So apparently, Wraith becomes viable and people are already complaining
Wraith has been one of the worst killers in the game for years and now that the devs have made him viable, he’s already getting complaints. Let me just say that he has literally the same play style as he used to except he’s actually good.
I’ve played against many Wraiths ever since his buff and still don’t have any problems when facing him. In fact, I find him even more fun to go against than before because there is a skill in being attentive and looking out for his shimmer and the noises he makes as there is much more of that in games due to his incredible movement speed. He also negates holding W which is a brain dead yet effective strategy for survivors. The long lunge that he has when coming out of cloak offers unique mind games for both sides to outplay the other, which is very fun. It’s equal opportunity for both sides which is something a killer like Spirit doesn’t have.
With that being said, I think the devs did a great job with Wraith and I’m of the opinion he’s in a great and healthy spot. If you find buffed Wraith unfun to play against, then that is totally fine as I’m not trying to change your mind or make you feel bad. Just remember that Wraith before his buff was a very weak, add on reliant killer but now that he’s good, it just doesn’t seem right that he’s already getting complaints when he’s the same killer from before except much better.
Comments
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Great take on this, it's been bugging me that people keep saying that Wraith is OP, he really isn't. And any good survivor player will agree that he's not overpowered.
I still think Wraith is weak compared to other killers, but he's in a great spot and I don't think he needs anymore changes at the moment. (other than a rework to silent bell and all-seeing add-ons)
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Exactly. I consider him low B or high C tier as he can still be looped but has a fairly decent anti-loop ability that has counterplay.
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My main complaint about wraith isn't the killer himself, it's how people are playing him
They rarely commit to chases and it just robs survivors of the fun part of the game most of the time. That's not a wraith exclusive problem but that's probably why people have started calling him boring
Not to mention the amount of bamboozle using wraiths I've seen. Basically "no you don't get to play the game"
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He is in a good spot. But Survivors complain about any Killer that shortens or ignores loops.
If they can't loop a Killer 5 times (or for 60 seconds; whichever is longer), then that Killer is OP. Oops! I need to use the new lingo! That Killer is 'unfun' and needs to be 'adjusted' for 'the health of the game'. 😂
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I guess I can understand that but sometimes if a survivor does get hit and use their speed burst to go to a strong area, the smart thing for the Wraith to do is to not commit to that.
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They don’t say it about every killer but yeah that is true to some extent.
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Again it might just be a problem of overexposure
If you face like 8 wraiths back to back and they all are running stuff like bamboozle, windstorm shadow dance and they don't really commit to chases they just spam cloak/uncloak all game - frustration is likely going to set in. That's what happened with me, at least
I don't mind facing any killer for the most part but if I faced one certain killer 8 times in a row, I doubt anyone would blame me for being sick of it.
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He’s a really solid killer now. I’d say high B tier, possibly A tier on some maps with particular builds. It’s annoying that so many people are calling for him to be nerfed but that’s to be expected in this type of game. Nobody has really been against Wraith on any consistent basis, so now that he’s finally being payed again - which is a good thing - people are struggling because they have no idea what to do against him. It’s easier to complain and demand that the issue is resolved artificially than it is to analyse what they’re doing wrong adjust their approach accordingly.
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As you said, that isn’t much of a Wraith problem but more of the player playing the killer.
I’m hoping as soon as people start playing against him more and understand the way to play around him, then the complaints will tone down a little but that could be wishful thinking.
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I completely agree. Hadn't played on a somewhat regular basis since late 2019, decided to give him a shot after his buff and it felt so much better. I think he is in a really good spot right now.
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I literally got wasted earlier when playing Wraith, only got 1 kill. They played very well against my cloak, and they weren't even a SWF. It really isn't that hard, at least against a Wraith running no addons.
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I get what you mean, I don't like that playstyle for Wraith, it's boring for both sides. When I play Wraith, I always commit to chases when I consider it the best idea. Chases are a fun aspect of the game for both sides, which is why I don't like playing Hag.
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He's really fun right now as I feel more in control of the match.
Some of his add ons could be nuts but base Wraith is fine.
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People don't like killers who can actually threaten to kill them.
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To an extent, yeah, but not everyone that finds certain killers boring is like that.
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He's just strong now (I'd personally rate him somewhere in A tier, or high B), and people aren't accustomed to that happening so quickly.
Old Wraith's issue was sucking in a chase, and having a power whose strength was catching people off guard but was off-set by the weakness of not being able to capitalize on that surprise very often.
New Weaith's issue is still sucking in chases overall (albeit less with windstorm plays at pallets), but is very lethal when people are caught off guard since it's essentially a guaranteed free hit.
The frustration with this new guaranteed hit is that you can't really infinitely heal unless you have Self-Care. However, you can't afford to really do objectives when injured because he gets that free hit again if you do since you're almost always out of position on a gen. Even if you have a pallet or window nearby, he'll just block it, force you to run away from safety, and then catch up and hit you anyway.
The frustration gets compounded by the hit-and-run tactic where he doesn't chase anyone. At that point, you don't really interact with the killer much at all more than just end up accepting the free hits he takes on you and wondering when he'll come back to finish you when you're injured.
Even I'm personally confused on how to approach this hit-and-run play-style since I don't typically run self-care.
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Something kind of alarming is that my description of his new power is akin to Spirit, in that you have limited interaction capability by not knowing where/how hits will be coming towards you. That said, I do still think hit-and-run Wraith has some counter-play; however, I'm just still figuring out what that is myself.
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If you're out in the open against Wraith, you'll be able to see him and get to safety. Even at jungle jims and shack where you can't see him, you can still hear his growls and his bell as long as you are attentive. So I don't necessarily call his hits free but nonetheless he can still catch people off guard with good affect.
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i didn't watch your videos actually, but I don't think he is broken OP even with addons honestly.
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I don't think Wraith is OP now, I do think his hit and run and secure free hits at every unsafe pallet/window has taken away lots of interaction in chase. That's the thing, there is a lot of unsafe structure in dbd now which isn't a bad thing but it's something that current wraiths uncloak sprint duration dominates.That said I did want wraith to get buffs but to bring him to a modern killer level he requires something added to his kit to be honest. I'll copy what I wrote in another thread regarding his buff:
"He got an extra quarter second of 150% movespeed. That equates to an extra 1.5 metres of distance he can sprint out of cloak. That is huge at every short loop in the game. He can uncloak at an unsafe pallet/window and he's guaranteed a hit now. It's not about making the correct read anymore, it's about committing to the uncloack at the correct time. There is no cooldown to this mate so you get Wraith's spamming this now. It wasn't done before because he couldn't make the distance in time the survivor vaults the dropped pallet or vaults the window."
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Survivor mains always complain about killers that can do well. It's not about them having no counters, or being unfun or any of that nonsense, it's about if they can run the killer for 2min straight or not. Most people who complain about killers only find a killer fun if they can reliably win vs them.
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His post-cloak lunge is only mainly effective at short loops which there isn't that many of. They're not super rare but there are almost as many jungle jims and shack like structures that are strong against Wraith.
To an extent, I agree, but I agree with other killers being unfun like Spirit and Slinger.
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I really don't understand the mindset of a survivor. They complain all they see are Spirit. Then when a low tier killer gets buffed to viable, so there's other killers at red ranks, they want it reverted. It's starting to feel like all they want are killer bots.
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I said that though aha. Short loops are common what do you mean? What about unsafe structure? It's even worse.
Wraith isn't OP. You can only run him at good structure now with his sprint lunge. You used to be able to run him on every tile.
That's why there are complaints. It's only natural.
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Yeah, if I'm in the open and I see his shimmer it's possible to react.
But when I'm on one of the majority of the generators that's snugged between walls, trees, or other obstacles that block that line of sight, what then? The generator helps masks his growls, so paired with the line of sight blockers I find it difficult to see or hear him coming to be able to react in quite a few scenarios. It's at this point where it starts to feel like free hits. More-so if he has add-ons that affect the sounds of his uncloaking bell to make it impossible to discern where he is through audio signals.
It's not an uncommon scenario either, since hit-and-run Wraith targets you in those situations specifically and never chases. Meaning if I'm in the open and see him, hit-and-run Wraith just passes me by to do the above to someone else on a generator. Unless the nearby pallets have already been cleared by others, or he blocks one without my noticing, in which case I'm not safe even in the open when I can see him.
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Because it's obvious that survivors want to always be able to run a killer around the entire time like this is a 1v1 game.
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A lot of those round loops aren't even that short tbh. On Hawkins they are but everyone agrees that map is BS. A lot of those round loops on MacMillan are long enough where you can react to Wraith.
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I'll have to test more to work out the largest short loop you can do it on. You know the Grim Pantry planks and barrels short loop? Wraith can do it on that size.
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I like the new wraith i think he is good and actually threatening. (I'm a survivor main). But I'm going to be honest I don't like his addons. All seeing addon is so annoying and completely destroy stealth. I would be fine with it if it had a downside to it but it doesn't have any. He doesn't need it anymore now that he is viable.
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Honestly, I kind of agree.
I think he's pretty darn strong right now, and even oppressive at times, but to a healthier degree.
The add-ons are definitely my biggest issue with him. If they changed the all-seeing wall hacks, and MAYBE (uncertain still) the add-ons responsible for altering his uncloaking bell noises, I would be completely satisfied with his current state.
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my only complaint is that the buffs are nice, but the silent bell with all seeing he is just to strong now. that is my only beef, other addons he is fine.
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I would rate Wraith as high B or almost A if he/she is a good Wraith player and knows their tiles. The main problem with him now is most loops are just super short and he can out lunge them without any issue. Just take out the ######### loops and make them medium and he'll be fine and can still smack the ######### out of you if you play it wrong.
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I was commenting on this weeks ago before I saw anyone else saying anything about him and was consistently shot down with complaints and the general counterargument that "he was absolutely terrible, the worst character in the game, absolutely useless", etc, etc, etc.
Now pretty much every day there's a post about how they overcompensated and made him a bit TOO strong but every killer main's argument has changed to "he's only just now become even BARELY decent, he still sucks, he's still M1, he's still easily avoidable, he's still the worst character in the game, he's a stealth character so he's meant to get free hits, you just need to get better, just ensure that there's always a window or pallet next to you and you automatically win, there's nothing wrong with his buff at all because now he's actually capable of getting a kill once every 500 games, survivors complain about everything", on and on and on.
The hyperbole I hear from the killer side regarding The Wraith isn't even worth arguing with anymore.
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They're pretty much right though (although you exaggerated it a bit too much), there's really no valid counterargument to it at this point (other than all-seeing and silent bell being busted af, and Sloppy Butcher being a poorly designed perk). Once you get better at surv you'll see how mediocre Wraith is compared to others, and even consider him to be the poor man's Spirit.
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At least those are ultra rares though.
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I think we need a silent bell and an all seeing nerf or removal. Pretty much all experienced wraiths have it. I've played about 6-8 games in the past 80-ish minutes and about 2/3's of them were wraith and they either had all seeing, silent bell or both. I'm also rank 10 at the moment but those 4+ wraiths were all rank 1 which kind of correlates with the whole experienced wraiths have a lot of those addons.
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Yeah and if anything were to be nerfed about him probably addons and like a 2or3s delay after cloaking
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I guess this is just an agree to disagree type of situation. I've noticed that whenever either side makes a complaint the other side often lashes out, and I've noticed that killer mains are extremely protective of the killers they consider "good" and extremely disgusted by the killers they consider "bad". What I know for myself is that, anecdotally, Wraith seemed fine. I saw plenty of people using him. I saw no one complaining about him. Then he gets a buff and suddenly the story is "everyone hated him because he was terrible, now he's only just passable, survivors whine too much. Get better".
Shrug. Not everyone plays the game to do endless loops, and not everyone looks at things in such a binary fashion. But it seems that when anyone discusses the Wraith, that's the end result. Survivor brings up points that are, at worst, at least worthy of discussion, survivor is ridiculed as being a horrific jerk who wants to steal away the only thing that has supposedly made an awful character in any way playable. It's tired.
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Personally I think giving Wraith more speed was a lazy fix. It doesn’t fit in with his character/play style. I feel like they should have played more to his stealth. His heavy footsteps and snarls should have been removed. The distance thing for his cloak was a good idea, however. His speed add-on for when cloaked should’ve been buffed to what his max speed is now, as a default. Wraith mains never had trouble against the general public before the buff, but I can see SWF’s being a problem for him. I imagine they still are, since some feel like he could have used more of a buff.
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BING BONG BING BONG
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What do you mean with delay?
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Wraith has always been viable and it was always played like he's played now. He received a couple of buffs so he's not under the radar anymore and he's been played more, so now more people realize he's kinda annoying to go against when they all play the same way (which bear in mind it's the most effective way), but he's always been like this.
Only difference is he's now not addon dependant anymore, which means with add-ons he's now very strong
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Giving wraith more speed was a simple fix, but it fits his playstyle. They just made his most used addon (purple windstorm) basekit. So the only thing that changed is that people can now run one strong addon more.
His playstyle was always hit-and-run so the speed increase was neccessary.
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But let’s be honest- because of the speed boost, no one does hit and run any more. Hell, I barely saw it before. Felt like only the top echelon of wraith mains did that. Once they hit you and you gain a speed boost, they just cloak, speed up to catch up to you, then mind game uncloaking followed by a hit. Also, when one thinks Wraith the first word that comes to mind is generally stealth. Now if you were asked about Blight or Billy, it would typically be speed. I just feel like they didn’t put much effort into buffing him properly- like they couldn’t be bothered. You could add speed to any killer and call it a “buff.” If he becomes more popular, I can see him irritating casuals. Me personally, I don’t have fun playing against him. I didn’t even like going up against him before.
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Lets keep buffing killers so the lower ranks suffer and then killers get to ranks where they shouldn't be and then moan about killers not being viable.... when they are at higher ranks than they should be...devs then buff killers again when they moan.....its a vicious circle
what about the people that are green rank and above? You can't keep buffing killers to cater for high rank gameplay
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Its good that they catch up. Holding w can be so boring. And no wraith was never only a stealth killer. He is clearly outclassed atleast compared to ghostface. A only stealth killer who cant instadown would be just a weaker version of other. So a fast stealth killer is where wraith shines. And this speed is only his old windstorm, so most wraith played like that for years.
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Why should yellow ranks be more important than red ranks? I want to play against killer who have a chance against me. A yellow rank can always gets better (every red rank was obviously a yellow rank in the past), but red ranks cant get worse.
So while i understand that it can be frustrating its not that easy to fix.
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He gets obliterated by spinechill.
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You know I wouldn’t even say they’re buffing for higher ranks, because killers do fine in solo que red ranks. It’s the 3 & 4 SWF where killers struggle at. I feel like the buffs are to help killers combat that. But it kind of doesn’t matter because in the end, lower ranks get screwed over either way like you said.
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I don't like reducing things to sides, but:
This is an incredibly survivor sided comment. Running around in circles isn't interesting for the killer.
Any number of survivor perks are 'no you don't get to play the game perks' to a degree that bamboozle doesn't even get close to. Blocking 1 window for a short period of time is no where near as bad as successfully mindgaming a survivor only to have them dead hard out of a well earnt hit and extending the chase indefinitely. Bamboozle isn't even meta lol.
Hit and run gameplay is generally more rewarding for the killers who can get away with it and it doesn't eliminate the ability to play well on the survivors part.
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