Am I the only one who finds the DBD Discord problematic?
We all know that SWFs are generally overpowered, with coms allowing survivors to essentially add 4+ perks to the whole team plus some additional benefits not available to survivors otherwise; and we know the devs want to buff solo survivors to be on par with 3-4 man SWFs. But Am I the only one who finds BHVR continuously nerfing killers or making weak killers and then handing a tool to all survivors generally to make them even more powerful?
Asking because today has been nothing but 4 man SWFs for me and I'm talking a full mixture of console/Microsoft store and steam players. The game get's pretty old when in almost every game 4 gens are gone in 3 minuets and you only have a handful of hooks.
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While comms do provide an advantage, they don't provide as big of an advantage as you are thinking. Individual survivors still need to be good at the game otherwise comms won't do much.
Also I doubt you were facing constant 4 man SWFs all night. While you likely had some SWFs in lobbies, they weren't all 4 mans.
If you were constantly losing 4 gens in 3 minutes all night, then you likely were making plenty of mistakes in your early chases not allowing you to build up pressure.
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The game gets pretty old when in almost every game 3 Survivors are dead at 5 gens.
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Continuous killer nerfs?
You mean like the Wraith buffs we just recently got, the Demo buffs, the decisive and OoO nerfs, the hugely buffed Leatherface...
Yeah, continuous nerfs.
Both sides get constantly buffed and nerfs.
This game is multiplayer, people have a right to play with their friends, and not only are SWF's rarer then 'every game', but not every one is some sweaty powerhouse.
Can SWF have an advantage? Yes. Does that mean we should ban all SWF? No.
Killers have an advantage over Solo Queue. Should we ban killers that go sweaty against Solo Queue?
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Your statement is fallacious:
Killer does not have advantage over solo que, it has been proven time and time again that Survivors are more powerful than the killer, both in the 1v1 and the 4v1. Killers have advantages only over survivors who do not know how to loop well and who are not efficient on generators.
SWF's allow survivors to provide themselves with a lot more information than they are intended to have and allows them to coordinate in ways the game does not allow. This provides an immense advantage over the killer who does not have any such benefit. Imagine if Killers could see all survivors auras at all times and knew what generators were at what percentage without having use a perk, or even if the entity would constantly block survivors from breaking their lit totems. The balance of the game would swing so drastically in favor of the killer that survivors would not strand much of a chance except at the highest level of play. So yes, SWFs do make a difference, just because some SWFs waste all their time bitching about a killer who downs them doesn't change the fact that SWFs make survivors unduly overpowered, create a situation of boosted and entitled survivors, and is very unfair for killer.
Remember the game was not designed around survivors being in coms and coordinated groups. Even after it's been allowed, nothing has been done to help balance the game, instead the devs have allowed for the game's balance to swing wildly in favor of survivors.
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I'm in agreement that the actual comms really doesn't do that much. It's more the fact that 3 - 4 good players are in a match over the advantage that comms actually gives you. Also the "swf" problem will be solved with MMR. The people who swf all the time will be at the top of the ranks facing nurses and spirits if it really gives them that much of an advantage.
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Hate to comment again, but every single killer in red rank has well over a 50% kill rate in the average solo que game. Killers are way favored according to the statistics.
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which statistics? the meaningless ones used by the devs that don't actually prove anything because they are full of variables and devoid of context? while you're at it let's buff Nurse. remember, those same statistics say that nurse is under performing.
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This is why i almost feel like corrupted intervention should get a rework to block all gens for a less amount of time maybe. Tho i do admit it could be abused in that form
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Actually the do provide a significant advantage. One player says to another, "hey I found a lit totem. it's at location x in case I get chased off of it...hey I just got chased off it, go get it quick!" or "My gen is like 90% finished, was just chased off it, still in chase. go get it" or "I'm being face camped, they have insidious, just do gens" or "my distortion just went off, killer has BBQ" or "watch out for lockers, killer has iron maiden" and etc. etc. etc. etc. I can go on and on for days about the type of information that can and is made available to SWFs in comms that isn't available to them or wouldn't be available to them or shouldn't be available to them. If you really don't believe SWF with comms is overpowered, then you don't play killer enough or at all.
Also MMR would not do anything to SWF groups. do you know how often I see survivors d/c because they don't like a certain killer, or are so entitled that they rage quit after being downed first? or simple throw matches so that they derank because they don't want to deal with Nurse, Spirit, or Billy who knows how to deal with their group-boosted antics?
Occasionally, I 2-man with a friend of mine. Games are significantly easier for the both of us because we can coordinate. I am rank 1 solo and with a friend so I can tell you I'm not one of these group-boosted types. But yes, SWF with comms is factually over powered, just because some squander the use of the tools allowed doesn't make it weak or ineffective.
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abused how? by sending survivors sprawling across the amp looking for totems? corrupt intervention is a double edged sword. killers who use it are taking a gamble blocking, often, less than desirable generators and leaving more important ones exposed or signaling to survivors that its time for a bone hunt. Corrupt only works well for certain killers with certain play styles.
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" Active trap on the shack window - ruine is near the sacrificial tree - he run tinkerer, spirit furry and bamboozle - there is a key in the basement chest...)
It's not that big for sure.
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Makes me wonder if all "killer mains" complaining about swf don't even have friends so they wouldn't know that it is so much more fun playing with friends, regardless if it gives you an advantage or not. If not for swf, this game would be dead a long time ago. I was introduced to it solely because of friends who wanted me to play with them. And since then I even started playing more killer than survivor. Anyways, at this point removing swf would be a death sentence for this game and the only thing they can do is to buff solo q. Personally, I don't care because I don't "sweat" my games that much and just try to have a good time. I also don't play dbd 24/7, that helps I guess.
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no. people should be able to play with friends. "banning swf" or comms is ridiculous.
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Love how your response to an issue that's also been killing dbd, albeit more slowly, is [paraphrased] "Killer mains don't have friends". How about killer mains just say that survivor mains suck at the game so hard that they can't play without all the crutches, second chances, and handholding? at least one statement has more evidence to support it and it isn't yours.
I love how your solution is also to buff solo queue and not to nerf SWF groups based on number of players in the group or to buff killers based on the number of players in a group. Buffing solo queue to be on par with SWF is literally the exact opposite of a solution. That's taking an already unfairly powerful side and making it more powerful because SWFs are significantly more powerful. Survivors don't need more buffs, the devs have been holding the survivors hands for years and, worse, the head of balance isn't even a good survivor so the game is "balanced" around rank 15-20 survivors in solo queue.
In all seriousness though, the point of the topic is to highlight how unbalanced the game is, a core problem causing the balance issues, and how behavior is doing the exact opposite to solve it.
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I agree that banning SWF would be ridiculous since the core population of the game (toxic, entitled survivor mains) would go back to whatever pvp game they can "win" through abusive numbers and cheap tactics (something like rust or day z).
Personally I'm a fan of mandatory localized chat. this way when survivors are immersed and relaying information on the killer the killer would be able to hear them regardless of what third party software they are using, so no more psychic survivors, at least not safe ones. Of course this is because the devs won't commit to any reasonable chances, such as balancing the game around high rank SWFs in comms instead of low rank/beginner solos.
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>it's proven that killer doesn't have an advantage on soloqueue
Case dismissed
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I wish I could talk to solo queue survivors so I could ask them why they refuse to touch a generator even when the killer is not on them.
A player's skill isn't measured by how much information they have via comms only by their actions and choices. Someone suddenly knowing that a hex totem is inside shack isn't going to magically teach them how to loop shack. Having the killer on me isn't going to force someone to touch a generator, yeah even the 99'd gen they got off of when they heard a heartbeat. These are just a couple of things that make solo queue a hell mode queue.
So while we are all in agreement that swf has a bit more information than solo queue survivors, this isn't the reason why solo queue is a mess. It is a mess because they lack experience, you can clearly see this through the ranks the game decides to put you with ( a rank 2 with a rank 20??) and their movement (throws a god pallet down immediately after getting hit). Those are the things you look out for in bad teammates.
I also don't understand what "handing survivors tools" means. I would need a little more clarification about that, because as far as I am concerned survivors have received nerfs/buffs as much as killers have.
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I would remove soloQ!
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In this game, information is king, what others are able to do with that information is on them. Just as you said, player skill does matter, this is why Killer seems so powerful at low ranks, we all know this, a Killer's performance is also heavily dependent the survivor's mistakes and lack of map knowledge. That said, apples to apples, low rank killers against low rank survivors are at more of a disadvantage because that information gives survivors up to 5 different perks and then some that are normally not available to them. Even then, low rank players might not know how best to act on that information but what about mid and upper ranks? what about red ranks?
I feel like you are doing exactly what Almo does, factor the strength of something around the bottom rank players. More than any exhaustion perk, information has helped me to go entire games without seeing a hook...or even knowing where to intercept a killer to take a hook for my teammates who are on dead hook.
By "handing survivors tools" I mean specifically their own discord and the endless number of "SWF" channels. Can't find a 4 man SWF? they provide a place to find one yourself. And, yes, I am aware that if not them someone else would do it but that's wholly irrelevant because the issue is BHVR is doing it themselves knowing they are setting up situations where killers are going to be significantly disadvantaged and/or bullied.
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So how do you come up with the conclusion that information trumps anything that could tilt the match one way or the other? Because as I’ve already said, it doesn’t matter if you know the killer is on someone else, if you aren’t doing anything productive you are bringing your team down. I don’t care how much information you have, this is fact.
Having information at red ranks hardly means anything because you are more experienced and capable of dealing with the killer on a 1v1 scenario. You know there are still potatoes in red ranks right? Like legit worse than green ranks who still urban their way through ranks.
Im not sure how BHVR allowed access to discord to survivors because I am pretty sure discord was already being used, and it isn’t something that BHVR owns either. Anyway, I only asked because on the context you brought it up it sounded as if there were more examples.
I play in red ranks all the time and I see solo queue survivors destroying as much if not more than SWF teams.
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That I even need to explain this is, frankly, evidence that you do not play up at red ranks as much as you claim. At red ranks a team of 4 survivors using information well means that one person is looping while 3 are doing generators. This is the type of team who ends games within 4 minuets on a slow day. At higher ranks, survivors know and understand more about the game, and helping each other know when to run away means ensuring much a much greater head start than the killer's TR gives. It also means hooked survivors can alert otehr survivors of traps that have been placed near them or if a killer is stealthing and they are not being camped; you know, information that survivors shouldn't have because there are no perks that offer such. The fact that you don't understand what coordination is and how it impacts DBD tells me you are not a red rank killer.
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Back in the day before survive with friends was added to the game people would leave and rejoin lobbies until they found their friend. The game is bigger now and that's harder to do but that's why SWF was added; to stop lobby dodges.
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Those statistics also say that nurse is the worst killer (by like over 15% kill rate) in the game and needs buffs
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That's because she's hard to play. And she still has over a 50% kill rate, even by the statistics she doesn't need buffs, she gets more kills than escapes.
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That's my point precisely though. Those statistic don't mean much. Hell, they think pig is like 3rd best killer? Come on...
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Stats show the killers rank. But not the survivors. Between the rainbow ranks and the challenges where survivors hook bomb, those stats get blown out of proportion.
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They were trash then.
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Oni, Death Slinger, PH, Blight, Twins, Trickster. 6 of the last 7 killers have not been weak ar all.
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Good Survivors DO NOT need coms to know that there is always someone being chased and they should be doing gens.
In what instance exactly does a good Survivor run away from a gen before the Killer's TR even approaches, and because of coms?????
That is laughable.
Good Survivors do have the information of who the Killer is, what their power is, and if it's likely there are traps around a hook WITHOUT USING COMS.
In your original post you state that your day has been a mixture of console/microsoft store/steam players.
In what world is it even remotely likely for a player playing on console to be on coms with someone that is playing on PC???
This right here basically shows that you are an inexperienced Killer unwilling to accept that there are better players than yourself playing the game.
With or without coms.
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Players tend to blame SWF when they get a bad match, truth is that SWF teams make up only like 10% (or less) of the overall population, it is very unlikely to go against a SWF team match after match, most of the times you are gonna be playing versus 4 solo survivors.
The thing here is that people sometimes don't want to accept they just had a bad match (or a streak of bad matches) true for example started blaming a ''SWF squad'' on one of his streams when he lost a match like a week ago, then when people investigated about it it turns out it wasn't a SWF team, they were just randoms who played really well and true had to back down and admit he played bad, but most people don't want to admit that, they rather give an excuse like ''they had an advantage over me'' than admit they played bad.
it is very unlikely that you had multiple matches against SWF, you can't even tell that they were SWF unless you got screenshots of them admitting in the end game chat that they actually were.
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then why play with them? if I have to carry like solo, I’m playing solo.
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Others have addressed the whole SWF v Solo thing so I won't repeat that. What I will speak on is your comment about them giving survivors "the tools".
The DBD discord was a thing long before the devs had any involvement with it. It was so popular that the devs requested to be involved with it (rather than attempting to create another and potential attempt to rival a strong discord server).
They didn't give the tools. They joined those who were doing it anyway...
edit: typos
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There are two related issues here.
First the game was originally intended to be for 4 solo survivors against a killer hence the lack of ways to communicate in-game for survivors. Which so long as all survivors are solos is not that hard to balance Killers around.
Second, the Devs introduced SWF and even encouraged it on their own Discord. SWF effectively gives those players the equivalent of 15+ free information perks over solo players which leads to a huge disparity between solo and group survivor players. So any Killer that is balanced to be able to cope with SWF teams will absolutely decimate solo teams. The Devs did promise to help close the gap between solo and SWF teams but so far nothing has happened.
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Some people find the game more enjoyable as a social experience. I have friends I play the game with who aren’t great and make stupid plays, and in fact playing with others makes me make more stupid plays too due to over-altruism and being distracted, but it doesn’t matter to me because I like them and enjoy chatting to them while we play.
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Discord can be problematic, but what about Reddit users that think they resolve about themselves giving you negative karma over your first post.
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This is a crazy take, to me. comms absolutely add a HUGE advantage, especially with good players. being able to leave someone on a hook and get another 50% on a gen is huge ... knowing where stealth killers are or traps are is huge. I respectfully think you are underestimating how strong it can be. It obviously still matters how they communicate and what their experience is.. but the potential advantage can easily double the efficiency of a team.
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Good survivors may not need coms, but they do provide a significant advantage. People who are good at shooters don't need infinite ammo with no reloading, but it would provide them with a significant advantage over other competition. And there are many instances where good survivors run away before the Killer's TR approaches them.
For example: three survivors are attacking three critical generators mid/late game. If killer commits to chase two generators and the game is lost for one hook. These survivors relay to each other when the killer came to them, leaves them and in which direction they went. This information ensures that survivors can always place themselves in a situation where they can set themselves up at safe loops and jungle gyms before the killer can initiate chase. This puts the survivor so far out of the killer's reach that choosing to chase means throwing the entire game. Good survivors with coms make for a more coordinated playstyle and thus moments like this, where a team of survivors can freely plow through generators with little or no threat from any killer. I cannot tell you how many matches I lost because of this. That you call this laughable tells me that you don't play killer much at all and especially not at high levels.
Good survivors do not always have information on the location of the killer, as you claim, unless they are hacking or otherwise cheating (i.e. stretch screen). Experience my provide good survivors with the knowledge to sus out what a killer's perks are but a coordinated team sharing information makes that even easier and faster to deduce, thus survivors can adapt much much more quickly. And for your information, I play trapper at high levels, I will hardly trap anyone who is in a group that is communicating the location of traps and it's easy to tell when people are, especially when I place traps in commonly traveled but rarely trapped areas.
also in what world do console players, Microsoft store/xbox players, and pc players form a SWF with coms? you ask. Why in a world where the devs of DBD provide them with a discord they can all connect to and find each other to form a swf. leading back to my original question.
"This right here basically shows that you are an inexperienced killer unwilling to accept that there are better players than yourself playing the game"....*Laughs in rank 1 killer* your whole rant demonstrates that you don't actually play killer much at all or even at high ranks since you've never experienced any sort of situation that has been described or even understand what exactly the other killer players have been talking about when they share their experiences. *Also laughs in Rank 1 survivor* I play both roles, I know from personal experience on both sides just how powerful coms can be from groups as small as a 2 man all the way to a four man. I've seen how good information sharing helps people at yellow ranks trounce killers at purple ranks with some ease and avoid getting caught by red rank killers long enough for generators to fly before the killer can respond. I also play solo survivor, in fact I reach rank one each season primarily playing solo. My point being, you have done nothing but demonstrate yourself to be at the height of ignorance and are merely projecting when you say that I am inexperienced. I'm not going to sit here and sell you that I'm some top% player in dbd, in either role, there certainly are better players than me, but you don't need me to tell you that, however here's where my rank does matter: I can demonstrate that I know what I am talking about from experience on both sides. All you sound like is some boosted, trolly survivor main.
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I have. they are social but outside of a few high strung newbies (who are getting sweaty at rank 20 and complaining that killer is OP because they can't repeat how Otz or Tru3 play when they survivor), some self admitted toxic players who I changed lobbies on, and one very proud and admitted Nazi from Germany people were still sharing information that would be otherwise unavailable to them: "trap is here", "I just ran by lit totem at X but I'm being chased", "Killer left me at Y location headed towards Z, watch out". Even that casual information gives undue advantages to the whole group. Like I said, I spent a day (8+ hours) playing with a friend and two randos on the forums and even at it's most casual there was information being exchanged pretty regularly in between casual banter.
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If SWF made up only 10% of all the matches in the game then it wouldn't have been such a big deal that the devs added it to literally save the game. Not sure where you are getting your information from, but if you are willing to believe that then I have a bridge to sell you...
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I was not aware of this as I was recently introduced to it.
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Communication is the biggest part of teamwork. Its part of the game. A TEAM of survivors trying to escape a killer.
It would be silly to have a teamwork based game and not have the ability to speak to one another. It dosnt throw the game does it? It speed up any progression on objectives? Make them faster?
All it literally does it allow survivors to be aware.
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Ehm what your are talking about with that percentage are pure 4 men swf. 2- or 3- swf are not the minority but the majority of groups especially in the evenings. As a personal anecdote I checked all survivor on a Saturday evening for 15 games on PC where I can see their respective friends lists. There were twelve 3 men, one double 2 men, one 4 men and one group of 4 pure consoleplayers so I couldn't check.
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Dbd I and killer especially is not a game to wind down after a day of work and most people know that. If there weren't people that like to play killer, be it for playing their favourite horror icon or something, this game would not work.
And while it is okay to let friends play together and it being impossible to avoid communication outside of the game, it is still an undeniable one-sided option for a potential advantage against the already more demanding and stressful role of juggling attention between 4 opponents on minimum 7 objectives (only gens not counting totems or hooked survivor).
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When they last released stats for SWF (over a year ago now) it showed just under half of all survs were in at least a 2-man, with 3- and 4-man's much less common.
Since then it makes sense that ratio must have grown, because of the game being free-to-play very often on the consoles, the lockdown, and how lovely & fun solo queue is right now.
So I'd say more than half of all survs are in some combo of SWF.
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Been Banned from that Discord for 2yrs and I still see it as a blessing
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I see you are selling a bridge that some one else sold you, and you fell for it apparently, if we investigated and tuned out most of them were solo you'd still put up an excuse.
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...You still need to play well, and the perks you listed are going to be things that are probably going to be shown off pretty quickly anyway.
Information doesn't magically give Survivors the key to escape every game. Sure, it helps, but they still need to be either decent at chases or evasion (usually both) and have good coordination. And even against a SWF group, the chances of you having not made a single mistake that game that you can look back on and try to improve is pretty low.
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This. Comms just allows a team to optimise time in the way solos can't.
4 crap loopers on comms will still lose against a good killer.
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