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The Current State of Nemesis
As of June 20th, I feel very torn about Nemesis. I LOVE the ideas behind this chapter's content, specifically Nemesis since killer content always excites me most. However, his transition from PTB to live has been... less than smooth. On the PTB he was a force to be reckoned with. Now? He feels so incredibly weak. The AI is bugged out the wazoo and (on PS4) the game lags when you charge his tentacle strike makes him unplayable. Not to mention that half (or more) of his addons are a waste.
What do you all think?
Comments
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I think he’s solid mid tier. I am PC though so I don’t have any performance issues.
The tentacle hit box can be a bit wonky but most of the time it works, and it’s pretty strong when you are hitting it consistently.
I love the terror radius music, especially the distant one with the spooky chanting. Gives me boss battle vibes.
I started off using the zombies as supports but now I just use them as power ups. The AI being dumb doesn’t matter much when you are just using them as stealth generators and infection boosters.
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I really like it. I think that Nemesis is really fun to play, and the new survivor perks are really nice.
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I've played couple of games woth him on my console and hitting with the tentacle feels a bit off cause it's really hard to tell sometimes how far and with what it actually collides (I'm surprised they didn't give him an addon that would show the tentacle hit zone -> something like Blight's or Nurse's addon).
Also the zombies are quite...meh? I actually had games when they downed someone cause a survivor run into them by accident but most of the time I see them stucked somewhere, chasing anyone. Oh and also survivors use them too much to gain a speed boost when I'm chasing them...it rather feels like survivors were "abusing" this mechanics.
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I'm calling it right now. BHVR probably screwed up the hindered status effect for him. His is currently coded at .25 seconds. A typical hindered status effect is 2.5 seconds. Who wants to bet that the code is off a decimal?
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They probably didn't playtest since after Blight. Do you think after playing PTB Twins and Trickster that you would have let them go live?
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Id say low A high B. 95 percent of my games in the last week were with him and i managed to 4k (or 3k with hatch) every one. I think the perception that hes weak comes from people trying to disregard M1 and only M2. My strategy usually revolves around infecting only if i cant use the m1, then abandoning and infecting/hooking the next survivor. Lethal pursuer helps very much with this strat, and is probably the only reason it works as well as it has.
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I guess the point of hindered is to reduce how much speed boost you get from contaminating survivors. I think it'll be a fair trade.
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He doesn't even FEEL like he's a 115% MS killer. I feel like a Huntress trying to catch up to them. Idk why either.
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In my opinion on xbox. He is high tier in indoor maps and mid to low in outdoor. The reason being is a big part of his power is the zombies, but they don't do a lot if anything on outdoor maps really. His tentacle is okay. I personally think it needs a few more meters or so of range, but that's just my opinion.
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Yeah that's what I mean. If it actually did hinder them long enough, it would be fine.
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I feel it needs more WIDTH instead of reach. I find it to be incredibly stupid game design that survivors can run into you to avoid the attack completely. Like what? PHs PotD comes out from his entire body so they cant just run in front of his face and dodge it but Nemesis must of been designed by an intern if they can't even make their mechanics consistent.
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That might work better actually. it just seems that even with tier 3 I barely miss constantly.
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Nemesis was bad on PTB, it's just that matchmaking doesn't exist on PTB so he seemed better than he was.
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Let me put this into the other perspective. When using his power, Nemesis gives the survivors a MOM proc, and survivors can give themselves an additional 4 total in the match. That's why he shouldn't be considered anywhere near the A tier. He's low B high C at best because of this weakness. The method you talk about is what I do once I get to tier 2, and while it mitigates his problems, it doesn't remove them. A good survivor will take advantage of it, and either reposition, or chain into another structure. Possibly a stronger one.
It lasts for .25 seconds, so, with the speed boost, they're going for 130% speed for .25 seconds, and the full 150% speed for 1.75 seconds, which is why it isn't noticeable. If Nemesis has a 2.5 second hinder, it would outlast the speed boost and help him catch up.
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You have to be smart about when and where you infect. Unlike a MoM proc, you control when and where it happens. Ive had situations where a survivor can be zoned into an infection and they cant do a thing about it.
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That only mitigates the problem. Yes, that style can work well, which is why he's not D-tier. His problems are too much to be considered amongst the truly good killers.
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Its a weakness, and the way around the weakness is to use it at the right place right time, once theyre infected, theres little they can do against the tentacle
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My take on Nemesis is that I really love him and I actually, from the bottom of my heart, want to main him.
I think he's a decent killer with some issues that could easily be fixed. He's pretty solid against your random survivor group but a competent SWF on comms stomps him, as far as I can tell at least.
Issues are that the AI of the zombies is absolute garbage. Not only do zombies regularly get stuck in OPEN DOORS and trees and such so you manually have to wobble over their to kill and reset them to get part of your power back into the game (part of your killer power basically disables itself randomly during the match) but the zombies also rarely hit.
Playing around those zombies sometimes is hugely rewarding but I barely notice them in most games except for the built in information they give me and even that information is sometimes misleading since more often then not zombies just pretend to chase someone while nobody is in its vicinity. Well, at least I couldn't find the survivor he was chasing at all. No scratch marks, no blood, no sound, no one hiding behind a tile. Nothing.
The speed boost on his first tentacle hit seems a bit off. It works but most of the time it feels like I'm slowing myself down when using it.
His counter play basically boils down to "hold W" because he gives you 2 speed boosts before being able to down you. Due to his lack of mobility this alone wastes a good amount of time for him even if you're not that great of a looper. Furthermore you can just cleanser the infection. If played optimally by survivors Nemesis grants survivors 8 extra health states with 8 extra Sprint Bursts during one match which is a big oof.
Lastly he obviously was changed shortly before release since his hindered status effect + his daily ritual don't make any sense on his current iteration. This needs to be looked at/fixed.
TLDR: I love Nemesis but he has issues.
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Everything about Nemesis is half-baked, from the tentacle attack to the contamination status effect and the way you cleanse yourself of it, to the addons and to the zombies and the way they work.
At the bare minimum the speed boost on contamination needs to go if Nemesis is to be anything but a terrible version of Pyramid Head, and even then he'll still be half-baked, just playable.
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If you play like that just use PH
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PH is one of my most played killers, and I can say for a fact they are different. Nemesis has a 3rd of the charge up time and the "tentacle tech" means you can pull off some pretty clutch hits at loops.
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He needs some small changes to become strong
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He’s pretty much always going to compete with PH and right now he’s the worse option
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Unfortunately I have to agree. If the zombies actually worked on most maps it might be different but they are non functional on a ton of maps. They attack trees more than survivors.
Three health states is also crippling on any huge survivor sided map. If the survivor has an exhaustion perk (which most should) they get 3 sprint bursts in a single chase which is a massive amount of time holding W after them even if you have robot accuracy with the tiny tentacle hit box
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Not to mention he has less range and a slightly less consistent hitbox. His zombies are only really useful on indoor maps and he has little control over them
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He's the first killer that I have been able to play Corrupt, Ruin, and Undying on at the same time. It might be because of the Zombies, but for some reason my totems don't get cleansed in the first 20 seconds of the match, even though with Corrupt that's what is supposed to happen 9/10 times. Just slap a BBQ on him, and snowball the rest of the game.
Then again I also don't play Nemesis like most others, I get my second level by hitting 2 healthy/injured survivors with Tentacle Strike, not Zombies. Hitting non-sick survivors gives the most progression to his tentacle strike levels. Once I hit 2 survivors I have level 2, and then use it mostly for breaking pallets so Survivors have less time running between loops, hitting them when they are locked in animation, or making a loop shorter with a longer reach of attack.
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I think a lot of his problems come from his add-on design.
Only like 3 of his 20 add-ons affect Nemesis and their interactions with survivors directly. One of them (the tongue) basically does nothing because most of his addons are crazy undertuned.
About half of his add-ons are trying to turn the zombies into some sort of threat, which doesn't work, and the other half are interacting with how vaccines work, which the survivors have total control over and which Nemesis can't capitalize on.
I think his basekit is fine. It more comes down to that it isn't good enough to be worth having a PH or Nurse style addon design where they basically don't matter.
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Just vs Nemesis in Groaning store house. Zombies kept interrupt us do Gen & Healing. 2 almost done that had to stop because of Zombies then Nemesis himself came. And multiple healing increased to over half of min because we just kept running away.
They dont even need to hit, just slow down survivors is enough.
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I dont feel playing Nemesis just a guy with a tentacle I did expect that a tyrant could rush like a bull LIKE ON ALL RE FILMS!!!
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He's in nowhere near as bad a state as launch Trickster or Twins, but could use some improvements.
We know he's getting buffed with the Hellraiser chapter, so that's a good step in the right direction. Only other things he needs to be in a great spot is fixing zombie AI and increasing the Hindered duration on Contamination. (i'd also like if zombies sped up by like 0.5m/s when chasing someone, but that's not a needed change)
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Idk why it is but I feel this too, if I go from any other 115%MS killer to Nemesis I feel like I'm slogging through quicksand.
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I really think the one problem he has are the zombies. They are sadly just pretty bugged. if they'd function as intended, he'd have more map pressure, which is exactly what he needs.
His chase potential is good enough in my opinion.
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