're doing that, you're just a bad killer. Look up some guides on how to play tiles or spread pressure and learn when to drop a chase.
Then again if people learned to play before coming here to complain we'd still be on our 4/5th page of threads.
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To be fair half your bullet points really don't matter (like survivors pretty much always have a head start because of the terror radius, the shack is a good position for the survivor, but there's plenty of amazing tiles on this map, the lack of alternative targets or dropping the chase is like the whole point of the video; it's a 1v1, ...). The fact the killer isn't using their power however should have a massive impact on the outcome of the chase though and this situation is indeed never really going to occur in an actual game so naturally variables are missing.
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All it shows is how busted the farm maps can be, and we already knew that.
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And here's counter points for your statement
gens can spawn in shack
All pallets are in play when a match starts
Everytime you get a warning that's what the terror radius is
No perks can go the other way. no dead hard or vault speed
Yes theres no one else to chase that's like saying your shooting someone else in a 1v1 on cod
Why do killers need set up time that's more time used before a chase
What do you mean by decision makeing
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The thing is that this 1v1 videos are just a fun challenge for the killer and the survivor side.
Best case they are a model, a vague representation of reality that is oversimplified to highlight a certain aspect. As you said, there is no incetive to drop the chase, no switching targets and all pallets are up. Now what kind of information do we get from those videos? That in a 1v1 situation a survivor can run a killer around for what seems an eternity.
Well best information for any killer is: Sometimes you need to drop the chase. When the survivor is in a strong tile you should not chase the survivor more than 30 seconds or so. Sometimes you can not gain anything more then a single hit, sometimes not even that.
Take your loss and search for a weaker target. You do not have to chase all survivors equaly if some survivors steath around or are only on strong tiles. Take the easy targets first if you want to get hits and hooks. There is no rule that you have to follow a survivor into the house of pain or any structure like that. Let them have their save zone and punish them when they leave it.
Problems only arise when the map is only composed with strong tiles.
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unfortunately it is internet law for funny memes and jokes to be taken seriously by a very few, very vocal minority and it just gets tiring
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I have 4K %60 of my matches. And maybe %4 - 5 of my matches 4 survivors escaping. I tnink i know enough playing killer. I have not problem with chases or killing them. Problem is i have to show more effort than survivors. When i chase one of them others on gens and safe. The guy who i chasing has god pallets and windows. So i have to be smarter than survivor for down early. Because maps force me do that, i have to show more effort. Maps are so safe for survivors and i can not say "game is balanced" because it is not. Maps are so much survside, gen times are also survside. So yes this game so much survside.
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That is not how that map works. The fact that you even think kicking a gen... I'm sorry, but do you undersrand the concept of map pressure and pallet density?
If you play like that against any team that knows what they are doing, you lose. Hands down, no exceptions. You're kicking gens, for ######### sakes, that doesn't work outside of rank 10. Doesn't matter what map it is, but it especially doesn't work on Cowshed. There are too many strong loops all clustered together. It takes more than a minute to get 3-4 pallets in one little area just because the loops are simple and chainable, and once those pallets are gone there's still another 4 within running distance.
You want to patrol gens until the pallets are gone? That doesn't work on any map, not unless the survivors are some kind of potato-powered bots that finish than a gen a minute. You have no map pressure and they can hold W. Except on Cowshed they don't need to because there's still loops everywhere.
Maze tile into path pallet into shack into path pallet into maze tile into two junk tiles, and in the centre there's a Cow Tree that's always reachable that chains into a hay/junk tile that chains into another junk tile and also both into Cowshed itself that usually has a path pallet that chains into another maze tile that always chains into at least one but usually 2 strong filler pallets that chain back into the first maze tile and I haven't even touched the last corner yet, where there is another filler pallet or two that chain into a maze tile and often that maze tile chains into either a filler pallet or a path pallet back into Cowshed.
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Yeah, from CowHell itself to Torment Creek and Rancid Abattoir with their insane windows... We've seen a lot of interesting things on the farm maps.
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Oh yeah?
1v1 me midwich
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*Proceeds to hold W for the W
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing. 1v1's against basic m1 killers like that are absolutley useless. Sure, it requires some thought from the survivors where they're gonna path and how they're gonna loop. But it's usually just go to pallet, drop pallet, go to next pallet, drop pallet, vault a window, go to pallet, drop pallet over and over.
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NO, MY ONE WEAKNESS, HOW DID YOU KNOW?
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fine. i will type an entire novel.
a gen spawning in shack means either shack pallet or the shack gen is going. personally i let the shack gen go unless it's also a basement, in which case survivors never go there because they don't want to get basemented. good survivors won't hang around the basement against a killer where they don't know who it is yet. at the start of a game, my identity is probably secret unless i am playing as pig, plague, twins, or nurse. the risk of being instadowned by the basement at the start of the match is too great and will throw the match for my team, so i don't repair basement gen unless i know who the killer is and that's definitely not at the start of the match. hell, i'll never repair basement gen first, it's just common sense.
all pallets are in play when the match starts, which is why you force survivors to drop some and then move on. the killer's first objective is disrupting gens a little bit, and disrupting pallets a lotta bit. pallets are your goal for the first step of the match otherwise you'll never get anyone, and that's a fact. unless they're stupid and feed you a bunch of hits, but y'know, we're not talking about potato play.
good survivors don't come off the generator at the terror radius. they come off the gen for two reasons: 1) the terror radius is getting closer and closer. 2) spine chill is lit up. survivors relying on spine chill can be fooled into staying on the generator for longer by not looking directly at it, usually leading to a free hit. so, no, they don't get that much of a warning - they certainly don't get a missed melee attack at 15 meters lol.
the killer not having perks is much more devastating than the survivor not having perks. i don't know if you've noticed, but killer perks are hugely powerful and really instrumental, and survivor perks are like little boosts, with the exception of some perks. notably dead hard, which you've pointed out - being, in effect, an extra health state does in fact factor in. but do you think dead hard has a bigger effect than... i dunno, devour hope? noed? make your choice? do you think dead hard wins more time than pop goes the weasel or ruin costs? do you think dead hard is more powerful than nurse's blink? do you think dead hard is more powerful than huntress's hatchets?
yeah. there's noone else to chase. this is a huge and major and massive point that you seem to be glossing over? being able to pick your battles is key to being a good killer and knowing when to pick a different one can get you huge advantages and momentum. the 1v1 forces you into the 1v1, so you don't get to capitalise on good decision making. (this is what i meant by decision making, BTW)
killers need setup time because they need to... a) choose which direction they're going to push the survivor. survivors will run away from you, so you can take them into areas you've already cleared out in other, earlier chases. b) some killers actually have setup time, like myers, ghostface, trapper, hag, whatever. this setup time can end chases way earlier than if they hadn't set up. it's vital. you're glossing over a vital thing like it's not a big deal, it is.
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ok. this is where we get into the nitty gritty of "what killer are you playing?".
because for me, it's usually trapper. 3 gens have already gone, and the last 4 all have traps around them.
so yes, i'm kicking the generator, because by the time i'm done i'm going to hear a scream, and i'm going to calmly walk over and collect my survivor from the returns bin.
what killer are you playing?
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Unless the survivors are running green toolboxes and Prove Thyself, if you're chasing a survivor for ONE WHOLE MINUTE and 3 gens pop, you played awfully.
Just git gud-- why do I keep seeing you and other Freddy players talk about how survivor sided the game is while also admitting that they are bad?
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Yes, let’s imagine that all survivors spawn separate and jump on 3 different gens as soon as the match starts, the survivor you chase never leads you to one of them, and you chase the survivor for a full 80 seconds. In that scenario you would lose 3 gens sure.
But what about:
- Killers with anti-loop powers making the chase much shorter
- Killers using mindgames and zoning to make the chase shorter
- Survivors not spawning on gens and wasting time running around looking for one
- Survivors all spawning together
- Survivors doing totems
- Survivors looting chests
- Survivors farming challenges
- Survivors being interrupted on their gen by you chasing the other survivor
- Corrupt Intervention
- Ruin regressing the gen they worked on when they’re interrupted or forced to leave to save a teammate
Like, this game isn’t played in some sterile environment where all survivors are highly optimised teams who make the best and most efficient plays at all possible times. Most of the survivors you will face are predictable and greedy, they’re Megs who throw down shack pallet against a Legion in Frenzy, Davids who Dead Hard into the corner of the map, Claudettes who throw down pallets in the way of their injured teammate, and Neas who are so hungry for their flashlight save Tome challenge that they feed the killer free slugs. Most survivors are BAD. And if you’re regularly losing to those REALLY BAD survivors I have news for you: you played worse than they did.
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Show respect first or stop arguing with me. Sit and bye
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Cowshed is still survivor sided
The videos don't even prove that, it's just a fact tbh
They spent all the time on overhauling the visuals and they didn't balance it
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oh, if you're coming back to my thread, could you please respond to this? i replied to you and you seem to have missed it, or chosen to ignore me. i would like to hear what you think about my post.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2201789/#Comment_2201789
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I already answered you sir Dwight. Check page 1
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ahh so you did, i missed it! notifications are useless when you make a thread. i've gotta check for more specific settings.
in response to this
having to put more effort in is not indicative of game balance. there's 1 of you and 4 of them, you're only capable of interacting with 1 of them at a time, and the only way you can stress out multiple survivors is by killing some, which means the ones you've killed won't be stressed any more.
it's just... nothing to do with game balance.
there is a stress issue where good killers feel more stress than good survivors but i am nowhere near the realm of talking about something like that. seems impossible to fix without screwing survivors over really, really hard.
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I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but this has very little to do with specific killers. And especially not Trapper, you aren't catching anyone but really bad or really arrogant survivors on that map. His traps are extremely visible no matter where you put them, and on top of that you have to take the time to place them, which is free gens.
However, to humour you, I'm mostly playing Survivor on that map, that's for some reason a map I get sent to a lot. I'm also a Plague main, a former Blight main, and I played a lot of Trapper on the last few months. Mostly with padded jaws and no bag.
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the... the really arrogant ones are the exact type we're describing, aren't we? the ones that play super optimally and won't settle for anything less than a 0k?
and yeah, i know trapper is free gens. my games start at 3 gens, sometimes they start at 2 or 1 gen remaining lmao. that's just the nature of the beast, but i've gotta do my prep, y'know?
i can see why you say the things you do as a plague main though. she is just... oof. it's so easy for every plate she's spinning to just fall all at once and cowshed in particular is really prone to that.
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No, you're confusing arrogant with good. Arrogant survivors will blindly step on a trap because they're too busry looking at you.
And, no, Plague is one of the strongest killers in the game and she suffers on cowshed the least of any killer except Spirit or Nurse. Or perhaos Demogorgon now that Barbs Glasses exist. You clearly do not understand where I'm coming from - I'm not a killer main.
I'm going to go ahead and return to the fact that you think kicking and patrolling gens is an effective strategy - it's not, that's exactly what survivors want you to do. You're not only wasting time, you're giving free gen time that isn't recouped by your power or gameplay. That kind of playstyle leads to gens being finished in 3 minutes.
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ok, dude. i don't know what to say to you. not a word i'm saying is going in, and you're sitting there barking me down instead of discussing things.
you are not correct about multiple things. let me know when you wish to engage in a conversation instead of Saying Things In My Direction.
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Agreed. Its funny that people have a problem with those Cowshed-Videos. They are completely irrelevant, since they are far from normal gameplay (Powerless Killer, 1v1, no Perks, etc.).
Meanwhile, the 50 Winstreak-Videos of Otz, which are in far more realistic conditions, are fine. Like, it is really bad that a Killer can be run around for 3 minutes if you make the game as survivor-sided as possible, but completely fine that a Killer can win 50 times in actual public games in a row.
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