After Running Small Game I Noticed Something
So I've ran Small Game for quite some time now and I've slowly noticed how little people actually do Dull Totems. Keep in mind with the Perk I gain a Token every time someone else does a Totem as well.
I constantly run into killers with NoED (I'm not complaining about it just stating a fact) and it amazes me how much people complain about NoED but don't want to do Dull Totems. Like ever. You will run into the occasional Inner Strength which is the only time I notice players doing Dull Totems.
I have also run into people crouch spamming or clicking at me while doing Dull Totems which is quite funny. One time I had a survivor clicky click at me doing totems and after the game the killer had NoED (who would'a guessed right). The players proceeded to question me in end-game chat why I was doing that which from the killers perks should of made it obvious.
While I do ultimately feel (as a killer main) that NoED is kind of unhealthy for the game and sorta like an MMR booster currently, I do see it should remain in the game while a plethora of second chance survivor perks in the game. In addition to being the only reason to even do Dull Totems.
All is to say, if your complaining about NoED.....do Dull Totems. From my experience nobody will do them, then complain when they die to it in end-game chat. Even with me running Small Game, there are times where I wasn't able to get all 5 totems in the game due to being chased most of the game, or being cornered off from a side of the map (because we all know how killers play if they are using NoED).
Comments
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I'm of the opinion that, since the reality of the situation is that most of my teammates won't be running totem perks, and since the killer may not even be running NOED, doing dull totems "just in case" is counterproductive because in general the easiest to find totems will be cleansed first resulting in making NOED that much harder to find for all my totem-perkless teammates. Therefore, the most efficient strategy is to just remember where the dull totems you come across are, and to check them once you know that the killer has NOED, so that the hex has a chance to spawn at the T/L wall tile in the middle of the map as opposed to the barely visible debris covered totem in the corner of the map that nobody knows about.
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I've been running Small Game a bunch lately. I've noticed if there aren't any hexes in play 1 in 4 games have someone cleanse a dull totem. At least in my experience. Z
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"Just do bones" in response to noed is not a good response.
Cleansing 5 dull totems, which in most cases does nothing for you, in the preparation that the killer might have one of 90 something perks out of the 4 they can choose is just a waste of time most of the time.
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Small game counters all hexes thus obsolete if in fact anyone ever did totems like you said.
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It's purely a waste of time to do dulls in over 90% of matches
It's best to just do gens and if the killer has NOED, let him get his one pity-kill
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Because if you spend time hunting and cleansing dull totems, you throw more matches due to inefficiency than you save from NOED.
I do dull totems in matches where we’re ahead in terms of gen pressure, but if the killer is applying more pressure than my team then I have bigger worries than a perk they probably don’t even have.
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As a frequent Small Game user myself, I have noticed that as well. People just want to do gens. Small Game, Detective's Hunch, even now Counterforce counters all hexes, I rarely see anyone running any of the 3 perks. Then complain about noed.
I see some arguments going on about how cleansing all 5 bones is a time waster for a gamble of a perk the killer might not even have. My thing about that, which I also agree about it being time consuming, is the wording sounds like they expect themselves to do all 5 dull totems. If a single survivor does all 5 totems during the match instead of gens.. I agree that's more often than not, not very optimal. However, why should it be on only single one survivor to do all the 5 totems? There's five. One for each survivor to do with one for spare if another survivor cleanses it. What's the whole time wasted of doing one single bone you see after doing that gen to your right? If the killer has an insane amount of pressure, then yeah the bones are back burner of priority.
Bones to do in solo imo is the worst expectation you can ask or assume of solo survivors to do. Solo is already hard enough, the killer can easily wipe out a disorganized solo so most of the time bones aren't even on the list to do. There's no communication to tell each other, "Hey I found some bones over here, how many do we have left?" I have been in a solo team that we all synchronized very well together, a super rare thing in solo queue and all bones got done and in the end I saw the killer had noed. In the case of having a weaker team where pressure is applied, at the endgame, I use Small Game to find the noed once its discovered. If you aren't gonna do bones, you can use it as a detector to maybe find it before the killer gets a kill.
In a swf? Well I think we all know how swf goes so no need to elaborate on that.
Point is, there's 5 totems. One for each person, one for a bonus to cleanse, a team game so a team effort to do all the bones. Like I mentioned you can also use the totem perks to locate noed in the endgame.
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Cleansing Dull Totems is a waste of time. It does nothing to your Objective, in fact, you can also just kill your team, because all the seconds you are spending to find and cleanse Dull Totems are just time you are not on Generators. Which can even lead to a point that the Team cannot finish all Gens and then it is not relevant at all if the Killer had NOED or not.
NOED is basically a double-benefit - either the Killer can get it and will have at least 1K extra OR the Killer gets massive Slowdown because Survivors do something which is not their Objective for a Perk the Killer might not even have.
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If NOED didn’t even exist in this game, than there would be no point in doing dull totems.
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It amazes those of us who play killer a lot to see people on the forum actively argue that they shouldn't have to do bones.
Like every thread when someone complains about NOED, people tell them to do bones and they get super mad about it like doing totems is such a huge inconvenience
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This!!
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See
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There's no benefit in cleasing dulls apart from preventing NOED. Boldness is the easiest category to fill so the 1000BP is useless. Most of the time it's better to just memorize the spots and, if the killer has NOED, check those. If you go totem hunting for the 5 totems you're essentially adding a full generator time to the game.
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Yep, people actively rail against cleansing totems and bend over backwards to justify why they shouldn't have to do it even though they have more than enough people, perks, and items to make finding and cleansing totems a breeze.
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Run detectives hunch and maybe in between gens, cleanse a totem or 2. I wouldn’t expect a teammate to spend the whole match totem hunting.
my friends and I get every totem done and escape without worrying about Noed at least in most of our matches.
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"My friends and I" omg, who would've thought cleansing totems with a SWF is easy!
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You honestly look at NOED, which takes bare minimum 1 generator of time to remove from the game (with no guarantee it's even in the game), and you don't think anything's wrong with that risk/reward ratio?
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I'm the person who cleanses three or four totems and then dies to NOED at the end while my teammates teabag the killer at the door. While on the one hand I want something to slow the game down and I do think survivors should do bones, on the other hand NOED is all or nothing and goddammit if I do three dull totems and NOED still activates why can't the other survivors just fall into the dying state immediately when the last gen pops while I remain fine, that seems way more fair.
Here's the thing: when playing survivor, you rely on your teammates, but teammates can really suck. NOED highlights that problem.
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I would still do them for bloodpoints and inner strength heals. NOED is whatever.
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No, I don't.
Doing totems is worth a decent amount of bp, prevents late game and endgame issues, and generally just gives me something else to do other than hammering out gens.
I've been playing this game since 2016 when totems were much harder to deal with. Now, we have so many anti-totem perks that I barely bother memorizing spawns for them anymore. Even when I don't run them I usually move around the map a lot without getting chased very much so I cleanse any I come across.
There is zero reason not to do bones unless you're goal is quick escapes. My goal is get bp so I do the things that get me worthwhile bp like bones and gens
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There's no point in doing dull totems for the most part. Chances are the killer doesn't even have NOED. And if they do, you can cleanse just ONE totem. It's much easier, less time consuming. You might not even have to cleanse it. just leave someone to die on hook.
Only totems you want to do are the hard to find ones, and only if you happen to see them. Going out of your way to find totems for a perk the killer most likely doesn't even have (NoED isn't that common) isn't a good way to spend your time. Now if the killer is struggling, cleansing totems might not be a bad use of your time. They probably are using NOED and you have time to cleanse them. Or if you bring Detective's Hunch.
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I guarantee that a good portion of your losses happen because you actually stopped and did 5 totems, thus giving the killer an indirect slowdown perk
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You'd be wrong.
Most of my survivor losses come from trying to make saves when other players refuse to or ending up in a early game chase. Looping isn't my strong suit.
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continue being dead weight, cleansing in preperation for a perk the killer doesn't have and giving him 1 less survivor to pressure
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Considering I usually do most of the gens in my games while also getting totems done the only person who seems like they'd be dead weight on a team is you judging by your attitude.
Now, if you're going to keep insulting me I going to start flagging your posts. I am not in the mood to deal with being insulted.
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Just saying that you're advised against saying "I'm going to flag/report you" under forum rules
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Even before using the new small game I could have told you the community is terrible at doing dull totems. They’re even bad at looking for Hex totems half the time. Players take a HUGE risk trying to do gens with Ruin up, vs. against a Blight or Billy with Tinkerer. Yet they still chance.
And to OP’s point, this is why players don’t do totems. This mentality. I personally don’t agree with it. Totems give you points, Hex Plaything punishes your team severely for not doing them, Killers complain about gen speed- so it gives them a small break.
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The most ironic thing is that if the whole community would embrace the "do bones"mentality on each totem they randomly find then the average time for cleansing all 5 would probably go down to roughly 20-30 seconds.
And to the aspect "why should I play around something that might not even be in play", killer already have to play around the assumption of roughly 5-10 perks and other things, like DS, BT, ub (or any get up perk), dh, head-on, potential flashlight saves, survivor close by when pickup at pallets or even niche things like power struggle. Killer never know if a survivor has any of that stuff until they get hit/dodged/denied by it and THEN have to remember the setup of 4 individuals.
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If every survivor cleansed totems then all 5 could be removed from the map with minimal cost to gen speed. sadly everyone thinks like you and just cries for NOED to be removed so they can switch their brains off even more.
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IMO, i feel its better to leave the totems alone so theres a greater chance at finding NOED when it happens.
If you cleans 4 totems and theres NOED, you have to go find the last totem.
If you saw 4 totems but didnt cleanse them and theres NOED, you have a 4/5 chance at finding it really easily.
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Just find the lit totem once it activates then.
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Sure, that's fine.
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Most people do tend to ignore totems. I break them whenever I find them, but I only really prioritize them if I have a challenge, a totem build, or if I suspect the killer has NOED.
I've only ever had survivors pull my attention away from a totem when they wanna break it instead.
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And thats why I say that totems should nerf gen speed by 30% when that happens Im sure they will waste time searching em.Also a NOED nerf survs wink
I Highly doubt u prefer to be 110 secs pressing m1
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It's not 'bending over backwards'. It's explaining why doing dull totems is an incredibly bad counter to NOED.
I've been explaining it over and over and over, and there's still clowns on this forum going 'just do bones' whenever someone points out that NOED is a horribly designed perk.
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Yeah because when you also notice I have blood warden and you didn't leave fast enough? Thank you for wiping the whole squad.
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At the end of the day, unless someone is paying for your game, you play how you damn well please. There are merits and downfalls to both doing totems and not doing totems, there is no real 'right way' when you're playing against a guessing game with NOED. Personally, I am somewhere in the middle. Most of the time, unless in a challenge I will cleanse every totem I see, but I don't go hunting for them. If NOED procs, I'll hunt down them shiny bones.
However, I will say I have lost count of the many times I have avoided NOED because somewhere along the line everyone did their bit and cleansed a totem or two.
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Detective's Hunch would like to know the totem's location. (One of my favorite perks even before they buffed it. Post-buff, I almost want to say it's a little overpowered because it pretty much invalidates Small Game.)
EDIT: I agree on lack of survivors doing bones. I'm usually the only one on them, but it might be because I'm preemptively doing dull totems with Detective's Hunch, so I usually "See" the totems before other survivors do. I like doing dulls for the boldness BP as I'm a bad looper.
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i don't hunt them but I don't often run by and leave them be. usually easy points
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As you said OP people will only get rid of Totems if they see Ruin being used... so that means they are targeting the Hex perk itself
And also like you said Killers are starting to use NOED (which I think is fair giving that it only activates after the last Gen is popped... also I thik that if the Devs were going to change it I wouldn't be to upset by it)
I have noticed that as well (minus a Meg who cleared a Totem in one of my games)
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Sometimes cleansing dulls but you don't cleanse em all can ######### you over if you get all the super obvious spots but you can't find the uber hidden ones it's over
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That's because it wasn't designed as a Hex perk--the change to a Hex and activation condition were a way to counter the perk instead of just getting screwed every time the killer had it.
I will say "just do bones" every time somebody suggests that NOED is overpowered, or that it should be removed. I only find it fair that I play around perks that I don't know if the killer has, because chances are more than likely that the killer will be doing the same for me.
Then again, I started playing this game around the time it came out, so my perspective on "fair" is probably a little off.
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Don't do any dulls if you're not going to do them all. Otherwise all you'll be doing is getting rid of the obvious totems and ensuring that NOED spawns in one of the really hard to find places.
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Except Bloodwarden has such simple counterplay that barely anyone uses it
Even if you don't 99% gates, you can just stealth out the timer because you have nothing better to do.
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Well not many ever seemed to counter it with no way out, NoED and Blood warden as they sure couldn't find my NoED a few times and no way out kept them around long enough to get one on the hook the moment the door opened. Now this wasn't always the case but it was a severely painful process for them to endure lol.
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The fact of the matter is this:
- No one is saying you should actively HUNT Dull Totems (until it becomes obvious the killer more than likely have NoED)
- The idea that "doing dull totems" as you find them, is a waste of time is plain wrong. (you only need to technically do 4 and the 5 one can be left, so ~1min of interaction)
- Killers who run NoED as a core part of their build are admittedly mediocre in chase so are forced to use this when all the gens are inevitably done.
Now this is much more of a nuanced topic then either "just do totems" or "totems waste time". With that being said, in the general case of a killer running NoED, there is more than ample time to do a totems as you see them. I seen someone argue it can hurt your team more than help which is just wrong. No other way to put it. No one is advising people to do a dull totem when all other 3 survivors are on hook and you see one. This is a ridiculous assertion. There are very few cases where doing a Dull Totem as you see it is when there are still 4 survivors left is "hurting your team"
I wish to expand on the cases where NoED is usually used. Like I mentioned in the OP and this comment, people who tend to run NoED often are not so great in chase (majorly speaking). This leaves room for a decent survivor to effectively running this killer well over 45 seconds until going down. Which is more than enough time to sneak in a totem or two after finishing a gen your working on without "wasting time".
If it's not obvious, then I will tell you this. If you notice a killer doesn't have Ruin, Corrupt, or Pop....there is a GOOD chance they are running NoED. Sometimes even in combination with things like Ruin.
I'm not entirely sure what the opinion is in this forums space is, but NoED is not a very good perk. Period. If you are running into killers every game using it then sneak in dull totems because chances are they are sacrificing this for a decent slowdown perk, or they are not great in chase. Which like mentioned, give you the time to do totems. You really don't even need a totem perk to do this, just learn the potential spawns of totems within a map.
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This is EASILY solved by using a totem perk LIKE Small Game. If you don't wish to give up Iron Will or BT, then DONT do the obvious ones. Spend a few seconds extra after you complete a gen to look in the harder to find spots, because at the end of the day even the "hard to find" ones can still be easily found if you know the tile-sets of a given map.
It's crazy to me that something so obvious has to be explained.
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