Kill Switch update: We have temporarily disabled The Legion due to an issue that allows for infinite power spam. The Legion will be re-enabled once this issue is fixed.

http://dbd.game/killswitch

Is the killer's lunge longer than a Dead Hard?

gendoss
gendoss Member Posts: 2,270

Is the distance of an entire lunge longer than that of a Dead Hard? Sometimes I can get hit through an entire Dead Hard so I didn't know if it was actually longer of if it's just latency.

Comments

  • Anniehere
    Anniehere Member Posts: 1,435

    Guessing server issue, lag / delay. better to use it to gain some distance and not to dodge a hit.

  • Warcrafter4
    Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,917
    edited June 2021

    I have been on the floor exhausted much more then normal this patch from dead hard so I think something's up.

    It probably is just with all the poor optimization and lag spikes causing every thing to break given how short of a window you actually have to use it properly to dodge an attack.

    With how small said window is any noticeable amount of lag can break it.

  • DetailedDetriment
    DetailedDetriment Member Posts: 2,632

    It kind of depends on the server latency and your ping. Sometimes you will Dead Hard a very short distance, and other times you might Dead Hard half the distance of shack.

  • White_Owl
    White_Owl Member Posts: 3,786

    If my math is correct, Dead Hard let survivors cover 4.4 additional meters, while a killer's lunge attack is about 2 meters long, so the answer to your question is no. Still latency and timing are the main factors to take into consideration.

  • gendoss
    gendoss Member Posts: 2,270

    Well then DH is more than double that of a lunge, I guess it's mostly just latency then cuz even if the lunge was slightly after it still shouldn't hit.

  • Akito
    Akito Member Posts: 673
    edited June 2021

    Dead Hard : 0.5 sec

    Killer Lunge: 1 sec

  • gendoss
    gendoss Member Posts: 2,270
  • TheClownIsKing
    TheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    Hmm ok.

    Personally, I try to bait it and time my delay of my lunge after they’ve initiated their DH. This usually results in a hit. If I’m using Coup De Grace and bait the DH before lunging then I’m absolutely guaranteed a down.

  • gendoss
    gendoss Member Posts: 2,270

    Well thus far I've been mostly attributing it to latency but maybe the actual lunge is longer/as long as a Dead Hard so I came to the forums to get an actual answer.

  • TicTac
    TicTac Member Posts: 2,900

    When you are really close and lunge, you hit the survivor at the end of his dead hard.

    There is only one problem with that. Sometimes the game thinks you hit them and ends the lunge early, but bc of the dead hard its no hit.

  • Uistreel
    Uistreel Member Posts: 634

    The perk is poorly worded here, but I believe when you use dead hard, from 0 seconds to 0.2 seconds your movement speed increases from 100% to 250%. After 0.2 seconds, you quickly transition back to 200% speed for the remaining 0.8 seconds of the 1 second dead hard use. Might be totally wrong, probably am math isn't my strong suit, but I think (10m/s x 0.2) + (8m/s x 0.8) - 4m/s would be 4.4 metres gained using dead hard. Probably totally wrong there but it'd be roughly accurate regardless.

    Killers lunge makes them instantly move at 150% of there movement speed, so a normal 4.6m/s killer would be boosted to 172.5% movement speed for 0.3 seconds. This should just be 30% of 6.9m/s, so a basic killer lunge would be 2.07 metres long.

    So if any of that is roughly correct then no the killers lunge is no where near as long, however they can still easily catch up if they wait like a second after you dead hard.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,088

    If you are up against a survivor's back, your lunge will connect if they use Dead Hard. I've done that often enough.

    The wiki is wrong about Dead Hard. It does not last for a second, but only half a second: "DeadHardDashSpeed Curve Duration 0.500000", "DeadHardEffect [...] LogInteraction: Interaction time: 0.500000" - taken directly from the game logs.

    Since they are wrong about the duration, they are probably wrong about the speeds too. Dead Hard does have a speed curve, but we do not know the specifics of that curve.

    That the lunge manages to catch out Dead Hards can easily be demonstrated though: In a custom game, stand next to each other and actuate Dead Hard and a lunge from a static position, and you will see that the killer's position comes more than close enough to the survivor (keep in mind that the weapon extending forward means the actual hitzone for the lunge is even longer).

  • van9684
    van9684 Member Posts: 433

    It’s longer than the que times in 2018. Lunge should be nerfed a bit I think or killer base speed should be lowered to like 4.2.

  • AVoiceOfReason
    AVoiceOfReason Member Posts: 2,747

    Yes. If a killer holds his lunge as soon as you DH at the same time, you'll get hit but mostly, its due to latency. The killer can only hit you with his lunge if he's already touching your butt before swinging. Otherwise, you'll be out of his range unless latency.

  • Edgars_Raven
    Edgars_Raven Member Posts: 1,236

    If you time it right you can hit a survivor just as tgey come out of dh, it looks broken but its not. A lot of tines it happens on accident, like i hit my lunge button 3 milliseconds after you hit the dh button and im already on your ass, yeah youll go down it will look like dh just did nothing

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 6,826
    edited June 2021

    This is incorrect, killers lunge is 6 meters when you include the hitbox of the attack. Which you should in this case.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 6,826

    If you start the attack slightly after they dead hard, you will follow them through it. If you do it too early though, your attack will stop. The distance is actually correct, it's the time it takes that matters.

  • Friendly_Blendette
    Friendly_Blendette Member Posts: 2,923

    Also if you dead hard into a wall the killer with hit you.

  • Alionis
    Alionis Member Posts: 1,040
    edited June 2021

    You should probably have another look into the log files, the wiki's information is literally how the speed curve is defined.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,088


    I'm not saying I know for certain, but that is what the log actually says about Dead Hard's duration. I tried to count frames in clips of Dead Hard, but it is difficult to say when the interaction actually starts and ends. If we go by the "Dead Hard" prompt disappearing to the point of the Exhaustion status effect popping up, I only counted around 300 milliseconds worth of frames, whereas if I tried to time it from prompt disappearing to approximate end of animation, it was around 800ms, though it has to be noted that the Dead Hard animation does not actually start to play instantly upon the prompt being triggered, there is a delay there, of a good 100+ms. So yeah, I'm pretty confident that it actually does only last for half a second.

    I do remember that the devs clarified on the speed curve at some point, I think it was McLean on a dev stream perhaps? But I'm not sure whether they were actually very specific about it or whether they weren't like "I think it is roughly such and such". Either way, I have a hard time believing the wiki is accurate on this, because if we take 250% speed (10m/s) for 200ms plus another 200% (8m/s) for 800ms, we get a distance of 8.4 meters traversed, and that's just not at all the distance you make during Dead Hard.

  • Sadsnacks
    Sadsnacks Member Posts: 677

    Ive had a few killer matches lately where i easily hit survivors just by waiting for the dh animation and then lunging.

    The pain with dh is you have to look behind you consistently in chase to time it right if youre using it to bait a lunge. You also have to hit it at the moment like half a second before the killer lunges. Too soon and the killer can lunge and get an easy hit. A fraction of a second too late and dh wont trigger at all.

  • lagosta
    lagosta Member Posts: 1,871

    That is a very interesting question Killer's Lunge and Dead Hard work identically with the exception that the killer is not locked in a direction according to the wiki. I couldn't find official sources on the duration though.

    A Survivor Dead Harding accelerates for a very short duration and follows up with a constant speed of 8m/s. Assuming 1 second duration, that's 8 meters.

    A killer lunging moves at 6.9m/s. Now comes the issue. I couldn't find official sources on killer lunge durations. The only info is an addendum that relates to a change to the Nurse's lunge on patch 2.2 that untied her movement speed to lunge reach. Extrapolating that info to other killers (this may as well be untrue) killers have a base lunge reach of 6 meters and max lunge duration is 0.87 seconds, meaning the Survivor can outrun the killer by 2 meters.

    Take this info with a grain of salt though.

  • gendoss
    gendoss Member Posts: 2,270

    Not necessarily, if I know I won't make a pallet or window vault I will just Dead Hard into the pallet/window and the lunge will go right through me very often.

  • Alionis
    Alionis Member Posts: 1,040
    edited June 2021

    Since I'm part of a discord server that has access to that stuff, I can list the code. The wiki may have simplified the curve a bit, since the information is irrelevant to your average dbd player, but it's still accurate.

    The curve is defined like this:

    Time 0, value: 1, cubic

    Time 0.2, value: 2.5, cubic

    Time: 0.31, value: 2, linear

    Time: 0.88, value: 2, cubic

    Time 1, value: 1, cubic

    That's the entire speed curve. You're correct in saying that the interaction time is 0.5 seconds, but the wiki didn't say anything else either, like you claimed it did. The wiki's 1 second is a reference to the speed curve.

    My guess is that the actual effect (dodging damage) lasts for 0.5 seconds, but the speed curve takes longer to smooth out the transition stages.

    The calculation issues in this thread arise from the simple fact that you guys don't take the actual curves into account with the interpolation modes, but that is nearly impossible to do without more in-depth knowledge of the code, even for dataminers.

    As a general suggestion: I wouldn't try to calculate distances with anything in dbd that uses a speed curve, results will often not match the reality due to inaccuracies, lack of information.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,088

    The log says "DeadHardDashSpeed Curve Duration 0.5", so that's what made me assume even the curve only lasts for half a second. I did clarify that we don't know the specifics of the curve, and of course, without the specifics of the curve it is impossible to actually say what the traversed distance would be, or its duration for that matter (since another 0.5 seconds of the "curve" could just be moving at like 101%, for example). I based my answer to OP's question primarily on observational evidence.

    Cool to see the code for it. I follow a few modders and their Discords, but it's not easy to get useful information out of those channels usually, if you have a community that is more interested in learning about and sharing interesting game details like this, please let me know if they are welcoming of interested new members. There's stuff like the specifics of chase state and entity blocker that I'm still curious about, and there are many more such things the code would be great to see for.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2021

    Tell that to Freddy Long-Fingers

    (I am totally joking and know that Freddy's lunge is the same as everyone elses).