Slugging:
Isnt it interesting, that of all the perks/abilities on Killers, there is only Knock Out that directly relates to this crucial option?
As to how crucial it is (and understated/underepresented), you can win a Trial by chaining slugs over and over, without ever even once using the traditional Hook mechanic, nor Moris.
Additional to that (but to which their is no perk/ability on Killers to capitalize on), slugged Survivors bleed out and die eventually.
And ofc, that slugging has essentially the same function as hooking, in that it prevents that slugged Survivor from doing anything else, and obligating another Survivor to find and pick them up, away from them also doing gens.
What are your views/experiences with slugging, and why is it, that such a core and crucial Killer capacity has no abilities/perks related to it, except Knock Out?
Comments
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Because it isn't really fun for Killers or Survivors.
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Do you really want more killer perks that incentive killers to slug rather than hook survivors?
Also you are forgetting perks like Infectious Fright which let killers know other survivors are nearby helps with slugging decisions. Hex: Third Seal making all other survivors blind is functionally the same thing as Knock Out hiding the aura.
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How is it not fun?
How is hooking more fun for Killers or Survivors?
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I know infectious fright is technically a tracking perk, but in my experience ita generally used for slugging. I imagine there aren't more perks for it simply because being slugged is "unfun" for survivors.
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Because you don't sit on the hook for 4 minutes with no way to speed up that process.
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No, because I specifically have used Infectious Fright with Knock Out specifically to chain slugging, and found it quite refreshing to not have to deal with the Hook mechanic at all.
When they are slugged, they cant do anything except crawl around, and need to be found and picked up by another Survivor, taking them off gen duties, same as hooking.
Thanks for the tip of Third Seal, but I dont hold Hexes in much regard. 4 eyes/hands easily destroy it before they have lasting effect.
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It is very hard to 4 man slug, I've been doing it these days to test stuff and mess up with mmr and you need knockout and infectious and pray they are not swf so they can call each others position. Imo slugging is more fun than going for hooks, games get much more active, chases everywhere and survivor spend less time on gens, i don't get the guy above that says it's boring, it actually keeps people active all the time, the fun part of the game.
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Yes, Infectious Fright works well with slugging, but it doesnt actually involve/affect slugging mechanics in the way that only Knock out does.
Infectious Fright is a detection perk, it doesnt actually affect slugging mechanics at all.
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My personal view is that Slugging (while annoying) in some instances it does make sense to do it.
Generally I tend to hate excessive slugging because some players choose to do it at the beginning of the match and that just isn’t fun IMO. Yes, fun. Because as much as it is very easy to just choose to leave someone on the ground, nobody should spend that much time on the ground.
If they were to add more slugging perks, I’d argue that they should buff survivors’ anti slugging perks because they aren’t very good atm (aside from Unbreakable).
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So who is that not "fun" for?
Do you find being hooked to me fun? :D
The result is the same for Killer, in that the slugged cant do gens or any other actions except crawl or heal, and obligates another Survivor to stop doing other things and xome pick them up (latest before they bleed to death).
Sure, Killer takes a loss in BPs for not hooking, but if you have 3 slugged, its better than having 3 hooked, cos they cant get off the ground (without specific perk) but can potentially jump off the hook.
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You understood one of my core points.
For a Killer, just chaining slugs can be more fun than the Hook mechanics, and as I pointed out, if you slug enough, frequently, they bleed out on the ground and die, just as they would on a hook, and it also forces Survivors to come save them so you dont have to chase them around.
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Does it really matter to Killer whether a Survivor is Hooked or Slugged? Sure Hook has its minigame, but Hooks also can also by that by jumped off by RNG, whereas a slugged Survivor cant get up from RNG.
So arguably, slugging is better, except that you dont get BPs or perk tokens for Hooks if you have such related slotted.
The rough net effect is the same, in that they cant do anything until someone comes help them, and those that do, are pressured thus off gens.
Its almost impossible to have 3 survivors hooked at once, but its far more possible to have 3 survivors slugged, and with tracking perks, you can find the 4th, and just reslug whomever they pick up.
Plus whilst slugged, they literally are dying via bleeding, whereas Hook mechanic just looks at what hook stage they are in.
So slugging kills Survivors eventually, same as hooking.
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Ummm because we ain't in penthouse and nobody wants to lay on floor whole match?
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Why would you lay on the floor longer than you would hanging from a hook?
Surely in either case, someone will come save you, or your fate is the same?
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Because you slug people? Anyhow do as you wish just don't come here complaining when people dc because they didn't come to play floor is lava
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Where did I complain about people DC?
If they DC, thats their choice, screws their team, and increases my win ratio.
Do you grasp, that before every hook (unless you grab them without 2 hits) ALL Survivors are slugged?
Its a key, core mechanic.
2 hits, and you are slugged. Period. Its systemic.
The essential difference here at issue, is just not hooking them afterwards, and why should a Killer bother to do so instead of leaving them slugged, disabled from gens or other actions, to bleed out, and also require another Survivor to pick them up, whom you can then reslug or hit the saviour to slug them later.
In many senses, its better to slug, than hook.
And related to that, why is there only one perk (and no Killer abilities) except Knock Out, that are specific to DYING/slugged Survivors, though its a seminal, core mechanic?
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You forgot Infectious Fright, Third Seal and Deerstalker
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I didnt "forget" them.
They just dont actually affect slugging itself.
Only Knock Out does that.
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Infectious Fright affects OTHERS in Terror Radius of whom is put into dying state.
Third Seal is specific to a M1 hit.
Deerstalker is just a detection of dying Survivors.
None of those actually affect the slugged themself, or the slugging mechanic, except Knock Out.
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There is still RNG involved with Slugging because as part of the meta, many survivors opt to bring Unbreakable, or one of them could bring syringe, WGLF, etc.
Hooking survivors kills them faster without any trade off. So if you leave someone on the ground, yes you will pressure others to pick up but also if they are successful at it you’ve just reset their hook. Meanwhile 2 gens were finished because you were trying to apply pressure via a slug.
Slugging when not done excessively promotes healthy fun teamwork. I do it sometimes and sometimes it’s just not worth it. I never slug for the 4K because I’m not that invested. I’d much rather have fun chases and get my hooks in.
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RNG=Random Number Generation.
The perks and items Survivors bring are not random. They are detemined. The chance to unhook oneself, is RNG (even with perk).
Yes, hooking has advantage of progression in phases to elimination of that Survivor, and is "faster" than slugging, but slugging nonetheless, as you agree, facilitates the same function of disabling that Survivor and forcing another to save them, and at length, causes death by bleeding.
That then draws back to my OP, regarding how/why such a crucial core mechanic is so little represented in Killer abilities/perks to capitalize on specific to slugging.
And also the concept that slugging is a way to sidestep the Hook mechanic.
Pragmatically also, as I positted, it is better and easier to have 3 Survivors slugged, than it is to have 3 Survivors hooked, is it not?
Key to that, is 1st stage hooked can jump off without perks, but slugged cant get up without one.
Id much prefer to create a result where I have 2-3 slugged, than the (almost impossible to maintain) of 2-3 hooked.
And as I said and bears repeating, slugged Survivors are closer to dying every second they bleed out.
For a definitive 4K by hook you need ~12 hooks. But for 4K by slugging, you can potentially achieve it with only 4 slugs.
Id also argue, that slugging creates more pressure than hooking.
Same as how generally even if you slot Pop or Overcharge, kicking gens is time away from actually chasing/hitting survivors, so also is carrying Survivors to Hooks a net loss in time, rather than just slugging them.
The playstyle and perks involved are different, and requires highly aggressive approach, but the payoff is that you sidestep the burdensome Hook mechanic, snd playing on Survivors terms, and can take control of the game yourself.
Survivors also are "trained" to expect hooking mindset, and perked for that. They are not prepared for instead aggressive slugging.
Post edited by Rhoska on0 -
There's no perks for that because that's bs and it's gonna stay that way slugging over and over leads to nowhere but 20 minutes + of pointless boring gameplay than usual normall match if u do that that's ur choice but stop acting like it's strategy when when's it's nothing but dic* move
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Whats pointless about it, and why would it take 20mins? When/if you have 3 slugged, there is only one to deal with.
For a Killer it makes no difference in terms of having to rechase a risen slug, to having to rechase an unhooked survivor.
Mathematically, if you consider all the time it takes to carry each Survivor multiple times to a Hook, that is time you could instead spend aggressing the unslugged ones and those that try to pick up the ones you already put down.
The hook mechanic is burdensome in comparison.
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Feel free to advocate for more perks that cater towards slugging. Just don't complain when survivors bring Unbreakable and Soul-guard and want other perks that help us not get slugged also.
Have a nice day.
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Then how is slugging unfun for the killer. You just said why it is for survivor but not for killer
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Slugging someone over and over until they bleed out is dic* move and definitely not any kind of strategy hooks are there for a reason and they will remain there with purpose slugging over and over waiting for them to bleed out is just toxic and idk if u think u discovered hot water or something but it ain't it but as I said u keep u do you
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Unbreakable only works once, and if I can force you to slot it, thats one less perk I need to worry about for something else.
Soul Guard is more complex, but in essence, you have to be unslugged first anyways for it to activate.
And regarding those both, they are already in the game, and Ill just slug you again, and again, as many times as it takes.
The purpose in this, is to sidestep the burdensome Hook mechanic, and also Survivor perks related to that, which many slot.
Also the purpose of this post, is to remind Killers that Hooking, though its been "programmed" into us behaviorally, is not the only way to play.
Slugging can be far more efficient, and most Survivors expecting the traditional Hook play, will be taken aback when the Killer doesnt play the way they expect.
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"Toxic" "dic*move"
No, perfectly valid and fair.
Remember and realize, that every Survivor that gets hooked (unless grabbed, which is exceedingly rare and a Survivor massive failure), was ALREADY slugged, each time, before each hook.
You were a slug before each hook.
If you got hooked three times, you were a slug, first, three times.
The only difference in this, is you remain a slug, and Killer doesnt waste time to hook you.
Killers dont have to, or even need to, slug you three times to hook you three times.
They can just slug you once, without the hook, and that can be enough.
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Slug doesn't mean that? Slug means basically leaving survs on purpose on floor going after others there's difference between slugged and downed....hooking ppl is main mechanic of game not that u just lose points but also zero hooks and it's gonna take a while until u get everyone down or they bleed out game would go for an hour for no reason slugging has no point unless it's endgame ofc it just promotes toxicity and nobody wants to lay on floor for most of the match u said u would down them and than they get picked up and u slugg them back to ground you don't see anything wrong with that? U actually think that's valid and fair?
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Yes, its entirely valid and fair.
As I explained, every hook (except from a rare grab) is preceeded by you being a slug.
The mechanic is intrgral to the game, and arguably more so than thereafter hooking, which is optional and additive (for certain benefits, such as BP and hook stages), but certainly not mandatory.
As to terminology of "slugging", its literally the comparison to the Survivor as a slug that crawls slowly on its belly, leaving a trace of bodily fluids, and cant do anything else.
As to how long bleeding out takes, thats also an integral part of the game, and a core mechanic, and occurs when you are a slug.
Killers have four means to eliminate Survivors. By hook, by bleeding to death, by Mori or by Entity when game expires after gates are open.
All are valid.
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Alright if it's fair and valid do so nobody else seems to agree with that here but sure everyone's wrong only you're right good luck with games
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Like I said, don't complain when survivors advocate as well for more anti-slugging perks.
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What makes you think I would complain about your complaints? :D
Slugging is a real and core mechanic of this game. Are you now here already complaining about that?
And Survivors already have Unbreakable as a native non-DLC perk, so what do you have to complain about?
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There's cases that warrant slugging but either way no one likes it but it's necessary in some cases in order to win a game or secure a kill.
- A team that likes to bodyblock and running flashlights, more effective to slug them if they become oppressive.
- Down to 2-1 gens and lacking pressure, hook one, slug another who comes off the gen to attempt rescue.
- It's Endgame and Survivors have 99'ed the gate, Slug one, open the gate and either other survivors leave or you draw them into you while you're on top of the slug with timer counting down.
- Survivors are on top of each other after you down one in a chase, slug him and chase the other to force another survivor off a gen to heal the slug.
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Yes, those are circumstantial and important as part of a Killers options. But as I said, each hook is preceeded by a slugging anyways. Slugging happens all the time, we just are "used" to thinking that a hooking follows.
Or, you can just flat out ignore the burden of hooking in play and perks, and just aggressively focus on slugging everything.
Try it. Forget hooks and gens. Just knock down and slug all that is moving and focus on only that.
Particularly good, is that you dont have to worry about BT anymore, or then stunning you off your shoulder, nor waste time carrying them to hooks with obnoxious flashlights in your face or hook destroyers, or body blocks to the hook.
When all 4 are slugged, you can hook them at your leisure, if you wish, but I recommend keeping an eye on each that you do, cos they can (due to another mechanic that slugs dont have) jump off if they get a lucky RNG roll out of 3.
Post edited by Rhoska on0 -
Bubba is the king of slugging, and from him comes Knock Out. Billy also.
But Ive been preferring slug-play with Wraith.
Perks vary in selection (Knock Out ofc, and mostly detection perks to chain slugs), but it helps to have Wraiths mobility and lack of Terror radius to pressure across the map and to rapidly return to re-slug those that are picked up, unnannounced.
Forget hooks and gens entirely.
Just focus on slugging everything that moves upright.
It plays havoc on Survivors that expect hook based play, and the time you save to exert pressure from not carrying to hooks starts adding up/paying out, as does their bleeding.
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Hey, if you find slugging not unfun to go against, that's fine, that's your opinion. But the general opinion is that being slugged is just not fun. Of course the occasional slug is not a problem for most people, it's the 3 or 4 man slugs before hooking a survivor.
I think it's unfun in particular because it never really progresses the killers objective, or it only does that in an incredibly slow way, but it constantly means survivors have no breathing time, healing a slugged survivor takes a bit unlike unhooking a survivor, and in general a slug fest can make matches last very long, and just become boring because you are just constantly trying to pick each other up, and every once and a while, repair a bit of a gen. Meanwhile the chase gameplay can fall a bit short in comparison, which is arguably the most fun part about DBD.
But yeah, the reason that their are barely any perks aiding this playstyle is that most people do not enjoy going against a slugging killer.
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I’d be happy to see more perks revolving around the slugging mechanic.
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Bubba is such a chad. Slugging, facecamping... Is there anything he can't do?All the survivors come to his basement, that is all I can say. Certified lady killer.
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Great way to shift the focus from gens to altruism. Definitely makes a match more engaging than hooks just as long as the team provides altruism.
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For the first time in a long time, I haven’t seen much slugging in the game lately. Idk if I’m just lucky, or if killers are seeing more counters to it and have dropped that method.
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1) Slugging doesnt necessarily make a longer match than triple hooking every Survivor does. Slugging inversely can infact make for a quicker match than that. In some senses also, the longer the match, the better for the Killer. Regardless, match length doesnt really matter, and they vary a great deal for many reasons.
2) "Unfunness" is subjective. And whats "fun" for Killers and Survivors are different, also whether they are necessary or not.
3) Slugging progresses Killer objective, in that it forces altruism (away from Gens etc) like does hooking, stops one player from actions (as does hooking) but also bleeds them.
Slugging also has the advantage, that unless perked for it, Survivors cant get up on their own, whereas a hooked survivor gets 3 chances in first hook to do so, regardless of perks.
Slugging also means you dont have to use time to carry them to hook, nor deal with harassment on the way there, or various other hook related perks.
4) As to lack of perks related to slugging on Killers, I think its simply an oversight regarding an often overlooked core mechanic.
Fact is, that its actually SO core, that every single hook is preceeded by a slugging (unless rarely grabbed). Slugging thus happens all the time in every match, but people (Killer and Survivor) often dont think anything more of it, as we are "programmed" for Killer to hook them asap, and Survivors "expect" that also, whereas that next step doesnt have to follow, and Killer can just leave them where they lie, or also drop them to slug where they want them to be.
Post edited by Rhoska on2 -
In practice, slugging isn't a realistic way to win games, as unless you have a fully stacked DH or NOED, you can easily teamwork around it (where you don't have counter-perks). It's mostly used in situations where you can potentially down multiple targets, to avoid certain second chance perks, as a counter to sabo/bad hook spawns or to BM.
What?
No it doesn't.
'Slugging' in common usage just refers to leaving a survivor 'downed' for a certain period of time, as there is a possibility of another down/saving a gen or to avoid certain perks.
What you are referring to is mostly just being BM, or being silly.
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« Slugs win games, hooks don’t »
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There you list some good uses of slugging, and in addition to those are the ones I have listed earlier throughout this thread.
Point being that slugging has many aspects to it that many players, especially Killers overlook, as we are "programmed" to focus on hooking more, and also Survivors "expect" it.
Also as my point in OP, that Devs also may be overlooking this core mechanic. (Such as its really only Knock Out in Killer perks that applies to it specificially, and no abilities are specific to slugging either).
TLDR: We are so used to "slugging" leading to hooks, that we take it fot granted somewhat without thinking/planning/perking to capitalize on it.
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That's literally what I said dude
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Guarantee me your teammates won't run away and I won't slug u. U can't? Then there's nothing to complain about and it has nothing to do with fun.
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You know that the devs are working on this situation of punishing sluggers in the mmr. (Which was a mistake).
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In my honest opinion, I'd rather be slugged for a while than hooked as it keeps me in the game a little longer, meaning I have the opportunity to get more points before getting hooked and killed or bleeding out.
On the inverse side, there's plenty of opportunity for "fair" slugging as a killer: survivor unhooks in your face? Slug that poor schmuck who just got pulled off and chase the unhooker.
Need someone out of play while you deal with another player (Tinkerer notification, Killer Instinct triggering, etc.)? Put that lad on the ground and deal with the possibility of someone picking him back up--sometimes you get back in time for a two-for one deal!
Want to ensure survivors don't use Unbreakable at a really inconvenient time for you? Knock them down for a hot minute every once and a while. The possibilities are endless!
Slugging everyone at five gens immediately s'bit of a [BAD WORD] move, though. Fair enough.
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Yes, actually.
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Why play a game if it isn't fun?
Notice how I didn't say to get rid of slugging.
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