Blame Game Design, Not Genrush & Tunnel
Survivors are genrushing because that is safe way to win.
And killers are tunnelling because that is safe way to win.
Because modern DbD is supporting fast games. This is reason everyone trying to finish their objective as possibly as fast.
But this is boring. Because when you are genrushing, killer has not time to play and get points. And when killer is tunnelling, survivor has not time to play and get points. And both are not fun and so boring.
This game design is bad and faulty.
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But what can devs do?
Besides introducing secondary objective to survivors,something to do before they can begin working on gens.
Tunneling can be solved giving hooking mechanism to every killer like Pyramid head has,removing the traditional one
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The best match possible is when game takes long and everyone gets to do something and earn a lot of BP.
However people are playing in the most efficient way possible so matches in high ranks use to end super fast.
Maybe its matchmaking or just the game design in general
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It is not hard. If they try to be creative, they can fix problems.
Add more objectives for survivors. For example "Finish 5 generators and find 5 keys for open gates." and now survivors can not escape with genrushing.
For punish and stop tunnel, make DS basekit for survivors and make stun longer (10 seconds). And make it active after both hooks. And now killer has to slug you (This will give you chance) or they will eat stun and they will waste so much time.
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Survivors are escaping with 12 - 13k points.
Killers are finishing game with 18 - 20k points.
Both is shame. Survivors and killers were crying when game was ending under 25k. Games were not sweaty like this and they were fun and slower.
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Old dbd for some reason everything was done slowly, killers had breathing time, survivors had a chance to do totems/chest etc, killers sweat less since in most matches there was old ruin, survivors outplayed killers for reals unlike now a days.
Way less bugs or limits such as cooldowns like overheat as an example.
Before as an old billy main, I was able to curve all I wanted without fearing of missing a chainsaw and lose 3 gens, p2p was better than dedicated servers.
Both sides were less optimal and more fun.
Fun fact: if survivors abused infinites and such, other survivors actually sandbagged the infinite abuser and never unhooked him, killers if a survivor was actually being trolled or sandbag for reals they usually gave that person a break.
This game is way more balanced than it was 2 years ago yes, is it more fun? Nope not at all, in fact I prefer there being overpowered stuff that was fun compared to current dbd.
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Genuinely the best matches I ever have is with a killer that wants to farm points with survivors. I'll let them close hatch in my face and kill me as long as we all get to have a good time and get a lot done. I mostly assume the killer is going to be really aggressive right off the bat these days though, which makes things a lot less fun.
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Survivors are learning that they can just pump gens out and win... In return killers are learning that if they don't do whatever they can to get pressure fast, the game will spiral out of control.
I agree with you that it is poor design though.
Imo, gens should be harder to do and should be less safe. Maps could be smaller, and the survivor's objective could require them to run around instead of just sitting there holding a button.
In turn, survivors could get come more tools to deal with killers in chase, and there could be harder measures implemented to deal with camping, slugging and tunneling.
But that is not the game we have sadly...
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The game has always needed mandatory secondary objectives 100%
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Old ruin is why things moved more slowly
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I have to agree. I would like slower games.
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Add secondary objectives for the survivors (mandatory).
Camping, if the killer is within 8 meters of the hook for longer than 8 seconds their aura is revealed to all survivors, overrides any stealth nechabics or perks.
Tunneling is a bit tougher but basekit ds and applied to both health states ought to do it.
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No, I definitely blame killers for tunneling, that doesn't work except against mediocre teams. Camping and slugging, that's what works against genrushing. Tunneling takes too damn long even if they're the one-in-a-hundred team that's not using BT, DS, DH and UB.
Edit: This might be one of the saddest things I've said about DbD.
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I agree.
I wrote a post elsewhere saying what I would do to improve the gameplay, personally, and I'll just repost it here for the hell of it:
In my own opinion, the game needs more structure. Maybe escalating objectives that bring the two sides together more to force teamwork between survivors and interaction between sides which can be used to determine an average length for matches, avoiding them being too long or too short. Maybe different maps have different objectives, maybe one is hide-and-seek-based instead of objective-based.
The maps themselves could be more interactive for both sides, adding a new dimension to chases.
Get rid of the dying state, get rid of hooks, instead the killer does a kill animation on the second hit. Survivors get three lives, maybe they have to help revive each other, but get rid of the ability to camp [the killer doesn't know where the survivor is, like Pyramid Head with his cages], lessen the ability to tunnel someone out.
None of this will ever happen, it'd be a completely different game, but the devs need to look at the things players don't enjoy and come up with creative ways to minimize those elements while adding new fun gameplay.
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Well, give both sides a different objective.
Survivors only have gens. Killers only have hooks.
I as a Killer would love a secondary objective. Remove my Mori, make me work for a Mori by having an extended chase or something like that.
As a survivor, give me a secondary objective as well, a different escape route that can only be unlocked by collecting things. Maybe even a egoistic escape option: You can finish it but only one other survivor can come with you...
Make both sides have a choice.
Also maybe different obstacles I can throw in a Killers face: Oil barrles to slow them, electric wires to stun them briefly and something like that. Heck, make the option to crouch more effective against Slinger or Nemesis to make loops more interesting...but some new objects would be nice.
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Well you could shift repair speed to a charged based system (i.e survivor repair slower at the start and faster and faster the more they interact with the killer / other survivors / totems).
Lets say you unhook a person:
the unhooked person will reduce 50% slower while the unhooker will repair 50% faster (if a killer camps - 30sec after being hooked other survivor can get near and collect the repair boost).
If a survivor dies early the remaining survivor can also collect the charges from the dead survivor.
This way tunneling and removing a person as quick as possible is no longer the most efficient way. But it also means a Killer who struggles getting his first hook has more time (cuz survivor mostly get charges from healing / unhooking other survivors).
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Even when it got broken it was still really slow compared to now
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Your idea many have merit and definitely worth testing. That said there is an inherent 'push pull' at play here. Survivors will always need to finish their objectives as fast as possible to guarantee escape. Once the first hook is made, 'objective' progress slow down considerably for survs. On a small map, it's death knell if at least 3 gens haven't popped/are close to popping because it's much harder to heal safely and do the remaining gens safely. On a map that's larger with crappy RNG for the Killer, there is by far less risk.
One might say "just limit map size and RNG" but then the maps become stale and boring. The ones that are definitely surv or killer sided are ID'ed and the map offering wars being.
I don't think DS need to be 10 secs, but more that it needs a way to make it obscure/confusing where the surv went. I cannot tell you how many Killers I've seen eat the DS or BT hit and then just plow after the same surv, regardless of what anyone else does. I managed by sheer luck to push a Legion to the edge of wall, costing them time, but instead of hitting me, they went AROUND me to chase the person off their second hook. That's not a limited experience.
That said, I don't think the devs want to do much about 'gen rushing' or tunneling and camping. This game isn't meant to be a balance of skill at the end of the day.
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Do not remove the hooking or give survivors x lives plus respawning. It removes any pressure a killer couldve put on the team.
Thats one of the many things to kill deathgarden.
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This has always been the case. The pip system was put in place to attempt to alleviate the issue by forcing interaction with the killer if survivors want to pip. Previously all you needed was 10k bp to pip and some teams abused that back in the day.
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Totally agree is a poor game design. Every side trying to abuse these boring mechanics but pretty optimal.
Devs should try change the metagame and turn the game into a more fun game for every side, and fairly balanced.
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Secondary objective for survivors used to be sabo. It was not balanced and DEVs nerfed it too hard. Games became faster after sabo nerf. Allow each survivor to sabo 1-2 hooks without Saboteur or tools. Make it slow, give enough BP for that to survivors. It will not harm killers much, there are many hooks. Survivors will go after additional BP.
Tunneling is harder. The core problem about tunneling is the 2-stage hook system. You need to hook a survivor the second time to eliminate him from the game, it causes tunneling. Killers go after it, because 1 survivor less means there are less survivors doing gens. Just eliminate the 2-stage hook system, make survivors die as soon as the "hook-bar" runs out or when all survivors are dead or hooked. Also reduce amount of BP gained by Killer when he re-hooks a survivor within x seconds (maybe 30-60seconds). This way there won't be a need to tunnel a survivor, it doesn't bring you anything as a killer, it will just reduce the amount of BP that you will gain. If you leave the hooked survivor and go for another one, you can get more hooks and more BP. It will also help survivors, because killers won't be able to hook you twice within 1 minute and end the game for you too fast.
Also, it's not necessary for the killer to see where the hooked survivor is (remove gfx). And there is no need for the unhook sound+gfx notification. What purpose does it serve? It only helps killers to tunnel, it must be removed.
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I feel like the best secondary objective for killers would be to simply not tunnel and camp people. If killers were rewarded for spreading out hooks while survivors were rewarded for doing literally anything that isn't slamming the absolute crap out of gens, it would organically slow down how fast killers try to end trials whilst nerfing predrop-and-W because... Well, suddenly running out of resources early is the legitimate problem people pretended it was 6 months ago.
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For me
the game started moving way to fast when the changed ruin.
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corrupt intervention being basekit would solve many problems
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This. We know the game was never intended to be played at a high/sweaty level. The devs themselves have said it.
Because it wasn't designed around it a lot of these issues would be nigh impossible to actually fix without reworking basic game mechanics and how chases function at a ground level. And I can't see that ever happening anytime soon. If they were nipped in the bud before they released 4 years worth of updates it could have been fixed.
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Yeah that would help killers so much. But also survivors will need some help for anti-tunnel. Maybe make DS Survivor base-kit and Corrupt killer base-kit. Both roles will get good power to their base-kit.
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basekit DS would be heavily abused and survivors are known to abuse perks
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