http://dbd.game/killswitch
About 6 months since the Moris nerf and the keys remain unchanged
You can no longer use the excuse that changing keys takes more time than Moris because they will create new animations for keys. In 6 months you have been able to create any type of animation, if they haven't, it's because they don't give a **** about the keys.
Specifically in patch 4.4.1 (on December 8, 2020) this change was made, so in about two weeks it will be half a year that the Moris were nerfed. And you're telling me that they haven't made a single big change to the keys yet (except that the hatch closes earlier when they open it)?
Yes, that change they made helps, but it is light years away from being enough to fix the key problem.
Comments
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They said with that smaller key change that the bigger one is coming soon I’m predicting this chapter
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They mentioned that they still weren't sure if the keys were an actual problem a couple months ago, so I take that hatch duration change as them just starting to work on keys. Changing Mori's took years of complaints and all they did was change it from 1 hooks to 2, so I don't expect a full key rework anytime soon but I hope I am wrong.
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It's very ridiculous that keys have not been changed yet. All I would do is make them only open hatch when all gens are done. That's it I mean it's a very simple change like moris.
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People have been complaining about the Moris and the Keys for years, yes, the only difference is that that simple change to the Mori completely destroyed it and the change to the Hatch was in the vast majority of occasions useless.
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Keys are just not that much of an issue to me. But I actually like the hatch mechanic. I like the mini-game of being down to the last 2 players looking for hatch. And when someone brings a key, half the time they throw the game looking for hatch when they could have finished the last generator. I would say that overall keys are pretty neutral.
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Yes, and I like the Spirit, but that doesn't mean that she is balanced.
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They don't even need to nerf keys, just nerf the hatch spawn conditions.
Or make opening hatch a 10s+ long animation that can be cancelled like totem cleansing
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The mori nerf was was pushed into an unrelated hotfix because of the Twins shitstorm happening at the time. A mori nerf at a later time would have caused another shitstorm. They pushed it out when they did not because it took them that long to implement this change but to avoid having to deal with the outcry.
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It'll come soon. REmember that Bhvr works on updates at a snails pace.
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we don't know when "soon'' is though.
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Keys are nowhere close to the power of moris were. With keys, both the objective has to be done and others have to die. Then the hatch has to be found. And that assumes the killer doesn’t have franklins. Extremely situational and a lot of work on the survivor part.
Now look at Moris. Cut the objective in exactly half, when the objective of killer is already a walk in the park. Most of the time Moris were used for revenge and a player was eliminated from the match within a minute. Does a key have that kind of power? No.
For keys to be like Moris, all four survivors would win when 2.5 gens were done. Statistically, its been shown and said by the devs themselves that key escapes are extremely low. They have no impact in the large grand scheme of things. Moris did.
They are not comparable. Saying keys should be nerfed because moris were nerfed is killer entitlement.
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The keys will never get changed... Devs can't live without them.
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What? Do you want an exact release date? Because if they give us one then all you'll see until then would be keys.
That is exactly why the mori nerf happened out of nowhere, so people didn't have time to use them every match before their nerf.
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I really do understand your frustration with keys and I agree they should be changed. But can we please not turn this into a killer vs survivor post. I can already see people saying "they didn't change keys yet because the devs are survivor sided , and want to make killer unfun" this is most likely not the case.
Can we please just kill that before it starts.
(Again I totally agree keys should be changed like mori)
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Oh god, @Lord_Tony I invoke you, I can't handle Sluzzy's amazing arguments!
For starters, the BHVR stats are a joke / fake. The latest statistics they put on the DS indicated that the percentage of people who escaped was the same as before the nerf. Are you telling me that DS was previously a perk that offered you invulnerability for 60 seconds and now that you are no longer invulnerable you still have the same escape rate? Okey.
"when the objective of killer is already a walk in the park" - People keep asking you for a gameplay of you playing, because I don't know what you mean by "walk in the park". I guess you don't have friends to try it, but being in a SWF is synonymous with destroying any killer (except maybe the Spirit and the Nurse).
"With keys, both the objective has to be done and others have to die." - You say it as if repairing generators that is literally holding M1 for 80 seconds was just as difficult as trying to capture a survivor who can loop you easily using and managing windows / pallets well, although I imagine that looking at your comment history you don't know how to loop very well.
With the Moris you had to capture a survivor twice, and that could take a long time, long enough to have a large number of gens repaired. That doesn't mean it was balanced, the nerf was deserved, but the same goes with the Keys, if 3 survivors have died and one remains, you have lost. If 2 survivors have died and 3 gens have been repaired, you have lost, etc. Even repairing the 5 gens allows the 4 survivors to escape without having to go to the gates. Having repaired 5 gens isn't synonymous with having won. Killers with one-shot abilities or with perks like NOED, No Way Out, Blood Warden, etc., can turn the game around and kill multiple survivors, but the Keys completely override that.
Basically if you have a late-focused build and they have a key, keep in mind that you will not take advantage of the build because of that key.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
It's so true but the sad part is it doesn't fit their narrative so therefore they're not going to accept that argument
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I believe it. DS was a weak perk, made even weaker. Now punishes for playing the game to keep it. Even before the nerf, if the killer didn't tunnel it wasn't used. Now, you can heal and they tunnel for free. Horrendous change and had no effect so it made the game less enjoyable for survivor side.
You can't finish the M1 repair if the killer interrupts you and that is what usually happens. You either have to help a teammate or the killer is interrupting you. Then with killer perks, the progress is lost. No matter how good you are at looping if a killer can press a button and deny the loop, the meta killers totally denys looping, the ONLY defense you have against killers but is denied by killer powers.
What I am reading is that you are upset an item has a small chance of countering your guaranteed sealed in the bag victory. The end game is when killers are the strongest and you are upset a key is countering your ultra powerful build.
If killers can pick perks that make their game easier, survivors should have something to make their end game easier as well.
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Ignorance is bliss. Keys and hatch create a lot of this game's problems.
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Keys are the worst thing actually in the game. When you are a Killer that plays for the win (the 4k) you have a completly stressful game before you, when a survivor brings a key along with him.
So many Survs are complaining about beeing slugged the half game, but dont give a [Bad word] about the Killer. Survivor dont need to complete their full objectiv - just a few you know (3/1 2/2 or 1/3) and not that to mention that only the keyholder survivs - no the whole rest of the group.
When you dont want this as a killer you have to spend 25% of your perkslots only for the use of franklins (and it takes 2 min for 1 item to disappear) - and every surv on the map can pick it up (i said SWF with voice and franklins is totally useless, unless you camp the item for 2 minutes) - And how many Gens can be done in two minutes by 4 survs???
The change to 10 sek is rididcules - no normal surivor just goes through the hatch without their mates.
Yes moris before the nerf was very ugly - but the keys are much much more ugly.
And now - just for fun - lets think about a mirrorpart for killers for one moment. Imagine there is an offering that allows killers to instant kill the WHOLE Survgroup when he hooked everybody twice and gets a insta win. I cant imagine how much complaining in this forum would be.
(sorry i am not the best writer in english :D) but i think everybody understands what i mean
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I thought keys were unfair too until last night where every red rank killer I played against had iri and purple addons. People keep saying that survivors that bring keys don’t care about the killers enjoyment but the same could be said about killers that bring iri addons every game. Keys are only unfair against killers with 0 addons.
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"DS was a weak perk" - lol. Following your overwhelming logic that the DS was weak and is now MORE weak, why do the stats show that it is not weaker? Hasn't the probability of escaping even been reduced by 1%? Ha ha, sure.
"You can't finish the M1 repair if the killer interrupts you and that is what usually happens" - There are 4 survivors and the killer can only be with one, I think you have forgotten that.
"Then with killer perks, the progress is lost" - It bothers you that the killer has 4 perks but it doesn't bother you the 16 perks in total that you have the survivors among them, right?
"No matter how good you are at looping if a killer can press a button and deny the loop" - What button? What button does the Trickster have to press to deny that loop? 16 times the right click? That isn't pressing 1 button, it's pressing it 16 times. What do you mean by pressing a button?
"If killers can pick perks that make their game easier, survivors should have something to make their end game easier as well." - I mean, hello? Do you know that survivors have perks too? Now I understand why you complain so much about killers, you've never used perks from what I see.
If at least your arguments were logical I would feel like I'm doing something useful in arguing against you, but all you do is defend the keys and survivors because you are bad at the game, not because you have a good reason.
Post edited by TheBus4K on1 -
I am hoping the reason it's taking them so long is because they are reworking hatch entirely.
It'd be nice if they just replaced it with a final chase.
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At this point I don't believe in a hard nerf for keys. Otherwise they wouldn't have introduced hatch offerings. They probably give keys a 1 second opening animation and that's about it.
Let's face it, keys are here to stay.
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Yes you can still use "changing keys takes more time than Moris" as an excuse, because it does. And also, developing a game like DBD is not easy, it takes time. Keys are not the only thing they are working with.
They are patching bugs and glitches, they have been working on chapters like the RE chapter, they have to deal whit this community, and much more. They are not working 24/7, it will take time for them to nerf keys.
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Got to watch a survivor key out today. Thanks to weird latency and the game rarely letting me get a hook grab, I downed Dwight mid-unhook but... Meg still came off the hook and ran straight to the nearby hatch to key out (with a key found in a chest). I got to watch her do it as the post-successful-hit animation finished. I get so tired of playing against not only four survivors but an unknowable number of different problems within the game. How can I counter weird latency and broken grabs and a key and survivors all at the same time?
Hatch shouldn't spawn until there's only one survivor left or all five gens are done. Being able to key out like that is ridiculous.
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I wish but there is no way they would remove the free win with no effort required mechanic off the game. Survivors love getting free #########, it's why Spirit "stand still" kills infuriate them so much, they think only their side should have the easy victory.
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You could use the excuse that "changing keys takes more time than Moris" when Moris were nerfed, but not 6 months later.
Keys aren't the only thing they work on, but there isn't a single person/team in charge of everything, which is what you seem to believe. A single person or team isn't in charge of creating killers / survivors, rework maps, fixing bugs, changing perks, etc.
What you cannot do is think that the keys cannot be changed because they are working on other things. Following your logic, they would never end up with anything because they are always working on things.
If the game weren't programmed in a spaghetti code, they would have to work on fewer bugs and glitches, but of course, as it's not the case, they have less time to change the keys, I understand.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
You misunderstood everything I said, so let's just end it there
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I think it should be:
Attempt to use key. Faced with hard skill check/s when trying to open hatch. Fail a skill check? Key breaks.
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Unless you were being sarcastic in your previous comment (I hope so, because what a comment), I don't understand why you say I have misunderstood you.
If you were really sarcastic, sorry for answering you like that, considering the existence of Sluzzy, I wouldn't be surprised if there was another main survivor around here who really put that comment.
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I mean .... DS used to work on pick up for about a years. BT used to give endurance to BOTH people for about a year, OoO was unchanged for 4 years.... give it "a bit" before we start to look at numbers that indicate that there is a posibility of a problem existing around key usage.
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Keys were introduced in patch 1.1.2 (late 2016) and have never been changed, unlike the perks you have named. Where do you want to get with your comment?
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The problem isn't keys. Its hatch. A lot of survivors just hide and wait from everyone else to die and go for hatch. Red rank, 1000hr survivors play like this.
Hatch should only spawn for 5 gens done or 1 survivor left. No spawning but closed, no gens/survivor alive math. Either do gens or everyone else dies. Its playing the prisoners dilemma because if a person try to do gens and playing as intended, they will get killed while people who aren't contributing are vying for hatch.
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6 months?? god every day is the same
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Bring back hatch escape interrupt. Boom, key counterplay.
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You know that they have other things on the way too? They didn't prioritize key rework first and rest of the game later. Key rework is on the door and my guess is that it will happen same time when RE chapter comes or the next mid-chapter. You don't realize how hard it is to rework keys when there is whole community shouting "fix this, fix that, nerf this, nerf that, this perk needs rework/nerf, this map is unbalanced"? Also they need to rework realms and that takes whole bunch of time.
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"SWF is not as strong as you're making it out to be"
- Are you telling me that SWFs aren't as strong as I say? So you've never been to a SWF / never played a decent one. With SWF I don't mean 4 people with 100 - 300 hours each, but 4 people with 2k - 4k hours each, who know how to loop perfectly taking advantage of each window / pallet / long walls / etc., they know how to choose which gens to repair (in other words, they don't repair many gens that are close to each other), they can decide who rescues someone from the hook and who continues to repair, etc. I repeat, if you really think SWFs aren't as strong as I say, you've never been into one or never gone against a decent one.
"a killer can almost always re-down the first survivor hooked relatively quickly"
- Not against a SWF (which, according to you, aren't that strong) that 100% of the time have BT, and if you try to down someone who has 4k hours and above with Endurance, good luck. Obviously the amount of SWF is much smaller than the rest of the players, I'm not saying that the Moris don't deserve the nerf, but It's funny that you say that you can "always" down a survivor.
"keys have a handful of solid counters and can be planned around from the lobby, or even dodged"
- Solid counters? Could you tell me? You don't happen to be talking about Franklin's Demise, are you? That perk becomes completely useless the moment the survivors from the start of the game leave the key on the ground / in a chest for the entire game until the hatch appears. And exactly what are you planning in the lobby? Are you going to become aware that there are keys and therefore are you going to play better so that survivors repair fewer generators? Do I have to exchange my perks / addons / offering just for a key? Are you telling me that I have to dodge a lobby and find another lobby for another 5-10 minutes because of a key? ...
"while keys sometimes have a large impact but are often irrelevant; if you escape through the gate, if you escape through the open hatch"
- Keys are a problem the moment the hatch appears, but repairing 5 generators isn't the same as winning the game. Killers with one-shot abilities or with perks like NOED, No Way Out, Blood Warden, etc., can turn the game around and kill multiple survivors before they open the doors and / or escape through them. This happens especially with "weak" killers, normally they usually repair the 5 gens before you have killed someone (or just one), so if you see someone with a key and you go with a weak killer, the survivors are quite good so they manage to repair 5 gens while you haven't killed anyone or you have only killed one, there is no possible comeback, because no matter how many perks you have or oneshot ability, a key doesn't care about that.
With all this I don't mean that the keys are as problematic as the old Moris were, but people make it look like the keys are incredibly more balanced than the old Moris, and that's not true.
At least I have been able to argue with someone who provides normal arguments, not like Sluzzy's arguments like "killers are very op and survivors are poop."
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I never said that wasn't the case, there are definitely problems on both sides. But I will say, for me it always feels worse when I play killer. Survivors disappearing because of frame drops, bugged grabs that don't even let me injure a survivor, the different problems each killer has that screw up their powers... Frame drops screw me as survivor sometimes, and there are some hits that make me go "really?" but I can't remember the last time I had a problem as survivor that made me go "Screw it, I give up, I can't play like this."
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Comparing keys to moris is ridiculous, it just proove how low your knowledges of the game are
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Okay well what's really terrible is the fact that survivors can 3 gen themselves but then get a free get out of jail card from something they found in a chest. Not saying they should be removed from chests because keys are items. But keys would still be useful at endgame because you can 4 man coordinate an escape and not have to worry about NOED or bloodwarden.
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I've seen people switch keys last seconds of the match. Its frustrating that I have to tunnel out the key user or slug every survivor so they don't hatch escape. Yes they have to do the objective but 4 survivors could easily do 2 gens while I down 1 survivor. And that's the best case scenario for them.
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Sluzzy is on here spitting logic at these super biased players who refuse to see how vastly different keys and moris are. Made an account to give you props for proving these people wrong while not being disrespectful. Anyone who thinks keys have even remotely the same impact as moris has never played both sides of this game
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They have actually changed keys since then, plus you cant just change keys without thought, it needs to be done right. Just like how games are delayed because it's not done. If you release an unfinished game, its not fun
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There is absolutely no problem with keys because of their unsignificant impact on average gameplay. You see a key user like every four or five games and even then this person gets hardcore tunneled most of the time. So bringing a key is actually more of a risk than benefit for survivor.
Also changing the hatch to just another door mechanic with just another progress bar would make this game more boring, too predictable and less diverse.
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This key nerf might be taking too long, but if we've waited for years then we can wait a bit more.
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Problem with that is that the final survivor will always get an escape based on luck and not skill then. At least with the actual system I can let survivors finish gens until the hatch at least shows up so I can slug someone and then find it. If it only spawns when one survivor is left killers will ALWAYS lose the game because of RNG.
If anything the hatch should never be invisible.
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Give them credit. Cmon.
Go watch some 2016-2017 era gameplay. Come back.
Keys are going to get more than 1 second charge time. There's no way they spend 6 months to do that.
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Curious and not trying to start an argument here: what is the actual escape rate with keys?
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I'm also curious, but I don't trust the statistics provided by BHVR, you just have to look at the statistics they gave on the killers and on the DS...
At no time have I compared the Moris with the keys, you need a little reading comprehension.
The problem is that Moris have practically always been the biggest problem for survivors and in MY opinion keys is the biggest problem for killers (minus SWFs that are never going to be nerfed from what I see).
"Sluzzy is on here spitting logic"
- What logic is Sluzzy spitting out? That the DS was weak before the nerf without any kind of argument to back it up? According to Sluzzy, DS is weaker after the nerf but according to statistics it's still the same, so why has Sluzzy said that he believes in statistics then?
- Can't you repair if a killer interrupts you? The Killer interrupts 1 survivor at a time, not all 4 in the game.
- What button should I press if I am playing Trickster or Ghost Face to avoid that, although a survivor is very good at looping, I can deny the loop? What killers are meta according to Sluzzy? Nurse and Spirit? 2 killers against 23 killers in total there?
- On top of that, Sluzzy complains that we killers can take perks to make the game "easier". Don't survivors have perks? Tell me, what logic is Sluzzy spitting out?
- I tell you the same thing that I have told Venzhas, at no time have I said that the keys are as problematic as the old Moris, but you make it look as if the keys were much more balanced, and there is no difference as abysmal as the you make see.
It seems that you are Sluzzy with a secondary account, to say that that is "spit logic" makes as much sense as Sluzzy's arguments 😂
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Mori’s were way more powerful than keys have been though. They were the first priority.
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