Why would people get mad about pride charm?
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That’s literally not what people believe at all. Women and minorities can absolutely find success, but they face challenges that straight white cis men do not. It has nothing to do with ability, in fact women and minorities often have to be better than their competition to even be considered due to subconscious bias. You’re the one spewing bullshit propaganda, purposefully misinterpreting what we’re saying as an attempt to uno reverse progressives as the ones actually discriminating which couldn’t be further from reality.
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Biggotry is the only reason. There's a lot out there. Welcome to the planet earth lol
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Isn’t it funny how any attempt we make to have a positive place to talk about LGBTQ+ rep in DBD, it always gets hijacked by people who claim to ‘not care’. Then the thread gets closed and we get no place to discuss our hopes for the future of gay people in the game. Really sad stuff.
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Thank you.
Speaking only for myself, I'm fully in favor of the Pride charm as I am fully in favor of gay equality. But as I find myself pondering those who aren't, I try to put myself in their shoes. What if there was an icon that many found acceptable or even positive, but which I found offensive?
It just makes me wonder where the line is drawn. I don't know, just like the previous question you and I discussed, I guess I honestly just enjoy intellectual debates about tricky subjects. And this one in particular reminds me of the young days of my gaming career when Nintendo censored anything that had a cross in it, for fear of offending anybody.
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Alright, and what's your point? It isn't illegal in mine. Where Pride is allowed and Homosexuality legal, Pride events are inclusive to all. I'm still not seeing what your point is.
The burden of educating is on nobody. If you care about your cause or whatever and someone is genuinely interested in hearing about it, you probably should be able to share something. People will naturally educate themselves if they are intrigued or feel sympathy for your community/cause. If they just want to argue, they'll never educate themselves so this statement is pointless anyway. Saying 'educate yourself' will 100% annoy and just peg you as someone more condescending than anything else. Also, minorities are not above anything, just as the majority are not either. This is just a lazy argument to avoid having to explain your points. And one that creates massive indifference from a lot of people that would otherwise sympathize.
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You are right, we can certainly celebrate anything we want in the end. Which is why I do frown upon those that think some people have less merit than others when it comes to what can be celebrated. And yes, if a big thing about the celebrated event is also the hardships, it is important to remember and ensure these things don't repeat in future generations.
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I believe you may be referencing me because in the last major discussion about this topic the term "I don't care" was used as a major point of contention.
I don't know if this is a sore point but I'd like to clear it up regardless. In that thread, my use of terms like "I don't care about the sexuality of the characters in this game" was not meant to suggest that I had anything against the inclusion of homosexual relationships, merely that the relationships of the characters was not an important factor to me in defining their worth. They could be gay OR straight, it wouldn't have a bearing on which characters I chose or didn't choose.
You may not be interested in responding to this and if so that's okay, it's your prerogative of course. But I never came to this site to hurt or ostracize anybody and if anyone is still leery of me because they felt that I meant harm or spoke with ignorance, I'd like to start over and lessen any bitterness that may still exist.
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You really don't have to apologize or explain yourself, as you did not do anything wrong or say anything that'd make anyone doubt your reasonable nature. The thread started in a rather negative light, questioning how there'd be potential bad reactions from the charm. This will naturally attract various perspectives and opinions. This wasn't a place to discuss 'hopes for the future of gay people in this game', it was a place to address a potential issue that may occur in the game and people gave their opinions.
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Pride is a protest. It always has been. It manifests often as a parade now, but it started as a literal battle. It’s to show that we’re still here and not going back into the closet.
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being gay is literally a sexuality and it is not political, homosexuals have been persecuted for years and it is necessary to have a commotion, so that it does not repeat itself again. And in a way yes, it is not necessary that this is a topic discussed in a game(but it can also be good, to normalize homosexuality in videogames) but if that is the developers' desire to represent diversity and acceptance, so be it. If you see a lgbt charm and feel uncomfortable in any way, you are probably being prejudiced, even if indirectly. you may not even care but if you think this is a negative thing, you are the only one who is making such a simple thing into a whole political thing.
and responding to your comment. Imagine such a scenario.
you are a white person and you are playing a game where you only have white characters, and then, one day they add a black character. and you ask yourself "how can someone have a different skin color than mine?" we can start from there, why would you be bothered by differences in your game? what's the problem of having a black character too? none.
the same goes for sexuality, all games are made with heterosexual characters, and showing support and acceptance for a minority does not mean discussing politics. and answering the question of the symbols:
lgbtqia + is a community of people with different sexualities, what kind of problem would anyone have with it besides that it doesn't support homosexuality? it's not like it's some kind of political or religious symbol that could really bother someone, it's just a gay charm, LITERALLY a gay charm.
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I appreciate that, but that user and I did have words in a previous discussion on the more specific subject of a gay character being added to the game. I joined the thread with a more aggressive stance than I should have, and as a result all attempts to backpedal and explain myself were met with emotions ranging from suspicion to what felt almost like hatred at points. Some of it was deserved, some not. At one point someone called me a homophobe which, given my history regarding gay rights and the deep care that I have for some gay relatives and my mom's own best friend, was astonishing to hear. I felt that any argument that was not 100 percent pro-gay - anything that I, at least in my own knowing mind - tried to present as a harmless, middle-ground point of discussion, was taken out of context and turned against me to expose as some kind of covert hate-mongered. That's not fun, especially when it's not true. If I don't like something, I have no problem saying so.
So again, I do appreciate your support, but I did phrase some things rather poorly in the last serious discussion I've had on the matter, and judging from what I saw in the post I quoted there was still animosity there. I had, and continue to have, no interest in upsetting anybody. I just enjoy good discussions. I was hoping to make peace, that's all.
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Is anybody actually complaining? I literally haven't seen anything most people just don't care.
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We are not “completely embraced”. Being gay or trans is a criminal offense in nearly 100 countries. I’m an American; 29 states don’t have laws that protect against queer discrimination. 33 states have bill specifically in place to reduce trans rights, including where I live. Gay and trans conversation therapy is still legal in the majority of this country. religious exemption laws still legally allow healthcare workers, including emergency services, to refuse to treat queer and trans patients. Laws were just passed in Tennessee and Texas this year to restrict trans rights. Just because the marriage law was passed doesn’t mean we have equal rights across the board.
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Okay.
Having said all that, how would you feel if the game had a charm that offended you? Because, regardless of the fact that you feel that no one should be offended by the Pride charm, apparently many people are. Are you saying that nothing offends you?
I'm not trying to discuss whether you feel that the charm should be offensive, as I already agree with you on that subject. My question is, again, to play devil's advocate and put the shoe on the other foot. If something were added to a video game that YOU didn't like, which in some way and for some reason deeply offended you, would you not also complain? Would you accept the argument that "it's just a charm"? Would that be sufficient enough to make you feel okay about it and not condescended to? Would you no longer feel that your game had been hijacked?
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It's not that hard to understand. Anytime you are going to introduce something that is considered controversial or offensive to a large group, you have to expect people will show up with strong opinions about it. Not that I am religious or find it offensive in the least bit, but a good part of the country has very strong beliefs against homosexuality due to their church's teachings and upbringing, and so it's understandable that they would not be happy seeing it brought in and celebrated in a video game they play. Again, I don't share these opinions. Neither does Justad00d. But everyone should have seen this coming.
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Being gay is literaly a crime in 60+ countrys, of course people are going to protest for their rights.
its not like we gonna get things just just sitting on the floor and doing nothing, and lgbt parades is just what they say they are, to have PRIDE for who you are.
And also stop disturbing the main discussion here, this is off topic.
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Why does the devil need an advocate?
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Twitter. Most of those tweets got deleted because they have homophobes insults.
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This is what I'm trying to say.
A lot of people have no problem with the gay charm. I don't. I unlocked it immediately. I'm not gay. So why did I unlock it? Because I support gay rights.
But I also acknowledge that there are many who don't. They're offended by the symbol and I understand that. I can understand it, even if I don't personally agree with it. My comments and questions are merely to raise the point that was just made in this quote: By adding something controversial to a game, something that not everybody disagrees with, there will be controversy. I mentioned in an earlier thread that if the game suddenly introduced a pro-choice OR pro-life charm, it would be hell unleashed. The people who are flabbergasted by anyone's negative reaction to the inclusion of a gay charm don't seem to understand why people who AREN'T in favor of it are equally flabbergasted as to why it's in the game.
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I think that it's beneficial to understand both sides of an argument.
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I should be asleep but hey.
There are a few examples of companies that already do this, the first one I can think of is ReSpawn, the devs behind Apex Legends. They have multiple different confirmed lgbt+ characters, including some people who are gay, lesbian, and I'm pretty sure Bloodhound is non-binary and goes by they/them. They have a zero tolerance policy for any form of racism, homophobia, transphobia etc, and have publicly said that if you are homophobic, racist, transphobic they don't want you playing their game. You are no welcome to enjoy their product if you are going to be openly bigoted and against diversity.
That's how I'd do it. Good representation and public statements. Show you care all the time. Spend time denouncing that behaviour, nor just in June. Talk about these problems not just in June. Donate to charities, if that's what you want to do, not just in June.
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Can you elaborate as to why the existence of the charm bothers you?
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We understand. We’ve heard it. But pro-choice/pro-life is a bag comparison. One is a political stance. Being queer or trans is inherent to a person’s identity from birth.
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I think it's pandering and BHVR doesn't actually give one about LGBT people. It's just for PR. As a bi person, I couldn't give less of a damn about the charm and feel no more represented than before.
Speaking of being represented, who cares? No one is representing anyone. This game's cast of characters is about as interesting as Plague gameplay. Regardless of their race, background, color, gender, or orientation, Survivors are just skins with piss poor voice acting and no personalities to speak of in a horror game about brutally sacrificing innocent people to a giant spider demon. Representation is the LAST thing on my mind when it comes to Dead By Daylight.
It's pretty obvious to me that the charm is only there to make BHVR look good. They couldn't care less about what orientation their players are as long as said players heap them with praise and money.
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If I found any charm offensive I would definitely complain. But do you understand that it is different for me to be offended because they added a political, prejudiced or religious symbol? are things that can really be unnecessary and offensive to the player.
But going deeper, we realize that the real reason for this discomfort, originates from what in your opinion?
They may even argue that it is political, that it is unnecessary to discuss such matters in video games, or that it is "" "offensive" "" in any way. But it is clear that the real reason is because of the discomfort of having representation and support for something they do not support.
it's simple and obvious, why don't you like a gay charm? because you don't like gays.
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Thanks for the answer. Your response is a logical one.
My point is not to make an apples to apples comparison regarding the definition of the subject, my point is to provide an example of another controversial topic. Whether homosexuality is political or an act of nature isn't relevant to the example. Something doesn't have to be one or the other to be wildly controversial.
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So you're fine playing a game where a malevolent Goddess takes people to torture them in an eternal cycle of life and death and rebirth, feeding off of their misery, but gay people is too far?
PS:
Matthew 22:39, "Love thy neighbour as thyself."
1 John 4:8, "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love."
1 John 4:20-21, "If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother."
Doing a real good job following the Bible there. Unconditional love for all, is that not what agape is? Did Jesus not die for our sins so we may love and forgive each other?
I hope you're living a perfect life free of all sin, because as Jesus said in John 8:7, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone".
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When I read comments below pride charm code yesterday, I've only seen enthusiasm, supportive commentary and irony about getting tunneled. Probably hate speech getting moderated quickly, or we were reading different twitters.
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My point is, its just a simple charm. Do you rather have this charm or don't have it? Its just a little support from the company, and yes, of course she cares(it may sound dumb), or they would not add this, because there is no beneficial thing in having this event, and you may even argue that they wanna bring lgbt players in to the game. But there is no way someone would want to play a game because the devs support their existence.
Im gay, and for more simple it may be, its always good to have lgbt support🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
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That is the most probable reason, yes. That or the person objecting is against homosexuality itself, OR is simply not comfortable having anything controversial in the game (to which, playing devil's advocate again, I would remind them that one can play a child-molesting murderer in this game, but that's a whole other topic).
Many people who defend homosexuality here do it very aggressively. That's your prerogative. I prefer a conversational approach, like this one, but I've noticed that it's often greeted with hostility regardless. I'm not out to get anybody. I'm not here to say you're wrong. I've been accused of "trying too hard" by repeatedly pointing out that I myself support homosexuality, so I'm going to try steering away from that.
I'm not trying to antagonize you, or anyone here. I'm really not. I'm also not interesting in defining anything. Not homosexuality, not racism, not politics, because those details aren't specifically correlated to what I've been trying to discuss, which is wondering how it would be if things were flipped around. In short:
- Why the hostility toward the gay charm is hard to understand
- Whether the situation would be the same if something else that was upsetting to some but not to others would provoke a similar reaction
But you answered, you said that if something offended you you would be complaining as well. That's all I wanted to know. It's not a "right" or "wrong" answer, I just wanted you to understand that because not everyone approves of homosexuality, there will be those people who are upset by things like this charm, regardless of how small, minor, or inoffensive it may seem to you. Similarly, like yourself, myself, and most others, there are things that would offend US if the tables were turned and such things were added to the game.
My purpose in this discussion was to simply try to find some middle ground of understanding.
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honestly I would have rather had a pride shirt for survivors charms are barely visible in gameplay
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"Strong beliefs against homosexuality" homophobia you mean? Im sorry but going against my existence is not a belief or a "strong opinion" for me, i don't care if it its related to religious stuff, its people who basicaly can't understand diferences and get mad about living in a diverse world.
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I don't mean to get into your religion because theological discussions are discouraged on this forum and it's your own personal business anyway, so I'll only ask (and I feel that people are welcome to have different viewpoints so please don't take this as an attack any more than I want the others to feel attacked): Is it strictly your Christian faith that makes the charm offensive to you, or would you prefer that there be no such iconography in the game at all? For example, if there were a crucifix charm, would you be okay with that?
Again, I mean no offense. The debate over this charm, and homosexual elements being in this game, is something that merely continues to intrigue me. I'd like to hear from both "sides".
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
There's a twitter that ISN'T the scourge of existence? :P
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Your social bubble is diferent from mine, that's why our twitter ins't the same.
you cleary say that because you din't notice people saying "cringe" on the anniversary livestream or tweets people saying they are going to tunnel people who use this charm.
I even get youtube coments calling me bad things and saying they are for sure tunneling people using this charm. You seen to ignore the amout of hate and homophobia this is going to bring to the game. Kinda off topic but whatever
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I've seen reference to people saying that they'd tunnel and specifically go after people wearing the charm as well. How do you think this can be countered?
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It can't. Not entirely.
However most homophobes I know cannot keep their mouths shut. They'll slip up eventually. At which point you drop the ban hammer.
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As a bisexual player, do you feel that it would have been better not having the charm at all? Do you think that a different gesture would have been better?
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Well put.
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It's kinda sad seeing people say that nobody cares about representation or the charm, because there are definitely people I know who care for both. If not obvious I'm a massive advocate for good representation across as many things as possible, and this charm makes me so unbelievably happy it's actually almost worrying.
Tl;Dr you don't speak for everyone, stop saying that everyone does/doesn't care for things.
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Omg i love you
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I'm too late to talk in this thread but all I can say is...
...nice username. BIG BIG CHUNGUS BIG CHUNGUS BIG CHUNGUS WHOLESOME 100
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Gay.
:P
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Right but name calling will help right?
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That's the problem, there is not a way. I don't support when they say they are going ban people who tunnel survivors with this charm because there is no way to know if its because of the charm.
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I'm worried about this myself. There are so many players who tunnel as it is, people wearing the charm may misinterpret their actions. Then there are people who will deliberately tunnel players wearing the charm and get away with it by claiming ignorance (and the charm IS relatively small).
This will be an interesting time for the game.
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"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us."
Forgiveness is part of agape, unconditional love. Understanding and non-judgement is part of agape, part of love.
And once more, "he that is without sin among you may cast the first stone".
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
Don't anger an rs student when one of the topic they specialise in is religious views on homosexuality as it transpires 😭😭
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Hahahahaha
You homophobe 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😠😠😠
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Hello, someone with a christian family and is also Pan, heads up that literally nobody except 1 grandma cares about my sexuality and thats it
So many things in the bible prove these wrong as well, and I know for a fact you read the bible if you pulled these up so come on, show us what you decided to ignore that the Bible shows that god loves all of his children, instead of going for the rights :)
Post edited by Rizzo on3
