General Discussions
General Discussions
Killer perks made useless by tacked-on prerequisites
- Surge (Basic attack)
- Knockout (Basic attack)
- Franklin's Demise (They have an eternity to go get their stuff back)
- Spirit Fury (Have to go through 4 entire pallets just to basically chainsaw through 1)
- Blood Favor (only 16 meters????? that's like one pallet)
- Remember Me (Barely worth using already, but the obsession is immune to it for some reason?)
I'm gonna leave Sloppy off this list because I think that's fair, it's a big debuff. But for some reason the balance team is extremely hesitant to just let a perk be simple. No one would suddenly become monstrously OP if Surge could be triggered by a Hatchet throw.
Comments
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Surge and Knockout I agree
Franklins doesn't signal to the survivor
Spirit Fury is 2 pallets at level 3
Blood Favor is just bad but honestly you didn't tackle to main issue of it having a cool down
Remember Me is still an alright perk, but I agree that the obsession thing doesn't make sense anymore since the nerf back in 2019
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Surge they're not touching because the don't think it would be fair if someone downs themselves via deep wound bleed-out or that one Trapper add-on (I have no clue why).
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A lot of the requirements hold killers back which is odd considering how all of them are department on Survivors to activate. If Survivors are playing poorly the frequency of a perk's benefit is still a result of their actions, oppressiveness does not need be a factor for the Survivors benefit.
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I have never, in my entire time playing this game, downed myself on a bleedout timer
If that happens, they deserve it
I think the main issue is the distance, 16m is so negligible that you'll often never get a single use out of it unless you're on Gideon Meat plant. I wouldn't care about the cooldown if it actually ended loops. 40 seconds is fair if the distance is 28 meters or so.
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Franklins is on me though, I misread that perk. Still though, it's not very helpful considering how long it takes items to lose their charges. they get 1.5 to 2 entire minutes to go grab their stuff.
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Dead Mans Switch exists btw.
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Real talk, even if the perks were better, people wouldn't hop off BBQ, NOED, or Ruin regardless. They are too essential, well, maybe NOED is expendable. I just like having an insurance policy.
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Surge has a CD tho so it would kinda of be okay. Also does eruption go off on bleed out downs? Because if not then they already have the code to make surge work on power usage downs
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It says if a survivor is put into the dying state by anything IIRC, but it might not count passed power based downs and basics. Considering how hard it is to go down to deep wounds it just doesn't come up.
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Surge is one of the best perks in the game lmfao
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if you're playing an m1, sure
If you're not, it sucks. And there isn't really a reason it should have that problem.
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It really is helpful tho and can be a game changer, say a survivor brings in a med kit, they might not be able to fully heal with said med kit if they lost it to Franklins earlier in the match
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That's pretty useless on medkits, you're losing an entire health state if you drop it for even a second, unless for some reason you brought charges in multiples other than 16.
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Eruption activates when a survivor is downed by any means. So I don't understand why it would be a problem since it has a cool down
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maybe i'm a little biased since I primarily play m1 killers, but I don't think it's a huge deal that there's a perk that caters more towards us.
Knowing our luck, BHVR would find a reason to nerf Surge's CD or base regression %.
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Its really isn't as its still too restrictive to make it anything more then a secondary regression perk.
Regardless of the above it still doesn't make sense that it doesn't work with demo's power when its one one of demo's perks.
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I have seen 2 people fall due to bleed out. 1 was a new player who seemed to be unaware of the requirement. The other was a cocky survivor who stopped moving to teabag in the gates, went down to it, and got hooked; it was quite satisfying and hilarious.
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It doesn't require you to kick all the gens in the area, which saves loads of time, if you get more than a down in less than it's cooldown the pressure you have is high enough anyway. Of course it's not as good as ruin, but I'm also good enough not having to rely on ruin, i just take surge for the free destruction bloodpoints without having to kick anything
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Your not saving time with pop as you rarely kick generators due to how bad the regression is.
The time saved argument never made sense even if kicking was good as RUIN is the main kicking time saver as you literally don't have to kick when its active.(Yes I know you brought up ruin but ruin literally invalidates the entire time saved argument)
Also survivors dictate where surge procs where survivors want as they dictate where they go down at.
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Meanwhile Infectious Fright...
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Gearhead wins the award over all of these for the most underwhelming perk.
And Trail of Torment isn't nearly as bad but it still has issues.
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I don't get your last point: they don't really have much choice if you push them towards an area, and even if they run towards an area where gens have already been completed then surge simply doesn't go on cooldown and can still be used. Also it's up to the killer and the situation whether to commit to the chase in that specific scenario
I brought up ruin to specify that it is in fact better than surge, but that doesn't mean that surge is bad, it's a very good perk on all killers that M1 to down.
Btw, I would arguable *restrict* infectious fright to the same level that surge has, considering how strong it is on certain killers. I'm saying this because infectious is always taken as argument to underline how surge should have less restrictions, while I argue that it is in fact strong enough (on the killers that actually make use of it) to be in need of more restrictions itself
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"Btw, I would arguable *restrict* infectious fright to the same level that surge has, considering how strong it is on certain killers. I'm saying this because infectious is always taken as argument to underline how surge should have less restrictions, while I argue that it is in fact strong enough (on the killers that actually make use of it) to be in need of more restrictions itself"
And there's the motive folks:
They just want to keep killer perks bad and they want more killer perks to be nerfed.
Thanks for coming honest.
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Infectious Fright was released to be on M1 only and no ran it.
If anything it's more of a reason why Surge should be changed than why Infectious Fright shouldn't work on power downs.
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Thank Christ knockout is a basic attack.
A terrible perk to see from the survivor's POV, especially when it comes to the visuals & sounds... Imagine if blight's rush activated knockout.... Slug Nurse 2.0
Surge I feel like it should allow some attacks, ranged attacks are out of the discussion.
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Knockout didn't always have a basic attack requirement and it wasn't op on anyone.
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You wont believe how many people are actually go down because of that.
Also for some reason survivors seems like they dont understand the bleedout timer doesnt stop while they are in a locker.
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Surge makes me sad. It could he a great perk but it has too many limitations. Must be a basic attack, has an extremely limited range, and has a cool down timer for some reason. Oppression is even worse. Great perk held back by an Insanely long cool down.
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Doesn't Eruption need you to kick the gens first to get any value from it? Spend time now to save time later while surge just saves time
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It also can effect up to 7 generators and prevents survivors on exploded generators from interacting with any generator,totem, or healing for 16 seconds.
Ps: The time saved argument doesn't work in a world where both base kicks are worthless and Ruin exists.
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And yet working on all 7 generators requires you to kick all 7 generators before you get a single down, meaning the survivors were absolute garbage or you're genuinely throwing the game.
PS. Ruin is a hex perk and can be removed from the game, can work in combo with surge as it temporarily pauses progression on a proc, and despite base regression being worthless it's still saving you time from having to kick a gen you otherwise wouldn't, or buys you an additional 3 seconds while working together with ruin which no other slowdown does.
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What hex has a cooldown? That's what makes me upset.
It's a hex it's supposed to be strong, it gets countered by doing bones
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"They", excuse me what are you implying with that word?
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I think warcrafter was just trying to be respectful, since they implies you don't know someone's preferred pronouns and so sticking to the gender neutral ones until you know is the most respectful way of going about it.
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I don't know, it really sounded like "those survivors just want to nerf all killers perks"
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I think it mightve just been you specifically wanting to nerf all killer perks lmao
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Remember me is being overshadowed by the new No Way Out buff coming soon.
If anything it would just encourage the devs not to buff Remember me as the two combined would be ridiculous.
I never liked the obsession being exempt thing either, it only encourages tunnelling out the obsession once you get all your stacks.
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Just one second on a brown medkit is enough to prevent you from healing fully with it (except you hit a great skillcheck). Same goes for ranger medkit or yellow madkit with gauze, you won't get two heals out of it if you are not lucky with the skill checks.
And don't underestimate how long it might take for you to pick your item back up again. If the killer commits to you after the first franklins hit, you will spend some more time in chase, being downed and hocked, and waiting for your unhooker. One hook state is 80 seconds, that alone can deplete your item more than 50%. If you are not in comms with others so they can pick up your item for you, the charges will likely be gone when you get off the hook.
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Even so... Actually yeah that's what I want, i want killers to be miserable. Exhaustion should be reverted to depleting even while running, so we could use multiple dead hards in the same chase
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There are
survivors perks
that are made useless
by killer perks
and add ons
too
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LOL that's crazy talk.
- Surge is one of the best perks in the game and is in the ballpark of Ruin Tinker CI.
- Knockout is situational but far from useless. It's good in builds where you are screwing with survivors by taking away their aura reading.
- Franklin's is a good perk and is very good at inconveniencing survivors. It either gets rid of their item, so no flashlight blinds and stuff like that, and it makes them waste their time picking up their item if they want it back.
- Spirit Fury is a solid perk and was even meta once upon a time during the Spirit Meta.
- Blood Favor isn't super strong but is still a decent perk at worst. It can easily make the difference between a 1 minute chase and a 30 second chase.
- Remember Me is solid for endgame builds. I have seen Freddy's turn a game around and get 4 kills in the endgame using Blood Warden, NoEd and Remember Me.
It's also fairly obvious you're an M2 killer who doesn't have good M1 basics.
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So M1 killers aren't worth talking about? That's more crazy talk.
Like I thought, you're clearly an M2-dependent killer. Even Bubba uses M1. Good killers know when to use M1 and when to use their M2 power.
And just because a perk is better used by an M1 killer doesn't make it useless like you are trying to say. Lots of people play M1 killers and there are a lot of strong M1 killers. Heck the strongest killers in the game are M1 killers.
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I main Clown, but please keep trying to imply that I'm bad at the game because I want more perks for more characters
I just want other killers to be able to use the good builds, don't know why you're so uppity about it
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The person I replied to said the reason why the devs won't touch surge is because they don't think it would be fair if someone downs themselves via deep wound bleed-out or the honing stone trapper add-on.
Which is why I brought up eruption since it says downs by any means
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Correct, however Surge requires no pre-preparation while Eruption's value is based upon how much work goes into preparing the perk.
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