People who say dead hard has no counter…
Are you also advocating for tinkerer to be changed, as there is no way to avoid it being activated? Compared to other information perks such as BBQ, discordance, etc there is no workaround, and thus zero counterplay. You can’t advocate for DH to be changed because of lacking counter if you don’t hold the same standards for tinkerer.
Comments
-
Dead hard does have a counter - the servers.
16 -
Those two perks don't even function the same way.
49 -
Spine Chill counters Tinkerer fine. SWF counters it even better.
41 -
Doesn’t matter, the argument for changing DH is that it has no counter, neither does tinkerer.
4 -
Yeah this is why I never use it
4 -
I mean you can still see the killer(If the killer is on an open map), hear them(oni, demo, myers, pyramid head, etc.), and spine chill exists.
15 -
Okay so killers should just start using coup to counter dead hard then, problem solved! You can’t call psychic prediction of what perks someone is going to use counter.
3 -
Coup de grace also exists, why don’t killers use it to counter dead hard then? Gens more often than not are in a building, behind a T&L wall, etc.
2 -
The Undetectable isn't the good part of Tinkerer, it's the information.
3 -
Yeah, exactly. It gives that on top of arguably better info than BBQ and discordance give, and that’s all they give.
2 -
People who say there is a counter to Dead Hard.....You are right.
People who say there is a counter to Tinkerer.....You are right.
Sooooo what's the problem?
11 -
Let’s hear this magical way to counter tinkerer activating like there is for BBQ and discordance. Not doing gens?
0 -
You can tell how biased people are on here, people saying spine chill is a counter to DH get upvotes, but me saying coup counters dead hard, nothing lol
0 -
Countered by Iron Will?
Just don't injure Survivors lmao.
9 -
Because coup can be used only 5 times. Spine chill is always active
21 -
Information, huh? Then try to explain how the killer is supposed to counter all the information sharing via comms in SWFs?
3 -
Because having 1 gen pop = 1 regular hit but with a longer reach, doesn't seem like a good trade-off. While gens are behind some kind of structure, you can still position yourself (at most places) where you have a better viewpoint.
4 -
Whataboutism at its finest.
Though, information sharing isn't anything. Yes it'll make any team coordinated but they need to be decent players alone or else you'll still win, least in my own personal experience.
How do you counter it? Simple, play better and prey on the overaltruism. How do you counter a tournament squad? You don't. You hope BHVR finally buffs solo basekit so they can give killers buffs across the board.
2 -
Whataboutism started with comparing an information perk with a several-extra-lives-per-trial perk.
How do you counter Tinkerer? Simple, play better and prey on the killer being too far away.
8 -
Tinkerer is only a problem when paired with Ruin and Undying, both of which are Hex perks that can be removed. Afterwards, Tinkerer is hardly a threat.
Meanwhile, DH being used to reach a pallet or window is something that cannot be countered.
5 -
Spine chill won’t be active if the killer is smart enough to notice it and look away
2 -
couldnt care less as a solo player
1 -
Yeah, that’s really helpful against nurse and blight…
0 -
Yeah because Freddy and Blight are two easy killers to do that to.
Information perk of Tinkerer being uncountable in solo and information between swf mates has literally zero correlation and if you see there is one please fire your optician with immidiate effect
1 -
Way to draw a bad comparison, one is very strong chase perk that gets used in every chase with injured survivor that has it.
Other is semi-stealth ambush perk that is very meh on all killers who don't have extreme mobility.
At that point we can argue how does killer stop deja vu from activating. It's silly and drawing any comparsion between perks that are so far apart is nothing but a strawman.
18 -
It really seems like some people are just miserable playing the game and posting on the forums.
I truly feel bad for them.
5 -
The people who care the most bleat the loudest. BVHR has had 5 years to fix several glaring issues, and it hasn't been done in that time. Indeed, they seem stuck in a time loop that requires them to take a step back for each step forward. If only my job gave me a 5 year window to fix serious problems, holy #########. That'd be heaven.
Of course, we all know that it doesn't work that way in most places. But hey, that's cool - it's going to take a Blizzard tier wake up for them to do anything, lacking competition and all. It's just a shame it's gotten here.
0 -
I mean tinkerer does have a counter.
Doing gens seperatly. If 2 tinkerers proc there is only one place the killer can go.
I'm sure there are examples from the killers perk list you can use but tinkerer really isn't one of them
3 -
Is this what you are after with your posts? Upvotes?
I am sure there are some sheep out there that will upvote your insane threads.
I feel like you want to be a Sluzzy/Lord tony so bad.....But fall short.
16 -
Coup only gets 5 uses per game. Spine Chill will work all game. That’s why there’s a discrepancy in upvotes.
I
6 -
Yes - The issues are so endemic that the game has been saddled with the burden of continuous growth since Beta.
Given that this was their most successful year in terms of player count (and most likely financially) 5 years into the game, perhaps you should drop off a resume and show them what they're doing wrong/how it's done.
Better still, why not fire off a resume to one of the companies that attempted to compete and folded like a sheet of paper?
I am sure your insight and input, as well as your stellar attitude, will be valuable assets :3
1 -
This isn't about me, so I'd ask that you keep it on the topic, thanks. Going to a common fallacy (appeal to accomplishment, specifically) isn't going to make your point look good. My point still stands, that 5 years after this game has come out, it still has an insane number of glaring issues that are known about and not being addressed. Or, if I were to give the benefit of the doubt, they're being addressed at a snail's pace. With all the success you claim BVHR has had, especially this year, you'd think those resources could go into hiring more people for Q/A, programming, or something else that could add additional value to the game's long term health.
However, rather than acknowledging my argument, you've instead decided to deflect my criticism by saying "Oh but the game is showing growth, so clearly what you're saying doesn't hold water. Why don't you apply and do better?" Yeah, that's not going to work here.
4 -
There are perkless ways to counter both, which have worked well for me.
For Dead Hard, if I suspect they have it, I will bait them and get them to force the Dead Hard. After the initial burst, they have a period where they are slower (however brief) before returning to the normal 4.0m/s. So, forcing it allows the killer to still keep close and will secure that hit in most cases I've forced them. Otherwise, Dead Hard gives a brief boost to get to a pallet, which is just a good way to get to protection sooner.
For Tinkerer, there are a few examples: If you are watching the rate of the gen and it gets to about 70%, and the sound of the killer's terror radius suddenly dips, then that's a very clear sign to be aware. Beyond that, using eyes and ears is always useful, and putting yourself by the side of the gen with the best view around you is necessary. Also, like Myers in Tier 1, killers will be making some sort of sound when almost on you, and although it is tight, a good ear may get you out of harm's way.
Anyway, those 2 perks have counters even without taking into account perks like Spine Chill, Perception and Coupe de Grace. They're tried and tested ways of countering both perks.
0 -
I'm fairly certain that I imply in my first sentence that the issues you feel are pressing or endemic aren't seen as such by a majority, and also touch on the fact that any competition has swiftly died, which is totally strange when going up against a game that's apparently going to die if 'competition' looks its way.
I most likely could have used a better framing device, for sure.
I don't need to argue with you or prove anything, given the reality of the situation and state/popularity of the game.
Edited to add - In the interest of complete transparency, I do think that their previous gen optimization issues should be a larger priority.
0 -
Alright, that tells me what I need to know. Have a good day.
0 -
Thanks
You, too, for real!
0 -
There is a difference between a perk that can't be countered but you can't choose when to use it and a perk that can't be countered and you can choose when to use it, it tows the fine line between fair and unfair depending on the strength of the effect
You don't choose when tinkerer activates buts its a extremely strong effect, which balances out
You can choose when deadhard activates and its an extremely strong effect, which doesn't balance out its strong effect
5 -
Perks aren't supposed to be counterable, I honestly don't have a problem with neither. Tinkerer imo was a bit overbuffed, but it's not impossible to deal with, same with Dead Hard.
1 -
How am I going to communicate that strategy to my solo queue teammates? Why are people only ever looking at the game from SWF POV, so annoying.
0 -
Not what I said at all. I make a completely fair comparison and suddenly because it doesn’t agree with your opinion, I’m just a troll account. Seriously, why is it so controversial to say anything is too strong on the killer side? But it’s complete consensus to say SWF is OP, half the killers need a buff, etc. This sub is so blatantly killer sided, which is very strange as much more people play survivor.
0 -
I'd be very fine with deleting both these perks, thanks.
0 -
Already disproven. Perceptive killers will know when someone has spine chill, look at Otz, and be able to counter it.
0 -
Tinkerer counters: spine chill, being mindful of timing/progress (coupled with blast mine)
Dead hard counters: instadowns, locker grabs, baiting
0 -
I never use dead hard so sure
0 -
You did t think this one through friend. Spinchill and depending on gen location your own eyes can counter tinkerer
0 -
Dead Hard obviously has counters, Servers and walls 🤣
0 -
Local ignorant OP opens his argument with the usual 'whataboutism' rather than forming an actual argument about DH itself. In other words you're not really worth arguing with.
Ah yes, you can't change x because of y. Two unrelated things, from two unrelated sides. Dur, I can only compare things to other things. If you're going to whine about Tinkerer, at least make an argument against that, rather than justify one perk with another.
I don't think any perk that rewards you for playing greedy, for making mistakes, for getting outplayed, and extending a chase for quite an long period of time, all granted by what's essentially a third health state, is in any way healthy for the game.
Tinkerer? Tinkerer is only good on killers that can apply pressure real quick. Freddy, Billy, Blight, maybe Wraith. It's essentially a perk that benefits already strong killers and not so much weaker ones, so in that regard it is a bit strong, but it's not something that's gamebreaking either. it also requires you to often break a chase, or directly apply pressure to said gen and survivors, and you can't defend that generator forever. If anything it's more strong when combined with Ruin, which also can be eliminated, too.
7 -
Tinkerer - Be Vigalente
BBQ - Get out of range or hide in a locker
Dead Hard - Bait it out
Dead Hard (for distance) - No counter
I don't think DH needs to be nerfed, I think it needs a risk factor.
1 -
It has no counter, that's why despite all its jank and awful results at times, it's probably the most popular exhaustion perk. You cannot counter a good survivor using dead hard to extend a loop or chain another loop because even with coup, they'll likely just use it to reach a pallet and give you a delicious taste of hit validation.
The issue with dead hard is that it can have WAY too much impact for ONE perk. It can turn one survivor into a complete game changer and deny the killer the momentum they need and probably earned if they pushed the survivor to using it. 30 extra seconds (varies of course) is MASSIVE in the grand scheme of things. Now, consider this on 3 or 4 survivors, which is ABUNDANTLY common in red rank queues. You suddenly have survivors that ALL have the potential to extend chase by a fair amount that you likely can't even counter. Even with coup, you only have 5 stacks that you MUST make count, and let's face it, you're not always in a position too, let alone some stacks being consumed despite not even going for a lunge, or needing it to get a first hit quickly.
It isn't the same with sprint burst where you can cut off but also needs to be forcibly triggered at the start of the chase. It's strong, and some would say stronger than dead hard, but I find it much more manageable when you're experienced at the game than dead hard used by good players.
Also coup ######### sucks why would you ever run it even on a chill, no-slowdown build? It's jank and can only be used five times, and that's if you're struggling lol.
What to do with dead hard? I think it should be reworked in a way that it's no longer a 'Press E to extend chase' and moreso a 'dodge' that's more consistent than what it is now. No distance gained but the killer whiffing can go a long way.
2 -
bad bait thread
1
