Plans to adress genrush?

Master

About 7 months ago we got this reaction from the devs regarding the depip squad experiment:
https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyEagerAlfalfa4Head

Nothing has happened regarding generator time so far. Is there something coming, do you have any plans or do you guys from BHVR intend to leave the situation as it is?

twistedmonkey

Apparently the survivor pustules in the event are a way for them to tell the impact of adding a new objective to slow the game down alon wih the slight healing nerf designed to slow the survivors down a bit more.

Anything that has changed in the past few month from pallets, vaulting mechanic, making the survivor take more time to do something, aura and one hit down perks are all designed to try and help killers get hooks faster to compensate for how fast survivors sit on gens.

Its a hard one to balance as you have those that do totems and those who dont, side objectives change the speed quite a lot, they also dont want to have survivors downed easier just to be camped and probably why its taking longer, while its a valid strategy its not fun and thats the name of the game.

iceman2kx

I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

Master

@twistedmonkey said:
Apparently the survivor pustules in the event are a way for them to tell the impact of adding a new objective to slow the game down alon wih the slight healing nerf designed to slow the survivors down a bit more.

Anything that has changed in the past few month from pallets, vaulting mechanic, making the survivor take more time to do something, aura and one hit down perks are all designed to try and help killers get hooks faster to compensate for how fast survivors sit on gens.

Its a hard one to balance as you have those that do totems and those who dont, side objectives change the speed quite a lot, they also dont want to have survivors downed easier just to be camped and probably why its taking longer, while its a valid strategy its not fun and thats the name of the game.

Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

Master

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

Blueberry

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

I think the extra "flowers" or whatever they end up being should be required to work on gens, not optional.

iceman2kx

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

The depip squad is an exception. How often do you run across elite SWF groups? It doesn't matter if there's mandatory additional objectives, an elite SWF is still going to wreck a killer. Nerfing survivors based on an elite group is totally going to ruin the game for average/solo survivors.

On the flipside, you could also do the same as killer right? Equip the best add-ons and offerings. You could camp and tunnel easily and call yourself a "depip killer". The average killer doesn't play that hard though.

Master

@iceman2kx said:

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

The depip squad is an exception. How often do you run across elite SWF groups? It doesn't matter if there's mandatory additional objectives, an elite SWF is still going to wreck a killer. Nerfing survivors based on an elite group is totally going to ruin the game for average/solo survivors.

On the flipside, you could also do the same as killer right? Equip the best add-ons and offerings. You could camp and tunnel easily and call yourself a "depip killer". The average killer doesn't play that hard though.

During the last double BP event I accidentially ranked up to rank 1 again by playing too much (I dont even know why you can rank up that far in a few days lol). I was genrushed so many times by said SWF that are "the exception" that I stopped playing DBD on the last BP day and actually deranked again.
Until they buff the low tier killers I like to play or introduce a viable killer I enjoy playing, I will continue hovering below red ranks.

If you dont balance the game aroudn high lvl gameplay, then you are simply ruining the game for killers at high lvl. And if solo survivors dont play well enough to compete with said SWF, well then they simply shouldnt be at rank 1.

Either that or introduce a SWF game mode, because apparently you agree with the power difference of SWF and solo

twistedmonkey

@Master said:
Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

Not really as to start with the games were a lot easier for killer with every survivor trying to get vials, think about why they stopped allowing them to keep harvesting them? it comes down to seeing what happens when not all but 1,2,3 or 4 people doing a second objective affects the game also.

The depip squad was a while ago, think about what they have introduced or changed since then to make chases shorter and killer more powerful, bamboozle, bitter murmur, tinkerer, spirit fury, haunting grounds to name a few, the only real ones used prior to these were NOED, Nurses, BBQ and MYC.

The depip squad also was a group of people each with thousands of hour with an agenda, the cream of the crop you could say, the devs cannot take the most extreme case and work the game soley around it so small changes must be made, yes survivors who play like this can depip every killer but if this was a true reflection of how everyone played there would be no killers below rank 12, there are so many variables in how people play the game.

Yes killers an also depip anyone they wish too, its a vicious cycle, what they seem to be trying to do it have the game in such a state where the chases and interactive for both sides and games last a longer.

iceman2kx

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

The depip squad is an exception. How often do you run across elite SWF groups? It doesn't matter if there's mandatory additional objectives, an elite SWF is still going to wreck a killer. Nerfing survivors based on an elite group is totally going to ruin the game for average/solo survivors.

On the flipside, you could also do the same as killer right? Equip the best add-ons and offerings. You could camp and tunnel easily and call yourself a "depip killer". The average killer doesn't play that hard though.

During the last double BP event I accidentially ranked up to rank 1 again by playing too much (I dont even know why you can rank up that far in a few days lol). I was genrushed so many times by said SWF that are "the exception" that I stopped playing DBD on the last BP day and actually deranked again.
Until they buff the low tier killers I like to play or introduce a viable killer I enjoy playing, I will continue hovering below red ranks.

If you dont balance the game aroudn high lvl gameplay, then you are simply ruining the game for killers at high lvl. And if solo survivors dont play well enough to compete with said SWF, well then they simply shouldnt be at rank 1.

Either that or introduce a SWF game mode, because apparently you agree with the power difference of SWF and solo

There's certain things I think can be addressed that impact the game-play negatively for killer. I don't believe making extra mandatory objectives for survivors is the way to do it though. Like I stated earlier, this event brings a nice little relief to gens for the killer which is perfect IMO, I understand you disagree with that.

As far as deranking goes, do you not think survivors do the same thing? The ranking system makes no sense in this game, so you'll either be playing rank 1 against boosted survivors or rank 10 against de-pipped survivors. So you're still playing against good survivors. Not to mention, as a low tier killer you still get SWFs with red rank survivors in them. So, IMO rank is irrelevant in this game. Rank needs to be revamped honestly.

As far as SWFs go, I let it quit bothering me a long time ago. If that's all you pay attention when creating a lobby, it's gonna drive you crazy. The bottom line is, you don't know how good a survivor SWF will be. Garbage survivors in a SWF will still be garbage survivors. I've played with solo survivors that I could of swore were SWF but weren't. Not to mention, SWF groups tend to have a different play style than solo survivors (more altruistic, less pressure on gens). They can almost be predictable at times. There's a yin and yang for everything.

Justicar

I wonder if simply giving 2x(or 3x or 4x) the BP for sabotaging hooks and totems would be enough to make it so that survivors spend more time on those activities. Imagine having 10 totems throughout the map, and each 1 gives 1500 bloodpoints (or 2500 for hex totems). I imagine a lot of survivors would spend quite a bit more time on them. It may also push Small Game into the meta, though.

ThirdSealOPplzNerf

I have literally waited 19 minutes for a lobby in rank 1 and I get a lobby finally just for them to gen rush and end the game under 4 minutes fix gen rush or I'll never play this game again after I'm done farming my last 3 vials.

fcc2014

Doing the objective isn't gen-rushing it is the same when a killer "camps" and "tunnels" they are doing their objective.

Master

@twistedmonkey said:

@Master said:
Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

Not really as to start with the games were a lot easier for killer with every survivor trying to get vials, think about why they stopped allowing them to keep harvesting them? it comes down to seeing what happens when not all but 1,2,3 or 4 people doing a second objective affects the game also.

The depip squad was a while ago, think about what they have introduced or changed since then to make chases shorter and killer more powerful, bamboozle, bitter murmur, tinkerer, spirit fury, haunting grounds to name a few, the only real ones used prior to these were NOED, Nurses, BBQ and MYC.

The depip squad also was a group of people each with thousands of hour with an agenda, the cream of the crop you could say, the devs cannot take the most extreme case and work the game soley around it so small changes must be made, yes survivors who play like this can depip every killer but if this was a true reflection of how everyone played there would be no killers below rank 12, there are so many variables in how people play the game.

Yes killers an also depip anyone they wish too, its a vicious cycle, what they seem to be trying to do it have the game in such a state where the chases and interactive for both sides and games last a longer.

The depip squad consisted of three killer mains and only one survivor main. I am pretty sure that if 4 survivor mains with the same experience would gruop up and do sth similar, the results would even be more devastating.

Considering that the depip squad powered the gates in 3 minutes in their fastest game, I dont see how the changes that happened so far would affect this number effectively. Sure loops have been reduced and been made less safe, but I believe that the result would be the same.

Regarding your perks: Bamboozle, well once they notice it, tell yuor mates and switch the loop ( drop godpallet). Sure, it will reduce the effective time of a pallet but gens pop fast enough to drop god pallets earlier etc

bitter murmur has no effect in such games, same as tinkerer

Spirit fury, just drop pallets earlier (will probably result in one hit through a pallet during the whole game, if any)
Haunting ground has no effect either because the depip squad ignores totems.

Master

@iceman2kx said:

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
I think this event is a good example of what can be done to improve game play. It gives the killer just the right amount of time to make up for a couple mistakes and not be under so much pressure. Giving the survivor additional objectives in trials not only relieves pressure on gens (needed) but also gives survivors a nice little boost to BPs (also needed). I hope something like this is permanently implemented eventually because it benefits everyone.

Then if survivors want to ignore the additional objective and just hit gens only, they still have that option.

But thats exactly the problem. Survivors can simply ignore secondary objectives (like hex totems for example) and just hammer out the gens like crazy. Thats what the depip squad was trying to prove with their experiment.

The depip squad is an exception. How often do you run across elite SWF groups? It doesn't matter if there's mandatory additional objectives, an elite SWF is still going to wreck a killer. Nerfing survivors based on an elite group is totally going to ruin the game for average/solo survivors.

On the flipside, you could also do the same as killer right? Equip the best add-ons and offerings. You could camp and tunnel easily and call yourself a "depip killer". The average killer doesn't play that hard though.

During the last double BP event I accidentially ranked up to rank 1 again by playing too much (I dont even know why you can rank up that far in a few days lol). I was genrushed so many times by said SWF that are "the exception" that I stopped playing DBD on the last BP day and actually deranked again.
Until they buff the low tier killers I like to play or introduce a viable killer I enjoy playing, I will continue hovering below red ranks.

If you dont balance the game aroudn high lvl gameplay, then you are simply ruining the game for killers at high lvl. And if solo survivors dont play well enough to compete with said SWF, well then they simply shouldnt be at rank 1.

Either that or introduce a SWF game mode, because apparently you agree with the power difference of SWF and solo

There's certain things I think can be addressed that impact the game-play negatively for killer. I don't believe making extra mandatory objectives for survivors is the way to do it though. Like I stated earlier, this event brings a nice little relief to gens for the killer which is perfect IMO, I understand you disagree with that.

As far as deranking goes, do you not think survivors do the same thing? The ranking system makes no sense in this game, so you'll either be playing rank 1 against boosted survivors or rank 10 against de-pipped survivors. So you're still playing against good survivors. Not to mention, as a low tier killer you still get SWFs with red rank survivors in them. So, IMO rank is irrelevant in this game. Rank needs to be revamped honestly.

As far as SWFs go, I let it quit bothering me a long time ago. If that's all you pay attention when creating a lobby, it's gonna drive you crazy. The bottom line is, you don't know how good a survivor SWF will be. Garbage survivors in a SWF will still be garbage survivors. I've played with solo survivors that I could of swore were SWF but weren't. Not to mention, SWF groups tend to have a different play style than solo survivors (more altruistic, less pressure on gens). They can almost be predictable at times. There's a yin and yang for everything.

Of course survivors derank too, the fogstreamer jendenise being a prominent example here and the devs even support this.

Doesnt change the fact that the chance to get these absurd games is way lower on lower ranks. I can deal with SWF that only include one or two red ranks. As long as there is a weak part, I will be fine. And yes rank needs a revamp desperately, but the devs show no intention changing anything.

Currently I handle it this way that I simply stay on lower ranks and deal with anything the survivors throw at me. If I face a squad of derankers, I will simply DC, but luckily that happens rather rarely.

Master

@fcc2014 said:
Doing the objective isn't gen-rushing it is the same when a killer "camps" and "tunnels" they are doing their objective.

Thats literally the definition of genrushing, just like tunneling and camping have precise definitions too.
Sure its nothing "bannable" or "toxic", but its a fact that the game turns into a real mess if players try to play optimally (check out the depip squad)

Thats why the game desperately needs changes, and if you look at the clip I posted, the devs are very well aware of this problem.

Now my question is, do they ignore this problem and accept the situation or are they planing to change stuff?

Blueberry

There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

twistedmonkey

Master said:

@twistedmonkey said:

@Master said:
Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

Not really as to start with the games were a lot easier for killer with every survivor trying to get vials, think about why they stopped allowing them to keep harvesting them? it comes down to seeing what happens when not all but 1,2,3 or 4 people doing a second objective affects the game also.

The depip squad was a while ago, think about what they have introduced or changed since then to make chases shorter and killer more powerful, bamboozle, bitter murmur, tinkerer, spirit fury, haunting grounds to name a few, the only real ones used prior to these were NOED, Nurses, BBQ and MYC.

The depip squad also was a group of people each with thousands of hour with an agenda, the cream of the crop you could say, the devs cannot take the most extreme case and work the game soley around it so small changes must be made, yes survivors who play like this can depip every killer but if this was a true reflection of how everyone played there would be no killers below rank 12, there are so many variables in how people play the game.

Yes killers an also depip anyone they wish too, its a vicious cycle, what they seem to be trying to do it have the game in such a state where the chases and interactive for both sides and games last a longer.

The depip squad consisted of three killer mains and only one survivor main. I am pretty sure that if 4 survivor mains with the same experience would gruop up and do sth similar, the results would even be more devastating.

Considering that the depip squad powered the gates in 3 minutes in their fastest game, I dont see how the changes that happened so far would affect this number effectively. Sure loops have been reduced and been made less safe, but I believe that the result would be the same.

Regarding your perks: Bamboozle, well once they notice it, tell yuor mates and switch the loop ( drop godpallet). Sure, it will reduce the effective time of a pallet but gens pop fast enough to drop god pallets earlier etc

bitter murmur has no effect in such games, same as tinkerer

Spirit fury, just drop pallets earlier (will probably result in one hit through a pallet during the whole game, if any)
Haunting ground has no effect either because the depip squad ignores totems.

You are still missing the point, the depip may be killer mains most of the time but they do also play a hell of a lot of survivor, marth has over 4000 hours in the game and has played survivor on stream lots of times.

It's also 4 survivors doing nothing but gens and getting out, the game is not just about escaping, you get very little bloodpoints for playing this way and that also does not take into account it was a 4 man SWF and the last figure we heard of was around 8% of games had this setup.

Now take the depip squad powering gens in 3 mins, with the changes and perks you each drop of a pallet quicker means less loops so you down people quicker, as I said small changes need to happen first which they are doing, you negate the fact that it's still an extreme case, totems get done with ruin up, devour hope, NOED etc so haunting grounds does get activated in most matches, the lure of bloodpoints alone is enough to cleanse it, the emblem system was also brought in afterwards so survivor had to do certain actions to pip.

Most players are out to have fun, not simply sit pressing m1 on a gen all the time it's mundane and like I already said the depip squad is no where near the norm if it was there would be no killers at the red ranks complaining they can't get lobbies right now.

For balance they can't take the one extreme for 8% of the user base and apply it to everyone, this is not a higly competative game for most people it's a grind game where the most important aspect is actually bloodpoints, balance is always somewhere in the middle in these types of games from the best to worst case just like 2 die 2 escape is where the game should be.

Sinner

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

Blueberry

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

Sinner

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

Blueberry

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Sinner

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Dude, you had no more breathing room after BBQ, survivors had to adapt to this new perk, but they never adapted by doing the counter cause it didn't work effectively against the top tier killers at the time (nurse with fatigue bug and billy) so they rushed gens instead, than everyone followed the rank 1 trend. Same with looping. Before only toxic survivors looped. Those of us who weren't toxic used to even body block looping survivors to help the killer. Than after bbq we started to loop as well. Even ######### truetalent started looping, lol.

Blueberry

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Dude, you had no more breathing room after BBQ, survivors had to adapt to this new perk, but they never adapted by doing the counter cause it didn't work effectively against the top tier killers at the time (nurse with fatigue bug and billy) so they rushed gens instead, than everyone followed the rank 1 trend. Same with looping. Before only toxic survivors looped. Those of us who weren't toxic used to even body block looping survivors to help the killer. Than after bbq we started to loop as well.

The key issue here is that survivors never adapted, that is the issue. Instead they came here complaining about BBQ. I don't have any issues with BBQ when I play survivor and that's not bragging, it's a simple thing to do.

Sinner

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Dude, you had no more breathing room after BBQ, survivors had to adapt to this new perk, but they never adapted by doing the counter cause it didn't work effectively against the top tier killers at the time (nurse with fatigue bug and billy) so they rushed gens instead, than everyone followed the rank 1 trend. Same with looping. Before only toxic survivors looped. Those of us who weren't toxic used to even body block looping survivors to help the killer. Than after bbq we started to loop as well.

The key issue here is that survivors never adapted, that is the issue. Instead they came here complaining about BBQ. I don't have any issues with BBQ when I play survivor and that's not bragging, it's a simple thing to do.

Doesn't matter if you have an issue or not. I have no issue either, but if my teammates die constantly in 2 seconds cause of BBQ, that affects my game as well, since I need a team to survive.

zq_aux

I think a fun way they can change the game is by removing one of the exit gates/more gens required to finish/something else to slow down the "main objective" and adding a third method of escaping. Maybe something like adding more totems and if all totems are broken you can do some other objective to try to escape the entity's game. (Very very loose ideas here, just to get people thinking). Or something like Friday the 13th has where you can kill Jason, maybe some way to take down the killer. Perhaps buffing the basement to make it more appealing to killers and somehow being able to kill the killer down there, idk. I don't think we have to stick just to how the base game is played, because it's possible the base design is inherently flawed, and maybe another design would work better. Idk, let me know your guys thoughts on this! 

Blueberry

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Dude, you had no more breathing room after BBQ, survivors had to adapt to this new perk, but they never adapted by doing the counter cause it didn't work effectively against the top tier killers at the time (nurse with fatigue bug and billy) so they rushed gens instead, than everyone followed the rank 1 trend. Same with looping. Before only toxic survivors looped. Those of us who weren't toxic used to even body block looping survivors to help the killer. Than after bbq we started to loop as well.

The key issue here is that survivors never adapted, that is the issue. Instead they came here complaining about BBQ. I don't have any issues with BBQ when I play survivor and that's not bragging, it's a simple thing to do.

Doesn't matter if you have an issue or not. I have no issue either, but if my teammates die constantly in 2 seconds cause of BBQ, that affects my game as well, since I need a team to survive.

That to mean is an issue with the ranking system. They've made it too easy to rank up and there's a lot of rank 1's that shouldn't be. If they were truly deserving of that rank, BBQ wouldn't be causing them an issue. I think your complaints should be at the ranking system from what you're telling me, not BBQ.

Master

@twistedmonkey said:
Master said:

@twistedmonkey said:

 @Master said:

Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

Not really as to start with the games were a lot easier for killer with every survivor trying to get vials, think about why they stopped allowing them to keep harvesting them? it comes down to seeing what happens when not all but 1,2,3 or 4 people doing a second objective affects the game also.

The depip squad was a while ago, think about what they have introduced or changed since then to make chases shorter and killer more powerful, bamboozle, bitter murmur, tinkerer, spirit fury, haunting grounds to name a few, the only real ones used prior to these were NOED, Nurses, BBQ and MYC.

The depip squad also was a group of people each with thousands of hour with an agenda, the cream of the crop you could say, the devs cannot take the most extreme case and work the game soley around it so small changes must be made, yes survivors who play like this can depip every killer but if this was a true reflection of how everyone played there would be no killers below rank 12, there are so many variables in how people play the game.

Yes killers an also depip anyone they wish too, its a vicious cycle, what they seem to be trying to do it have the game in such a state where the chases and interactive for both sides and games last a longer.

The depip squad consisted of three killer mains and only one survivor main. I am pretty sure that if 4 survivor mains with the same experience would gruop up and do sth similar, the results would even be more devastating.

Considering that the depip squad powered the gates in 3 minutes in their fastest game, I dont see how the changes that happened so far would affect this number effectively. Sure loops have been reduced and been made less safe, but I believe that the result would be the same.

Regarding your perks: Bamboozle, well once they notice it, tell yuor mates and switch the loop ( drop godpallet). Sure, it will reduce the effective time of a pallet but gens pop fast enough to drop god pallets earlier etc

bitter murmur has no effect in such games, same as tinkerer

Spirit fury, just drop pallets earlier (will probably result in one hit through a pallet during the whole game, if any)

Haunting ground has no effect either because the depip squad ignores totems.

You are still missing the point, the depip may be killer mains most of the time but they do also play a hell of a lot of survivor, marth has over 4000 hours in the game and has played survivor on stream lots of times.

It's also 4 survivors doing nothing but gens and getting out, the game is not just about escaping, you get very little bloodpoints for playing this way and that also does not take into account it was a 4 man SWF and the last figure we heard of was around 8% of games had this setup.

Now take the depip squad powering gens in 3 mins, with the changes and perks you each drop of a pallet quicker means less loops so you down people quicker, as I said small changes need to happen first which they are doing, you negate the fact that it's still an extreme case, totems get done with ruin up, devour hope, NOED etc so haunting grounds does get activated in most matches, the lure of bloodpoints alone is enough to cleanse it, the emblem system was also brought in afterwards so survivor had to do certain actions to pip.

Most players are out to have fun, not simply sit pressing m1 on a gen all the time it's mundane and like I already said the depip squad is no where near the norm if it was there would be no killers at the red ranks complaining they can't get lobbies right now.

For balance they can't take the one extreme for 8% of the user base and apply it to everyone, this is not a higly competative game for most people it's a grind game where the most important aspect is actually bloodpoints, balance is always somewhere in the middle in these types of games from the best to worst case just like 2 die 2 escape is where the game should be.

No, you are missing the point.
Sure, especially a killer main will always play some survivor too because killer is just a lot more frustrating/drainign to play than relaxing as a survivor. That doesnt change the fact that there are way more experienced/better survivors out there than marth and he says so too.

Yes its 4 survivors doing gens and geting out, its what they are supposed to do actually (not clicking and tbagging the killer)

The SWF figure was from last year, now you can add a bit on those numbers and then you have to realize that there are a lot more SWF on higher ranks.

Sure, looping is not the same as before, but genrushing is exactly the same as before. Nothing has changed and if the survivors actually try, the result will be the same (dont tell me that a survivor can only loop for a few seconds nowadays)

Its fine if you want to play casually and play worse intentionally, but please refrain from doing statements about high lvl gameplay then.

What are killers supposed to do in such games?
Personally I derank now.... lul what an amazing design

MyNamePete

@Master said:
About 7 months ago we got this reaction from the devs regarding the depip squad experiment:
https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyEagerAlfalfa4Head

Nothing has happened regarding generator time so far. Is there something coming, do you have any plans or do you guys from BHVR intend to leave the situation as it is?

iTs cALleD hEx:rUiN

Master

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

Yes, the community has changed. They actually started to learn and improve (that has nothing to do with BBQ btw).
The only thing that remained is the 80 sec gen mechanic which is the problem here

Sinner

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:

@Sinner said:

@Blueberry said:
There seems to be a big misunderstanding here with "gen rushing". No one is saying survivors shouldn't be rushing gens, that is literally them just doing their objective. Stop arguing semantics and let's focus on what we actually mean by gen rushing which is that the gens simply shouldn't be able to be done as fast as they currently are, not that survivors shouldn't be trying to.

Those of us who have been playing for longer know that gen rushing wasn't a thing before. Survivors would take their time, search a chest, cleanse a totem, help a fellow survivor in a chase. Now, as soon as they spawn they're going straight to gens, delaying saves, delaying healing to prioritize gens. This started happening after they added the most op perk in the game: BBQ and Chilli.

That is just simply not true, it was happening back then. This has been an issue from the beginning. Link your steam, I wanna see what you consider longer.

1798 hours, started playing just after Hag release

I've got over 2,000 hours, I was here quite a ways before hag. I stand by what I said.

Dude, you had no more breathing room after BBQ, survivors had to adapt to this new perk, but they never adapted by doing the counter cause it didn't work effectively against the top tier killers at the time (nurse with fatigue bug and billy) so they rushed gens instead, than everyone followed the rank 1 trend. Same with looping. Before only toxic survivors looped. Those of us who weren't toxic used to even body block looping survivors to help the killer. Than after bbq we started to loop as well.

The key issue here is that survivors never adapted, that is the issue. Instead they came here complaining about BBQ. I don't have any issues with BBQ when I play survivor and that's not bragging, it's a simple thing to do.

Doesn't matter if you have an issue or not. I have no issue either, but if my teammates die constantly in 2 seconds cause of BBQ, that affects my game as well, since I need a team to survive.

That to mean is an issue with the ranking system. They've made it too easy to rank up and there's a lot of rank 1's that shouldn't be. If they were truly deserving of that rank, BBQ wouldn't be causing them an issue. I think your complaints should be at the ranking system from what you're telling me, not BBQ.

I gave up on them sorting the ranking system. It might even be impossible.

Master

@MyNamePete said:

@Master said:
About 7 months ago we got this reaction from the devs regarding the depip squad experiment:
https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyEagerAlfalfa4Head

Nothing has happened regarding generator time so far. Is there something coming, do you have any plans or do you guys from BHVR intend to leave the situation as it is?

iTs cALleD hEx:rUiN

Ruin was already a thing during the depip squad experiment. You can just power through it (assuming you didnt spawn on it lul)

ad19970

I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Nos37

What if the secondary objective was to seal a fog vent?

• The trial starts extra foggy.
• The fog chokes the gens, slowing how fast they can be repaired, but better obscures Survivor movement.
• The Survivors can find and close Fog Vents to lessen the fog and return the generator repair speed back to normal.

This way the secondary objective is tied to the main objective, yet the Survivors still have a choice: slowly grind out the main objective with lots of cover from the fog, or use the secondary objective to speed up the main objective at the cost of less cover from the fog.

Master

@Nos37 said:
What if the secondary objective was to seal a fog vent?

• The trial starts foggy.
• The fog slows how fast generators can be done, but better obscures Survivor movement.
• The Survivors can find and close Fog Vents to lessen the fog and speed up the generator repair.

Now, the secondary objective is tied to the main objective, yet the Survivors still have a choice: slowly grind out gens with lots of cover from the fog, or close vents to speed up gen repairs with less cover.

That would be a perfect example

SIX

This isn't a competitive game, people play this from time to time, with their friends/or solo for fun, not actually caring if it's balanced for higher ranks since they won't even bother with it, casual players

Casual players 90%
Pro/Vets or whatever 10%

I also wouldn't give 2 flying ######### about the 10% since they're not the majority, they're not the one's who keep the game alive and bringing income

That's how it is

Master

@SIX said:
This isn't a competitive game, people play this from time to time, with their friends/or solo for fun, not actually caring if it's balanced for higher ranks since they won't even bother with it, casual players

Casual players 90%
Pro/Vets or whatever 10%

I also wouldn't give 2 flying ######### about the 10% since they're not the majority, they're not the one's who keep the game alive and bringing income

That's how it is

Then dont cry if "vets" derank in order to have fun games and "bully" you

SIX

@Master said:

@SIX said:
This isn't a competitive game, people play this from time to time, with their friends/or solo for fun, not actually caring if it's balanced for higher ranks since they won't even bother with it, casual players

Casual players 90%
Pro/Vets or whatever 10%

I also wouldn't give 2 flying ######### about the 10% since they're not the majority, they're not the one's who keep the game alive and bringing income

That's how it is

Then dont cry if "vets" derank in order to have fun games and "bully" you

don't worry, i can handle it

Blueberry

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

fcc2014

@SIX said:
This isn't a competitive game, people play this from time to time, with their friends/or solo for fun, not actually caring if it's balanced for higher ranks since they won't even bother with it, casual players

Casual players 90%
Pro/Vets or whatever 10%

I also wouldn't give 2 flying ######### about the 10% since they're not the majority, they're not the one's who keep the game alive and bringing income

That's how it is

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ad19970

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Blueberry

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

ad19970

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

ad19970

@WhateverIGuess said:
Are you out of your mind? Adressing actual problems of the game? NICE MEME, I think I'd rather nerf vaulting even more because you know, that was a huge problem apparently.

Was that really a nerf though? I mean just personally I barely notice a difference. I feel like they just made that to make slow and fast vaulting more conistent, since there were certain windows survivors could normally just slow vault through, yet occasionally they were able to fast vault through them which wasn't supposed to happen I guess. Not sure about that though.

Blueberry

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

ad19970

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

Blueberry

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

Wolf74

@Master said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyEagerAlfalfa4Head

This is the alltime low of game development.

twistedmonkey

Master said:

@twistedmonkey said:
Master said:

.

No, you are missing the point.
Sure, especially a killer main will always play some survivor too because killer is just a lot more frustrating/drainign to play than relaxing as a survivor. That doesnt change the fact that there are way more experienced/better survivors out there than marth and he says so too.

Yes its 4 survivors doing gens and geting out, its what they are supposed to do actually (not clicking and tbagging the killer)

The SWF figure was from last year, now you can add a bit on those numbers and then you have to realize that there are a lot more SWF on higher ranks.

Sure, looping is not the same as before, but genrushing is exactly the same as before. Nothing has changed and if the survivors actually try, the result will be the same (dont tell me that a survivor can only loop for a few seconds nowadays)

Its fine if you want to play casually and play worse intentionally, but please refrain from doing statements about high lvl gameplay then.

What are killers supposed to do in such games?
Personally I derank now.... lul what an amazing design

For one I never said there were not better survivors but Marth is in no way a bad survivor, the others also are really good survivors in their own right, there are also better killers who don't agree with Marth does that make his opinion invalid? No but it's not THE be and end of all opinions.

Who said anything about clicking and tbagging? That's just trying to deflect from the fact survivors don't just do gens, there are totems, there are chests, doing a gen, chases, saving, healing, only swf has the advantage of always knowing where the killer is at all times so they can work on a gen without also having to be aware.

Yes gens are the main objective and that is why they can be done fast but it's not like the depip scenario is the norm by any stretch.

Your now stretching what I said, I said the devs are making small steps to try and make the game more enjoyable for both sides, to address what needs done, they have been actively making changes but they can't simply make it so survivirs go down in 10 seconds as it's not fun, they also risk being camped as no matter what some killers will still do that.

I also never mentioned I play worse intentionally, how in any way is doing totems, opening chests and saving, trying different perk loadouts intentionally doing worse? Dbd is not an esports competative game, if you think this way i actually feel a bit sorry for you as you cant find the game much fun, please refrain from ever telling people what they should write about, your opinion is not THE opinion its just one of many, I will comment on what ever lvl I play at thank you.

If you choosing to derank why do you want to play at lower ranks? Maybe since survivors play around more? If it's such a competative game why chose to not play in the more competative zone?

The problem with high ranks is not just how fast gens go it's also the way some killers choose to play, you have survivors with a few thousand hours also deranking as they just want to have fun, both sides make the high ranks what they are not just one, remember every action has a reaction.

I am not sure if you were here when every hardcore killer main told survivors to do gens when the camping discussion reared almost every day, you know what the response was? Do gens! Kind of funny how the term "gen rush" never actually came about untill after that.

So in the end the depip squad is how the game is always played and there is of course no issue in the lower ranks of killers finding games and having longer lobby times than survivors even before the event, seems correct right enough.

akbays35

@Master said:

@twistedmonkey said:
Apparently the survivor pustules in the event are a way for them to tell the impact of adding a new objective to slow the game down alon wih the slight healing nerf designed to slow the survivors down a bit more.

Anything that has changed in the past few month from pallets, vaulting mechanic, making the survivor take more time to do something, aura and one hit down perks are all designed to try and help killers get hooks faster to compensate for how fast survivors sit on gens.

Its a hard one to balance as you have those that do totems and those who dont, side objectives change the speed quite a lot, they also dont want to have survivors downed easier just to be camped and probably why its taking longer, while its a valid strategy its not fun and thats the name of the game.

Well if they introduced the flowers with the intent to gather any data regarding how secondary objectives could work out, then they failed miserably by not tieing them into the main objective.

The healing times are completely irrelevant in a genrush game. Aura and one hit perks have been part of the game already during the depip squad experiment.

Well regarding camping, they already started punishing it with the latest patch

They may keep the pustules or a form of them as a cosmetic grinding gimmick, that way survivors have to pick between winning or swag and this might weed out good and bad survivors better to help balance the game.

ad19970

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:

@Blueberry said:

@ad19970 said:
I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.