Borrowed Time & Bubba

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I've noticed in several games, that unhooking someone with borrowed time still gets them killed by Bubba's ability. It does block the first tantrum swing, but then they go down when the second connects. The sprint burst is often insufficient to make enough distance.

A basement Bubba is frustrating enough, so having borrowed time active should at least grant a temporary escape. Maybe the invincibility could last for the whole duration of BT and not be gone after the first hit or have at least a few seconds of i-frames after the first hit. For the duration of the typical M1 swing cooldown for example.

The point of the perk is to prevent being downed instantly after being unhooked, not to delay it by half a second.

What's your opinion on that?

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Comments

  • TragicSolitude
    TragicSolitude Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 6,884
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    It's Bubba's power. Some killers have powers that counter certain survivor perks. It used to be that Undetectable and the Oblivious status effect countered Borrowed Time, which meant a bunch of perks and killer powers rendered Borrowed Time useless.

    Now, for countering BT, it's just Bubba and... does Oni's Demon Strike still counter Borrowed Time? That's strong, having the only counters to a perk being Bubba and maybe Oni. Even the Exposed status effect doesn't counter BT.

  • Toblerone007
    Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598
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    You should be getting enough distance to make to a window after the first one connects if playing correctly. The perk is already serving its purpose and being granted 12 seconds of unlimited hits is a terrible solution. Imagine the level of body blocking every match because you cannot go down.

    Solution here is to not unhook when Bubba is right there and start popping gens. If Bubba wants to win the match, he has to leave the hook.

  • whereismykebab
    whereismykebab Member Posts: 228
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    Not quite, vaulting a window will usually get you hit a second time. Yes, invincibility for the whole 12 seconds might be bad, but if it's like for the duration of the typical cooldown, not sure what it's called, the time the killer whipes the weapon after a hit. Basically just enough to block the second swing.

    As a solo there is no way of knowing if Bubba is still there or not or maybe waiting just out of range of Kindred. I don't think not unhooking against a Bubba is a good play in general. I was once left dying in the basement while the Bubba was chasing someone on the other side of the map, but the other two assumed he was camping.

  • Luciferr_2nd
    Luciferr_2nd Member Posts: 911
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    Not that hard - I wish my solo Q teammates knew how to do this :(

  • PureHostility
    PureHostility Member Posts: 708
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    You don't understand what "taking the game hostage" is...

    It is ANYTHING but what you said. If player whose actions are limited or completely hindered due to actions of another player can finish the game in one way or another without a requirement to forcefully terminate a game by using esc-> leave game or alt +f4, they are not being taken hostage.


    Even if sacrifice time would take 30 minutes to complete and you had Bubba camping you for that amount of time, it still wouldn't be the case. As long as at some point game ends by itself (sacrifice, bleed out timer, EGC timer), there is no hostage situation at all.

    Stop it.

    If you are doing well in a chase you are not going to get downed.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Preventing survivors from being saved and getting altruism points which are crucial to pipping at red ranks is absolutely taking the game hostage. Not talking about proxy camping, but full on face camping with Bubba shouldn’t be allowed, there’s no reason for it and it creates a toxic community.

    You can do well in a chase, and still get downed. Bubba shreds through pallets quickly, even if you greed, he takes no skill to play and if you run him around for five gens, there will barely be any pallets in endgame.

  • Brhoom
    Brhoom Member Posts: 241
    edited June 2021
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    Please stop spewing this nonsense, a camping Bubba getting an early down means an EZ 4k for him with noed and bitter murmur.


    Again, this myth of camping means a loss for the killer because the team didn't rush gens is nothing but lies disproven by Otz and multiple forum members here who main Bubba as a camping killer

  • PureHostility
    PureHostility Member Posts: 708
    edited June 2021
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    You still don't understand what taking the game hostage is.

    That's like calling a killer tunneler and face camper because he is still on the same map as you after you were unhooked.


    Sucks to be camped, killer wants to kill you and that's it. Let 3 others escape as you buy the time.


    I think you feel extreme entitled to things that sometimes may be out of your grasp and you start blaming others or accusing the falsely.

    Why are you doing that? What's the point? Are you trying to imitate Sluzzy?

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    It's an instant de-pip if you counter it.

    No shame in admitting you can't.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    I hope you realise how condescending you’re coming across. There’s not a dictionary definition of ‘taking the game hostage’, I can believe facecamping Bubba counts for it, you don’t have to.

    This has nothing to do w entitlement or feeling that I deserve to escape. There’s a problem in a game where I depip because a LF chases me for five gens, then facecamps me. There’s many simple solutions to fix this, and change it so that at worst the killer can proxy you, and not facecamp. Idc about proxying, but a game that doesn’t punish someone for standing still is just silly.

  • PureHostility
    PureHostility Member Posts: 708
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    Devs already stated what it is in one of their ancient twitch streams. So it is You who is skewing its definition.

    I also already told you what it is in my first post. You seem just too stubborn to try to understand it.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    I think it is, don’t really care if you don’t quite frankly. As I said, there’s no dictionary definition, it is subjective. I don’t think being in favour of a game where killers can stand still is a good hill to die on.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233
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    Well you dont have to get the unhook if hes that close to the hook, it's okay for someone to die at times. But iv had survivors try unhook midchases when I'm bubba, like sorry but I'm gonna capitalize on your bad play... I can't always afford free unhooks

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Developers have put many unfair & unfun mechanics in the game over the years, they aren’t infallible. The thing, you’re turning this entire argument to be about a definition, rather than addressing the fact that survivors are being punished for performing well in the chase. It’s fine if you never go down in a chase every game, but 99.9% of people will go down from time to time.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Good for them, doesn’t mean I can’t believe that standing still at the hook as Bubba shouldn’t be allowed. There is a massive difference between camping and standing still at the hook.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    You do have to unhook if you want to pip or not depip at red rank lol

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    Then you're blatantly wrong and refusing factual evidence.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/62203/holding-the-game-hostage/p1

    Ergo, your argument has no meaning and is therefore useless.

    Enjoy :)

  • PureHostility
    PureHostility Member Posts: 708
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    It is exactly the same.

    You could argue it is a facecamping, even though it isn't possible anymore since introduction of "rotary hooks".

    There is also proxy camping (soft camping) and hard camping. But if you don't like subcategories for camping, standing at the hook or nearby of a hooked person is nothing more but just camping.

    That's literally the gaming definition of camping...

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    What factual evidence? Can you give statistics or reasoning for how BHVR determined what is ‘taking the game hostage’? I’m completely capable of understanding the current rules, I am merely advocating for them to be revisited to create a less toxic game for everyone.

    Same as the other guy, you really need to grow up and not be condescending when people disagree with you. :)

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Rotary hooks are irrelevant for Bubba, as his attack can cover the entire hook and instadown. Obviously, a face camping Trapper isn’t going to cause the same issue. It’s specifically with Bubba that there is a problem, as a Bubba facecamping on his first down is making it extremely hard for survivors to pip. Killers shouldn’t have this control over the pipping system of the other side.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233
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    Only if you're bad... there are 3 other categories to get emblems in, altruism is the easiest to get up as well so you really wont need to. However players that arent as good tend to constantly go for saves/heals because they struggle with chases and gens

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Can’t get altruism or boldness if the killer is standing still on the first hook. I’d love to max chase out every time, but I can’t when killers refuse to chase people other than the hooked person. To pip at red rank, you need to get gold in each category, or equivalent depending on iridescent. It’s the same nonsense as a killer spawning in and being afk the whole time, you have to go around cleansing dull totems and run around the killer to not depip.

  • Gwinty
    Gwinty Member Posts: 981
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    Ah yes, the usual Bubba complain.

    Tell then, oh survivor, is it not holding the game hostage to constantly bodyblock the Killer on the way to the hook, to chain lightburn them and to not open the exit gates and to get away?


    Basment camping Bubba is a bad Bubba. That chainsaw is an extremly versatile and useful ability and to use it only for camping shows that you did not understand the Killer. It is like only using Spirits ability for map mobility. You complain about a Killer not using his ability effective.

    "... he takes no skill to play ..."

    Doubt. Bubba is not easy to play against a good survivor. Also his ability has some mechanics you need to learn. He is "easy" as in "easy to learn" but he is not "no skill", he takes medium effort to master. Stop the nonsense just because you do not like a Killer

    .

    Also suvivors are to blame themselv sometimes. As Bubba it is quiet frequently that I chase someone and after I missed a chainsaw (2 charges) and lower it (you know, the little animation), they run to the hook. When I reach them I ram myself into the hook to trigger a trantrum and even thou they see me reving they go for the unhook. Consider: They led me here. I was chasing them and they came to their hooked teammate and try to unhook him. And then they blame the Bubba for "camping" and "tunneling".

    Standing still in front of the hook is a debatable thing. I think it is useless as even when I am forced to camp (all gates open, one guy on the hook, open map, no hill or basement) I constantly move and look around to spot the survivors. And standing still with Insidious is just no fun for me. As I said, that is a bad Bubba.

    We can talk about a point deduction for doing so: Less chaser and less sacrifice points for standing still within a radius to the hook. That way bad Bubbas would not rank up and the game would tell them that their way of playing is just trash.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    It is upon you, the one who wants change, to provide proof for your claims.

    BHVR has consistently said tunneling, camping and slugging are a part of the game.

    You want the rules to change based off of your own subjective feelings, not based off of any evidence I suspect.

    If so, can we ban doing 3 gens in under 4 minutes? It's toxic and unfair to Killers as it denies them emblem points. :)

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    All these arguments are extremely easy to dismantle, which I will gladly do.

    1. Bodyblocking the killer is extremely risky for survivors to do, and will fail almost every time fail in solo queue. I’m not talking about SWF, because it has nothing to do w me as I only play duo occasionally. There are MANY perks to counter altruism wrt bodyblocking. Namely starstruck, infection, agitation, etc. The only perk for survivors to help with facecamping is deliverance which is useless if you get chased first, and requires you to use DS too or you’ll get put right back on the hook. Same with flashlight saves, but they’re even easier to deal with than bodyblocking. A killer has to play poorly to be blinded when picking up, which is fair balance.
    2. I’m fully aware that Bubba is at strongest when not standing still, I’m not arguing that facecamping is too strong, only that it’s extremely unfun for the survivor and they will very likely depip when it isn’t their fault.
    3. I am currently a survivor main, but until recently was a killer main. I played Bubba quite a lot, and he absolutely is extremely easy to play. I don’t mind this, as this ease of use doesn’t translate to 4ks every game like Spirit. Nowhere have I ever argued Bubba is too strong.
    4. What you describe in your example is not facecamping, and not at all related to what I am discussing. My complaints are exclusively with standing still at the hook.
    5. Yes, I am fine with punishing Bubba’s more for facecamping without it being bannable as long as it’s effective. I also think deliverance should give you BT, but that’s another discussion.
  • whereismykebab
    whereismykebab Member Posts: 228
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    The game isn't taken hostage, just the one survivor as there are multiple ways of ending the game. You also can't get chase emblems if only the first survivor got chased. Two remaining survivors hiding in bushes would be taking it hostage or getting the killer stuck and not doing anything.

    This wasn't really meant to be a discussion on the ethics of basement Bubbas.

    Of course it's a bad play to loop the killer close to the hook, the unhooker should definitely be punished. But the unhooked person should be able to get a bit of distance with BT imo instead of getting instadowned again. It's not their fault they got hook farmed, so I'd say it would be nice to have a bit of invencibility to survive the second swing.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Killers have a huge amount of perks to prevent gens popping early, so the comparison doesn’t really work. SWF gen rushing I’m not going to discuss, because as I said above, has nothing to do with me. I play solo queue, and occasionally casual duo.

    Never said anything about slugging, camping or tunnelling (at least not when the tunnelling isn’t after a facecamp). Slugging is one of the fairest mechanics in the game. I feel like you’re trying to skew my words, and portray me as an unreasonable survivor main, when I’m literally just advocating for more punishments for killers who stand still.

  • CashelP14
    CashelP14 Member Posts: 5,564
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    Think people just need to be mindful of where the basement is when facing a Bubba.

    Camping Bubbas are annoying but unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    They already de-pip and Survivors can easily 2E if not 3E.

    Why do you want to punish new/bad players so much?

  • Brhoom
    Brhoom Member Posts: 241
    edited June 2021
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    Unless the team is a 4 man swf, the game is a loss, especially with an early-down (even SWF will lose)

    Otz proved it, multiple Bubba mains here proved it (all red ranks with +50 4k win streaks)

    The thread was made because this ''strat'' is uncounterable.


    Learn how to argue with other members instead of being rude.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    Otz is just a guy.

    I've had the complete opposite experience. Facecamping is an instant loss for any Killer. 3 gens pop for 1 Kill.

    This is a classic new player issue. There's no harm nor shame in admitting that.

    Most experienced Survivors do not have issues with Facecamping Killers

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Because this isn’t an issue with new players. This is happening frequently at red ranks. I agree, it’s complicated and we need to be mindful of newer players, but killers at red rank should know better. It’s quite common for games to have a code of ethics for players to agree to, and this should be looked into for DBD.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Doesn’t matter how many hours you have in the game, you can’t magically get yourself off the hook with a facecamping killer. The other survivors will have waited 10 minutes in a queue to just sit on gens all game. Also, a lot of survivors, including myself don’t want our team to have a miserable experience with a killer who has somehow reached red rank despite having no idea how to play.

    Otz clearly isn’t a new player, and neither am I. I have 500 hours in the game, and yes I’m sure others will have more, but that certainly isn’t ‘new’. We can be good at the game and still think facecamping is an issue.

  • Viktor1853
    Viktor1853 Member Posts: 932
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  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Already addressed this point multiple times, read the thread. ‘Taking the game hostage’ is a subjective area that was set by BHVR, and I can debate it, as can you agree W/ it.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    I haven't seen a facecamper in a LONG time. 6+ months. It really isn't an issue in Red Ranks.

    You just want people to play a certain way. It's like banning t-bagging.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233
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    Please dont act like killers camp first hook every game, rank means very little and I know how it works. Iv been rank 1 4+ years. You can easily safety at red ranks providing you can actually play and understand the game

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    500 hours is sort of new, definitely not brand new but not super experienced either.

    You clearly had a bad game and need time to cool off. You refuse to consider any other points and are completely missing the bigger picture.

  • Brhoom
    Brhoom Member Posts: 241
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    Your argument is that your experience somehow means more than multiple Bubba mains on this forum... ok.

    If the Bubba gets an early-down, there isn't enough time to finish all gens, cleanse all totems to prevent the noed and/or bitter murmur combo, and alert all survivors that I'm being camped.

    There isn't enough time.

    Unless this is a tryhard 4 man swf the game is over. The only time I have survived this was with a 3 swf game where I was flashlight saved and lucky noed spawn.

    I thought you would know this since you're an experienced survivor and we are all classic new players.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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    Nah, my actual argument is that it's so uncommon it doesn't really matter.

    It probably occurs about as often as a deathsquad SWF.

  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    This isn’t me having an issue, the games recently were my teammates being facecamped, it’s not fair or fun after waiting forever in the queue.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,725
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  • WexlerWendigo
    WexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867
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    Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. As I said, I am not SWF so anything regarding that has nothing to do with me. Solo survivor is weaker than killer, or at the very worst, even.

  • Vyne456
    Vyne456 Member Posts: 848
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    Then if the killer's facecamp, why not just have a core mechanic that the killer facecamps the sacrifice hook when somebody is on it the sacrifice progress just stays still.