A list of Twins changes not mentioned in the patch notes
So, as you know, Twins was changed in the latest mid-chapter patch. Victor's stun after a down was increased to 5 seconds, Charlotte has more camera control during a wake-up, et cetera. But there are three changes that were made to the Twins this patch that the patch notes DID NOT mention in any way. I scoured the patch notes, reviewed recordings of playing and testing Twins from before the release, and just generally did my homework. There were two nerfs and a buff applied to Twins in the 4.7.0 mid-chapter that don't show up ANYWHERE in the patch notes.
- Charlotte now loses collision after being dormant for 30 seconds. This means that if Charlotte stays asleep for 30 seconds or more, Survivors can walk through her and she loses her ability to bodyblock. This was an entire paragraph of coding that was added and simply not mentioned.
- Victor's pounces now consume Play With Your Food tokens. Before this patch, Twins had extremely good synergy with Play With Your Food because Victor wasn't technically considered a "Killer" by the game's coding, meaning you could both switch to Victor while chasing the obsession to gain PWYF tokens, and pounce on Survivors without using them up. This might not seem like a big nerf, but the synergy Twins had with PWYF before the patch was seriously insane. A Charlotte with 3 PWYF and 8 STBFL tokens was one of the scariest things you could make from the Twins. I would even argue that PWYF was Twins' best Perk. But this synergy was removed when they made Victor's pounces use up tokens in the midchapter, a change that isn't listed anywhere in either the Twins changes or bug fixes sections.
- Charlotte now remains stealthy for 1.5 seconds after waking up. Before the patch, when you switched back to Charlotte, her red stain and Terror Radius would come back as soon as you were playing as her. Now, they remain suppressed for about 1.5 seconds after waking up, which is about half of the wake-up animation.
Even though one of these changes was a nice buff to Charlotte, I'm still very disappointed in BHVR for making these three rather substantial changes to the Twins and not mentioning them in any way. Either it was unintentional and they were negligent, or it was on purpose and they were attempting to sweep these changes under the rug, for whatever reason. Personally, I am led to believe the latter because of the PWYF change, since the fact that Victor not being considered a Killer coding-wise and not being able to make use out of many different Perks are still in the game, making the PWYF change feel less like a bug fix and more like a deliberate attempt at a shadownerf, causing me to believe the other two changes are in a similar vein.
Even if this isn't a lack of transparency like I suspect it is, that means it is negligence, which isn't much better. There are three very substantial changes that probably all required entirely new coding blocks, and they were just completely forgotten in the patch notes. There's nothing good to say about BHVR here.
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- Charlotte now loses collision after being dormant for 30 seconds. This means that if Charlotte stays asleep for 30 seconds or more, Survivors can walk through her and she loses her ability to bodyblock. This was an entire paragraph of coding that was added and simply not mentioned.
I remember reading or hearing about this one. It was mentioned but I can't remember where. It may have been in Dowsey's video where he talked about the nerfs. Honestly though, BHVR is terrible about patch notes and stealth nerfs. They have a long history of being shady so it's no surprise they continued that behavior.
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I made a thread on it when the patch first dropped on the PTB. You might have seen it there.
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I also saw this video on Twitter. Is this intentional or a bug because I though Victor would get crushed in this scenario.
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victor will get crushed if he stands on something taller than him according to the description. He must be a shade taller than the window.
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That's been around since Trickster's release but it too was not mentioned in the patch notes at the time.
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“Performing a basic attack or a special attack consumes 1 token”.
Doesn’t sound like a nerf to me. Tokens should never have been kept when using Victor.
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The thing is, Victor's pounce isn't considered a "special attack" because he's not considered a Killer in the code. In terms of whether or not it's an attack, Victor's pounce coding-wise would be more comparable to a Survivor taking damage from Trapper's bear trap or being attacked by a Nemesis's zombie, which both conserve PWYF tokens.
And again, if Victor is considered a Killer for this one instance, why not for any other Perk that involves the Killer, like Spine Chill or Deathbound? Why does PWYF get the special mistreatment?
Also, yes, it's absolutely a nerf. This was their literal best Perk before the change. Are you mad?
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It IS a special attack. Victor is Charlottes special attack.
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No, it is not. Victor is not Charlotte. Victor is a different character. Victor is his own separate, independent entity. He is not "Charlotte's special attack". That would be like calling bear traps "Trapper's special attack", or zombies "Nemesis's special attack", or RBT deaths "Pig's special attack".
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Man, BHVR is really hesitating on making PWYF a usable perk. I don't understand why they're so scared about PWYF.
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it is a special attack, it says that in the description of their power
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On #2, if victor is being considered a killer now does this mean being chased by victor could give you chaser points?
That's always been one of those things that I really disliked the twins for.
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If it's a special attack, then why aren't bear traps? Or zombies? Or RBTs?
Charlotte is not making an attack. Coding-wise, "the Killer" is not making an attack. The Killer isn't doing anything when Victor pounces. As a matter of fact, not only is the Killer not doing anything when Victor pounces, but you physically have to STOP USING the Killer to use a Victor pounce.
It's rather silly that the Killer needing to surrender control to a different entity that isn't regarded as the Killer to use this attack is still regarded as the Killer's special attack, don't you think?
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He's not being considered a Killer. They simply nerfed this one aspect of him not affecting PWYF stacks. On every other front, Victor still is not considered a Killer, including actually getting the benefit of going faster from PWYF tokens.
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I enjoyed playing as The Twins prior to the nerfs, haven't touched them since. I agree with Charlotte not being able to body block; there shouldn't even be a way to body block beyond a few seconds due to player toxicity. But PWYF was a key part of my build on them, and am sad to hear about the unspoken nerf. I don't even get the point of allowing three tokens if you can't even keep them ever.
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The 3 things you listed aren't things the killer directly controls when a survivor interacts with it.
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I get that you don't want to admit that Victor's pounce is a special attack, but it's obvious to everyone else that it is, most importantly that's how bhvr sees is and it's even in the twins description . It was obviously a bug that it didn't consume stacks, so they fixed the bug.
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bear traps, zombies, rbts are not special attacks because they dont attack anything (except zombies are just ai controlled npcs that are counted as "special enemy" and dont performs any special attacks)
victor is a power that has a pounce special attack that should consume tokens since it's a special attack
take deathslinger as an example
deathslinger's gun is a power that can shoot, shooting it counts as a special attack this means it should consume pwyf tokens
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The Killer isn’t attacking. It’s not a special attack. Plain and simple. The devs can claim it’s a special attack, but they also consider Clown’s bottles and Doctor’s shock to be special attacks, so should we really trust their reasoning?
But you guys are completely missing the point of this post anyway. Whether or not it should be in the game is completely irrelevant, so I’m not going to entertain your arguments anymore if you want to keep talking about it. What is relevant is the fact that, bug fix or not, this was a gigantic Twins change that, just like the other two changes listed, were not mentioned at all in the patch notes. That’s what this post is about, not PWYF.
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Sorry for derailing a little further on PWYF but I really hate the direction PWYF has been going on.
Originally ONLY "Offensive Actions" counted. This was a bit goofy/silly at times because Plague's green vomit didn't count even though it causes broken and indirectly injures you, (Red vomit counts tho) and Deathslinger's gun didn't count either.
After the Billy/Bubba rework PWYF got changed and almost everything counts now. Clown's Bottles, I THINK Doctor's Shocks (WHICH WAS ONLY A VERY RECENT CHANGE, BTW), Plague's Green Puke, Deathslinger's Gun (This one is sort of sensible, although I hate how shooting then stabbing consumes 2 stacks to inflict one health state of damage though.), etc.
Basically PWYF got gutted. I'm pretty sure Myers literally doing a Mortal Kombat Fatality on you via Tombstone still doesn't count as an attack, which is rather hypocritical.
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The killer IS ATTACKING. it's THE TWINS, not THE CHARLOTTE.
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I’ve already explained that Victor isn’t classified as a Killer according to the game’s coding, which is why Perks that affect the Killer don’t affect Victor.
But again, that’s not the point of this post. I’m not here to harp on about PWYF, though trust me, I could do that for hours. The point of this post is calling out these shadow-changes and how they were never disclosed by BHVR in any capacity.
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So there was a spaghetti code bug they corrected it. Are you seriously here whining about it? And for all you know the Charlotte not body blocking is a bug also (wouldn't surprise me personally) that will get fixed. This is dbd mang, the land of mystery and bugs and band aids, can't really complain about it at this point.
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Let's say every one of these issues were a bug that got fixed. Why not list it on the patch notes?
These changes are honestly that big of a deal, it's the fact they aren't listed anywhere that is the big issue.
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Firstly, I still am of the stance that this was not a bug fix as Victor’s interactions with PWYF were much more in-line with his not-a-Killer status before. That is a shadow nerf, through and through.
Secondly, did you even read the post? The collision loss is NOT a bug. It is a 100% deliberate, intentional change. There is an entire block of coding for the collision loss that WAS NOT THERE before the 4.7.0 PTB.
All three of the changes they made in this patch were 100% intended, and they were never, not once, brought up. Three substantial changes to Twins that were not mentioned in any way. The sheer negligence/lack of transparency here is what I’m upset with.
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New change or release and latch animations for Victor make me nauseous
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I dunno. When my wife asks what I did today I don't give her every stupid detail of my day either.
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Failing to list changes in patch notes is not a comparable thing with telling someone what you did during the day.
Patch Notes should include every change made in the patch.
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You having a conversation with your likely nonexistent wife and a company’s lack of transparency with their customers in regards to alterations they made to a product are two very different things. The point of the patch notes is telling us what is different. That is LITERALLY WHY THEY EXIST. If the patch notes aren’t telling us what’s different, something is wrong.
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You're easy to goad. Unfortunately, my wife is very real lol.
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I’m here to discuss what problems I have with BHVR’s decisions regarding Twins in the latest patch, not debate whether or not anime is real life. My interest in this conversation has waned and I will not dignify your future replies with a response.
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Keep it up, you're gaining a lot of traction here with everyone telling you you're wrong. Lol
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Charlotte losses collision? The ability to body block certain places was a hidden talent of the twins. Why would they take that away?
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Possibly because it could create hostage situations like on Badham. I don't really think it was a good change, but I can see why they made it. What I don't understand is why they didn't tell anyone.
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A killer could body block you in a variety of rooms, leading to holding the game hostage (at least for one person). Body blocking into rooms/corners should never be permitted beyond a few seconds for either side.
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Is the collision removed altogether or does Charlotte have collision for 30 seconds? If she has collision at stuff like vaults and doors, maybe you can still use her to bodyblock those.
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She has it for 30 seconds before it goes away.
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Bahaha! "Unfortunately."
But yea, that other guy is really fragile.
Victor is Charlotte's power. If Victor attacks, Charlotte's power is performing an attack, which is therefore a special attack. I don't care what kind of tea leaves you think you're reading "in the game's code," but every other killer's ability that you can perform an attack with gets classified as a special attack. Full stop. The PWYF interaction was obviously a bug (a bug, I might add, that happens with nearly every new or reworked killer with a special attack).
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