Why there is still no perk against a facecamping bubba?
I think it’s important for a fair, balanced and fun match, that every gamemechanic have a counterplay. But a facecamping bubba ruin the game for this person on the hook. I know the devs and some player say „just do gens“ but it’s just unfun and frustrating for all players and shouldn‘t be the solution... I would be glad to see a perk in the future to handle such situations in a fair way. For example with a perk, that has a a timer which activates if the killer is 20 seconds near 16 m to the hook, so the survivor can selfunhook and gets bt for 8 seconds.
Maybe there are other ideas? Or what do you think about facecamping on the first hook?
Comments
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Deliverance + DS + Unbreakable + Soul Guard
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@bjorksnas deliverance doesn‘t work, if the first person get facecamped on first hook
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Camaraderie. As long as someone is close to the hooked person the hook timer stops. He wastes more time camping for every person with it. So your team finishes gens because he never bothered to perimeter camp.
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@WaveyTrey But camaraderie changes nothing. It’s still impossible to go for a rescue and the same as „just do gens“.
I just really don’t like this helpless situation for the player on the hook and that a killer has this impact of a match to make the trail boring and unfun for all players just by standing near the hook
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its a non match anyway, I would dip out as soon as I can by any means necesary, you are wasting your time
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Face camping the first hook is a scumback move.
I can understand proxy camping on certain Killers like Hag and Trapper. Also I understand people intercepting the rescuer which is often mistooken for camping. However standing right in front of the hooked survivor is a dirty move and should be punished.
The question how we do this is a big one however. Last time when the hook timer stopped while the Killer was nearby survivors were abusing it by looping the Killer next to the hook, eating the Killers time while not loosing any hook progress.
If you can offer a solution to the camping issue that is not going to be abused in such a way then I am all in for it.
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The perktimer could pause if the killer is in chase
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What about the Pyramid Head treatment? his cages teleport somewhere else on the map if he remains close to it
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What perk do you propose that wouldn't make all chainsaws and one-hit effects worthless? Your suggestion ignores the fact that camping is a useful tool and shouldn't be punished just because the killer happens to be good at it.
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Would be an idea. I never saw a Cage camping Pyramide Head. xp
But Pyramide Head should get something for his uniqueness in return. They allready took his skill check mechanic and made it baseline for all hooks. XP
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Its because he cant see the cage
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Look it from a different perspective.
How many time do you actually face a bubba, and how many of them actually facecamp?
Like honestly i barely face a bubba and when i do they rarely facecamp.
So just eat it and go to the next match
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@Dennis_van_eijk Yesterday three matches
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Out of how many?
I mean it can be a rank specific something, but at purple/red ranks i rarely see a bubba.
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@Orion At first for facecamping (especially on first hook) is just unfun and a broken gamemechanic in my opinion, expect in the egc.
I asked for possible solutions, it shouldn’t have to be a perk. Maybe it could be bubba loose chainsaw charges near a hooked survivor, so there is a chance for a rescue...
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@Dennis_van_eijk As survivor red rank, as killer purple, just because I play more survivor.
Maybe at the moment I see more facecamping bubbas cause of the event. It’s every year the same 🙄
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Let's start with the basics. Why should there be a chance for a rescue if the killer is right there? Why should you be allowed to ignore the killer's presence and agency?
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I understand your frustration and this game after 5 years has yet to come up with a solution for unfair Camping.
The best advice I can give you is basically if you feel like your team could have a chance. Meaning they are A) not crouching around not doing gens B) not farming you off the hook in an effort to trade. DO attempt to buy them sometime, not all gens are going to get done through both your hook stages because other variables exist, like your team needs to know Bubba is actually camping.
However, by your team actually doing gens the game will deny him of points towards his Gatekeeper (because he is not slowing down gen repair). And so on.
I know these aren’t exactly “counters” and trust me I wish I could tell you there was, even in a SWF situation it is one of the hardest things to pull off.
Hopefully some day they will balance it in a way where it isn’t being used as a tool to simply annoy others.
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Tnx but that doesn't answer my question.
But it are only 3 matches out off many matches you play.
Sure it is annoying when you get facecamped, we've all been there.
But don't focus so much on the few bad games you had and more on the good games you had.
As annoying as it is l, just stay on the hook as long as possible to get the other 3 to rush gens and get out and make bubba lose points.
After that, forget about the match and just move on, that's what i do whenever something like that happens on a rare occasion
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I’m the martyr type. If I’m getting face camped, I want my team to do gens and get out. That’s the only way face campers will learn. They rely on the team’s altruism and 95% of the time it works. Even I fall for it because I feel like an ######### if I don’t try to get all 3 that got snowballed by Bubba in shack basement.
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Honestly this is where a buff to the perk Camaraderie would work.
Make it that it works both ways : if you are close to a hooked survivor AND if a survivor is closed to you when you are on hook.
AND
Make it that it works if the killer is staying for longer than 15 sec in a 16m radius from you without attacking any other survivors. + for the 15 sec activation delay, add them on the paused timer which is 26/30/34 sec and could even be buffed to 30/40/50 sec
That would make it a perk "i'll take this one for the team", that would really give you team more time to do gens if you are getting facecamp
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I've not come across a face-camping Bubba in a long, long time! What Cannibal players have in their favour is using a save to down multiple opponents, so you could argue it's in their interest to allow the save, so long as they're close enough to hit the multi-down.
There are plenty of ways to deal with it, and perks that can take him on. If he is doing a genuine face-camp (which is a dull, talentless but within-the-rules skill) it's harder, but it's exceptionally rare, and a good player can easily get past this to save by forcing the killer to hit.
Perk-wise, the list of potentially useful perks to escape, slow or help the camped include: Kindred; No-One Left Behind; Slippery Meat; Deliverance; Leader; Adrenaline; Borrowed Time; Breakdown; Mettle Of Man; Camaraderie; Desperate Measures; Resilience. Granted, some work better than others, but they all have a use.
And play-wise, there's baiting the killer; forcing a hit; getting on with gens, etc..
Overall, there are a multitude of options available, and even then you cannot survive every match. Best to learn how to avoid the hook, as prevention is the best protection of all.
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Its tragic to see this post because this is what borrowed was useful for for the longest time. It used to protect both the rescuer and the rescuee but they nerfed it really hard.
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Original BT made it so going after the unhooked survivor was always the better decision. It incentivized tunneling and rewarded people for bad saves. Why would anyone go after the guy who takes three hits to go down instead of the one who just takes two?
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You're absolutely right but it still countered bubba. I didn't say it wasn't a needed nerf, I said it was nerfed really hard.
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didn't old BT was "1 use per game?"
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No no, the only difference from now was it protected both people
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not to mention that bleed-out timer was running out even in chase
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Oh I guess i remembered wrong, my bad
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You know, first off yes they tried something in the past. I’m sure OP wasn’t even around when it happened, but I am also sure he/she didn’t “do it” to themselves.
This is such a poor attitude to have, especially when it is a well known fact that Camping isn’t always just used as a “strat”.
Just because they tried something and it didn’t work out, does not mean that is the end of all things. They could have approached other ideas…example: as long as every other survivor is holding M1 (you know being bored out of their skull) the struggle timer for the survivor being camped, slows down the more the killer remains in the area. This would also reward the survivor additional points. THAT to me sounds like they actually took the time to navigate/explore better options while not completely making the survivor holding on for dear life waste their time.
It’s not rocket science.
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None of the suggested "fixes" for the thing they tried addresses why it was a failure in the first place. Simply put, survivors should not be able to place the killer in a situation where the correct course of action is to let the survivors do whatever they want, unless those survivors are just overwhelmingly better than the killer (in which case it's a matchmaking problem). That is a massive balance issue.
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I am simply pointing out that anytime someone as much as breathes the words “camping should be addressed” this whole “they already tried it and it didn’t work because survivors abused it” words get randomly thrown. It is an observation I have from being on these forums.
For me if the killer is flat out Camping and no one is there, that isn’t survivors placing the killer in that situation. That is the killer attempting to force the situation onto survivors. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to get at? But to me that is the killer saying “I don’t care if you do generators I am not playing the game”.
Furthermore, my main concern isn’t even about other survivors, but I am much more interested in finding ways to make that survivor on the hook feel like they even played the game, even if it’s throwing points at them for basically opting to stay. Life is too short and queues are too long to be stuck in a match where the killer wants to keep you hostage rendering you unable to do anything. I have never played any other game where this type of abusive behavior was allowed without resulting in some balance change.
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I am simply pointing out that anytime someone as much as breathes the words “camping should be addressed” this whole “they already tried it and it didn’t work because survivors abused it” words get randomly thrown. It is an observation I have from being on these forums.
In my experience, that's said when people propose the thing that has already been tried and proven to be a failure.
For me if the killer is flat out Camping and no one is there, that isn’t survivors placing the killer in that situation. That is the killer attempting to force the situation onto survivors.
The killer should be able to force situations onto survivors, though. That's one of the characteristics of an asymmetrical game.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to get at? But to me that is the killer saying “I don’t care if you do generators I am not playing the game”.
Bait can be a very powerful tool, if used correctly. The killer is playing the game, they're just doing it in a way that many survivors find unpleasant.
Furthermore, my main concern isn’t even about other survivors, but I am much more interested in finding ways to make that survivor on the hook feel like they even played the game, even if it’s throwing points at them for basically opting to stay.
Failure should not be rewarded in video games. And yes, that survivor failed - it's how they ended up on the hook. If you die too soon, you learn from your mistakes and try to do better next time. That's how every game works.
Life is too short and queues are too long to be stuck in a match where the killer wants to keep you hostage rendering you unable to do anything.
You're not being held hostage. You probably know what the term actually means, so let's not dilute its meaning.
I have never played any other game where this type of abusive behavior was allowed without resulting in some balance change.
I went back to BF3 a few years back, decided to hop onto multiplayer. I ended up in a game where we'd lost control of the entire map and were stuck at spawn. Any time one of us stepped out, the enemy team would be there, waiting for us, and killed us fairly quickly. We could've pushed them back if we worked together, but many decided to give up and just wait it out.
For many survivors, this would be considered abusive behavior. How dare the other team not give us a chance? However, it's just how PvP games work. It wasn't unbalanced or abusive, the other team just wanted to make sure they'd win.
Camping doesn't need a balance change, it needs an attitude change.
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I respectfully disagree. Killers who camp for the 1k generally make those of us who actually took the time to learn a killer look bad.
I am not asking for killers to play how survivors want them to play, but I am also not tone deaf to how silly standing by a hook while 3 others hold M1 looks.
That isn’t how the game is meant to be played or else you’d have a “Camping Emblem” attached to the ones that already exist.
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Camping would almost stop altogether if survivors didn't reward it. Sure, maybe once in a while you get the odd team that knows not to reward campers, but most of the time, the killer is rewarded for camping with an easy 3-4k trial. That's what I mean by an attitude change: survivors as a whole need to stop rewarding campers.
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Actually, since we have Insidious, that´s exactly how the game was meant to be played. At least originally.
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Speculation works both ways. What about if they actually made something worth their time? Like where the killer can still camp but the survivor still has a chance of playing the game?
Camping is a free escape for survivors, but what about the player who didn’t get to play the game? Too bad for them right?
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Facecamping on first hook in my eyes isn’t a strategy, it’s just „hey, make sure the survs haven‘t fun“... and to complete these scenario with a facecamping bubba, he runs always noed too, so the survivors can maybe rush all gens but they can’t remove all totems too. So this games mostly ends with 2-3k or 4k, a depip for all, maybe 3000-8000 bloodpoints and frustrated people. That’s really fun 🙄
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In the current state of the game, sure, not rewarding the killer potentially gives 3 survivors a chance to escape.
Here is the problem though. Most of the time neither of those 3 survivors had fun. Nobody has fun holding M1 through an entire match. It is the same feeling as when a killer afks, and survivors are scrounging for more points. This doesn’t help the grind that already exists.
Do I think that in the best case scenario all 3 should be able to escape? Absolutely. Do I think this creates a fun and interactive experience? Not in the least.
So for me, this is where I see potential for the game to grow. Sometimes it also means growing out of these scenarios that do not promote fun.
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Same could be said about gen rushing.
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@Tsulan genrush is only a problem for killers, that camp or tunnel, cause the other 2-3 survivors can do gens. And don’t get me wrong, I think it’s very boring to m1. I like to interact with the killer and I enjoy chases very much.
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I agree that it's not fun, but it's also not:
- Abusive (it's a strategy in most instances, only a small fraction of camping is intentionally abusive)
- Unbalanced (the killer is literally standing still for two minutes after having chased a single survivor for a long time, giving everyone else free reign - if anything, camping favors smart survivors)
- An issue that should be resolved from the killer's side
Survivors need to learn to bite the bullet from time to time.
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Gen rushing can happen all the time. In fact, red ranks is full of survivors that want to end the match as soon as possible, instead of sticking around and earning more points.
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@Tsulan maybe a few... but what’s the alternativ if every killer on red ranks runs pop or/and ruin and plays one of the top3 killer?
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Counterquestion: WHY do you think you see only the same 3 killers on red ranks, which also stack gen slowdown perks?
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@Tsulan There are two answers...
- a lot of killers are to weak with there basekits
- some player want/expect always 4k and they don’t want the risk, to „loose“ a match or they are not interested in to get better on other killers.
And I think the correct answer is a mix of both PLUS a portion of get destroyed by survivors in other matches before
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Current gen speed shows something else. Since most red rank killers get barely 4 or 5 hooks by the time the gates are powered. So either, most killers are underpowered or survivors simply need another (obligatory) objective.
Which brings us back to face camping Bubbas. Which could simply struggle with the current gen speed situation. Something that is so frustrating, that they take it out on the next match/survivor they see.
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In the current game, standing in front of the hooked survivor can be an effective strategy. The reason that facecamping doesn't work, is because the survivors prevent it from happening and/or being effective. The reasons that facecamping DOES work, are because the survivors let it happen. For example:
- Let's say i'm chasing someone, and just as i down and hook them 3 gens pop. What should i do in that situation? Now, i'm NOT saying that i need to camp because "well i lost the game anyway" i'm trying to win, not facecamp because i'm mad. What reason do i have to leave the hook?
- You just finished 3 gens, which means the other 4 gens don't have any progress on them, and i know you aren't over there. Why would i go look for you there?
- You also just finished a gen, why would i go there and engage in a chase, drop pallets, destroy walls and create deadzones in a part of the map with no gen to defend?
- You just finished the 3 gens, most likely your next stop is to immediately go for the hook save, not the other 4 gens, this will slow the game down.
- Most likely, since you finished 3 gens, you probably finished gens on the opposite side of the map from my hook. So the hooked guy is likely near 1-2 gens that i am also able to defend at the same time.
- What you should do is go do the other gens, but if you do, i'm going to wait out a hook state (because at this point it'll be around 20-30 seconds, then go for you. This means i can tunnel the guy i hooked out of the game very quickly and slow down the game.
- What you REALLY should have done, was not slam those gens as hard as possible and made it so you only finished 1 when i landed the hook and left the other 2 almost done. This would have tricked me into leaving the hook, then you could come back later and finish the gens (yeah maybe i popped one, but you lost 25% progress on 1 gen instead of the whole game)
- Another common situation is that all survivors get injured and then another gets hooked. This often happens in parity with the above step because survivors don't spend time healing and spend time doing gens instead.
- If all of you are injured, you can't come save if i am nearby, which means if you want to get a save you MUST spend time healing. In order to not just hook trade, you have to send 2 survivors over in order to get someone off the hook, this means you have to heal 2 people for 16 seconds for a total of 32 seconds (less if all 3 of you heal together). That is half the time it takes for the hook to go to the next stage, and that is assuming you try and heal right away. Most likely what you do is run for the hook, realize i'm camping maybe point at me and try to get me to chase before you go heal and go for the save. Now the guy is on the second hook stage and you are all healed. Prime picking for tunneling.
1 - Let's say i'm chasing someone, and just as i down and hook them 3 gens pop. What should i do in that situation? Now, i'm NOT saying that i need to camp because "well i lost the game anyway" i'm trying to win, not facecamp because i'm mad. What reason do i have to leave the hook?
