What do you define as fair?
I was giving some thought to what do I personally find fair and unfair in dbd when it comes to the chase. I play survivor mostly and occasionally killer ( I can't stand the first person view) so I have a bit of input on both sides.
So let me start by saying that I'm HOPING for a good discussion with good points and no disrespect towards anyone who is more to one side than the other. If you have a counter argument to make then please let's not insult one another there are many other posts on these forums for that.
I know that gens kind of go hand in hand with the chase but just remove gens from the discussion. When it comes to the chase what do you find unfair to the killer? Or survivors?
I'm really interested in knowing how others feel on the topic.
Comments
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When I play as killer I always try to play for 12 hooks (or 11 & let one go) if I accidentally take down the just unhooked survivor because their "saviour" used them as a shield to get away themselves I leave said survivor on the ground & chase the "savior" so the unhooked can get picked back up again.
I believe from a killer point of view this is about as fair as I can get.
What is unfair (or would be unfair if I felt this way & I don't) would be expecting all killers to play the same way I do.
From the survivor side I think it's fair for teammates to do whatever it takes (within the rules & limits of the game) to try & help their teammates get out along with them.
Killers complain a lot about blocking hooks (I rarely do unless their on death hook), flashlights (that I don't use) 99 gates (which has got me killee almost as many times as saved) & a whole host of things the survivors are supposed to be a TEAM, yes I play 100% solo & yes a lot of teammates play only for themselves but it's unfair or at the very least unrealistic for killers not to expect a team of 4 to work together for the good of the team & try to get everyone out.
As for chases I don't particularly see anything as unfair some buildings and loops seem a bit survivor sided but other areas of the map mean you've pretty much had it within 20 seconds or so, survivors try to escape chases killers try to catch them, knowing when to commit or drop a chase is crucial (though even then it can be hard to let go sometimes) but other than map range I wouldn't say any chase was unfair
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What is fair? The opposite of DbD.
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Every single chase is fair, in my honest opinion.
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I mean in a chaise there are not really any rules in my opinion. I think the chaise is pretty alright, the thing that is much worse is the time after the chaise, especially if you did well and the killer punishes you by camping or tunneling.
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Whats fair? Killers doing what they can to get kills.
Whats fair? Survivors doing everything they can to escape
Whats not fair? Bitching about it. Noed this. Boon totem that. Spirit this. Pallet that. Boring this. Etc.
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I think every killer in the game currently besides nurse is fair. Nurse ignores many mechanics the game has in place and essentially plays by her own rules
In terms of survivor map rng can lead to busted set ups but for the most part it’s okay
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The problem isn't the 4 working together the problem is the strength of when the 4 work together. The sum of the 4 is greater than their individual potential. A coordinated team has no weak point to explore. Even if individually they are weak in chases if they are coordinated they can do the gens and saves and killer will still feel overwhelmed. Teamplay trumps skill in low to mid levels and skilled teamplay is unbeatable. Best you get is a camp/tunnel kill and hope you get a second survivor before they leave. It's why the 2 escape 2 die mentality existes. Killer is already supposed to fail half of the objective. You can say oh but 2 survivors failed 100% of their objective, which is Escaping, that's 50% more of a failure than killer's objective, and technically you're right but you helped make sure 2 escaped while killer actually failed to kill/sacrifice 50% of the survivors. Your efforts saved someone while killer is a solo unit he either succeeds or fails and it's all on him.
I'll gladly Sacrifice myself if i'm on death hook so someone else doesn't get killed on first or second Hook, so someone can use DS if they get tunneled, so someone can get time to use Unbreakable, etc. Getting Sacrificed doesn't mean you didn't play as a Team or that you aren't a good Survivor. But thx to MMR getting Sacrificed to save someone means killer was better in the 1v1 against you thereofre you lose MMR while killer gains MMR vs if i escaped i'd win the 1v1 and i'd get MMR instead. Since the N-SBMM system doesn't really reflect skill and BHVR admited that this means being a good teamate is useless, Self Preservation at all costs matters more, if you care about MMR.
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The MMR in it's current design is terrible. I've been in games where I've done 3 gens alone then went on to run the killer long enough for my team to complete the last 2 gens only to be caught, hooked and left for dead while my teammates escaped. In the MMR's design they were good players and I wasn't so their MMR increases while mine decreases.
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That's a fair point about good / very good swf teamates & in reflection that probably is inherently unfair to the killer.
I'm 100% solo & personally when I see teamwork pay off I find it rewarding it doesn't happen a whole lot these days!
From the killer perspective I feel i'm a decent (not great) killer 90% play killers most consider B tier or below (Trapper Main) & I don't have an issue with survivors teaming up swf or otherwise.
Of course I don't particularly play for a 4k if I get them all great if not I generally move on.
I was happy to see MMR I had positive results in all the test runs, but I don't believe the kill / escapes is even remotely good enough to determine skill or much else.
As someone with a pretty high escape rate (most of the time) I haven't noticed much of a difference as a survivor but my killers are a mess especially ones I've virtually never used or only use for a daily challenge like Billy.
Totally ignoring 99% of what happened in a game & only taking the final seconds of a survivors fate into consideration escape or die is definitely an unfair system for both sides.
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Fair is when everyone has equal chance to play and engage a trial. Though the difference between first down in 30sec or 3 Gen makes both sides sweat alot.
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Nothing.
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Personally, fair would be if the time it took to get a down on average was more synced with the time it takes to finish a gen. Doing one hook out of 12 when 3 gens pop in the same time is objectively not fair.
However, I am not sure I want it changed. That is just what fair would actually look like if that was the goal.
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I disagree with the MMR tests having had good results, all of my experiences in the tests were dreadful, especially the second test, i had so high of an MMR on Wraith, right after his changes, that during the test i went from rank 1 to rank 3 in about 2 hours, i couldn't do anything i lost every match with 1 or 2 hooks if i could get that much.
And they actually lied, after the first test they said counting only kills and escaped didn't work out because it accounted for nothing that had happened but alas in reality they never changed anything. They have changed how much MMR you gain or lose and adjusted the max and min MMR and ran tests with those new parameters but the way they actually determined MMR never changed.
The reason teamplay is rare nowadays in SoloQ is because self preservation is more important, because people want to have High MMR cause that's the "Skill" measure so Escaping by any means becomes the norm, which means gen rushing and escaping, which forces killers to camp and tunnel more to minimize MMR losses, cause nobody has fun beating up bad opponents, getting that 1 or 2 kills is basicly diminishing your deranking or balancing things out so that you stay were you were. It's only natural for all this to happen, people want and are driven to try and get as high MMR as possible for game progression reasons and for ego reasons, so when the system only counts the end results then anything is fair game to achieve those results.
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Fairness in DbD would be for BHVR to be honest. More than the game being fair in matches i wish BHVR would be fair with the consumers. BHVR being the way it is is why i will definetly leave DbD when Evil Dead comes out. I'll try my luck with Evil Dead and if it turns out not good then so be it but 2021 is the end of DbD for me. I'm tired of the way BHVR does things, i'm tired of their unwillingness to admit they are wrong, unwillingness to change how they communicate with consumers, their unwillingness to rethink what they do and how they do it.
Maps beind disabled left and right, content coming out with tons of bugs. Balance changes nobody agress with for the most part. Performance being horrible. Game Mechanics constantly breaking. MMR. It's just too much and has exhausted me over 3 years.
I've been playing videogames for over 20 years, i can go back and revisit Tekken 3, MGS, Final Fantasy, GT2, etc, games from a time where fixing bugs meant having a whole new game being developed cause you couldn't download updates and those games work better and are more Balanced and FUN, even if they have problems, than a game made almost 20 years later. And those games were brilliant, fascinating and you can still go back and play them. I have sunk YEARS into Metal Gear as a franchise, i have sunk thousands of hours into Bloodborne and i will sink thousands more and maybe years more into those games cause they are good games.
IF BHVR started being honest then DbD would improve.
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As a killer :
- no camping
- no tunneling
- preferably everyone P2 before first death
But it's impossible in the current state.
As a survivor :
- unique perks
- unique items
Would change many things.
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It seems unfair to me that survivors have a smaller 'capsule' size than killers do. The difference seems negligible, but if both sides are able to hug what they're looping perfectly the killer's additional movement speed is negated by the survivors smaller collision area. Well, if I remember correctly - it came up in a conversation on here years ago. Which means that you can't catch a survivor around a loop unless you get bloodlust, or they make a mistake as you try to mindgame one another.
What makes it unfair to me is that the survivor can run the killer around multiple times, and then drop the pallet at the very end, and there's nothing the killer can do other than chase people in these circumstances and force the pallet drop. There are survivors that are really good at doing this and it makes the game so god damned boring because you pretty much know exactly what is going to happen at each pallet. Then, when they run out of pallets or make a mistake? Dead hard, and it starts all over again.
If we had the same capsule size, then it wouldn't be so easy to loop the killer for multiple gens by simply running around something until dropping a pallet.
I don't think it's fair that survivors don't have any cooldowns on their fast vaults. Every killer has been put on a leash, or had one hand tied behind their back in the past few years, but not much has been done to survivors. Like, they changed hillbilly because people were revving too much.. so why don't they punish survivors who just run the same loops/vaults over and over again? It doesn't make sense to apply reasoning to one side but not the other. Well, unless the changes are motivated by something other than balance.
I'm not sure how these changes would be addressed, but I do wish they would make survivors have to consider their own resources more. Currently, all they have to worry about is getting gens done, distributing hooks throughout their team, and not dropping pallets unless necessary. Everything else is just dicking around and having fun.
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Not DBD that's for sure
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