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Why everyone hates mmr
Let's be clear. For those people who play as killer and survivor I think the mmr sucks because it's damn stupid, and I know it's irritates those people and me too. I hate how people dc over the loading screen and I have to restart Dead By Daylight which is bad because I might get a matchmaking ban for 2 or 13 mins and then survivors just send you the most saltiest messages because you were healing somebody and a killer was just distracted and found us and downed the survivor. and that's the reason why I hate the mmr. Simple is that!
Comments
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It doesn’t measure teamwork and hooks as skill and the meta was to stale and small for MMR.
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I don't mind system how it works, I think it's actually way better than emblem system.
I have been theory crafting ideas about how it could work instead, but killer system is actually best they could do, if they want it to work for every killer same, which it should.
I would try different version for survivors tho, but it's still better than emblem system even for them.
What I don't like is how boring it can be in high MMR. I fixed it by having few killers where I sometimes lose on purpose, so I can just chill there. If I wanna tryhard, then I have Blight and Oni for that, because they can handle it...
But I think that is problem of balance, not SBMM. SBMM just shows it, it can be fixed by buffing soloQ, so you don't have only SWF in high MMR and by buffing weak perks / weak killers, so there is just more variety in high MMR.
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SBMM will kill the game. This ######### doesn't belong in a party game. Make a ranked mode if you're going to put this stupid ######### in the game. BHVR doesn't give a ######### about the fans.
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It massively deter players from playing low tier killers as they will face slightly less difficult opponents then there highest mmr killer. For context if you main huntress or nurse. You play really well and hit high mmr your nemsis or trapper will be slightly below your huntress or nurse. The gap between huntress and nurse vs trapper and nemsis is absurd.
As a result high mmr survivors see a select few killers contributing to a gamestate where excellent players face off against the same crap invariably leaving both veteran killer and survivor players miserable.
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Really sucks being matched with people who likely have a similar play style to you. Gets boring fast, doesn't it?
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At the start all the tryhards rushed to increase their mmr score. So high mmr was/is quite sweaty. Since mmr does not reset, eventually high mmr will fill with more casuals and will go back to the way rank 1 once was.
The issue that needs solving is hackers.
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Meanwhile, I have a habit of 2-hooking everyone and then just messing around whenever I play killer, and while that gave me a solid middle-of-the-road rank in the old system that roughly matched me against players my skill level (I got occasional god squads, sure, but who didn't), I'm pretty sure the new system just thinks I'm completely terrible at the game.
I'm enjoying not having to sweat at all and being allowed to dick around and take things easy - I'm comfortable playing casual games, and I've stopped running Ruin and started running less meta perks and that's fun - but it's pretty oof-worthy when I get matched with total newbies that don't know what they're doing. Which is about one in every five games. I try to dial it back and act like a tutorial match for those players (heck, yesterday I had one where I had to call it quits in the middle of the game and turn passive because all four players got too scared and just hid together in a corner of the map), but I really shouldn't be going against them and I wish there was a little more recognition of score or emblems in the apparent formula. Same with survivor, because escaping isn't exactly the sole arbitrator of how well you performed that game.
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Maybe stop smurfing and stomping newbies. I'm sure they'd prefer to play against someone their own skill level.
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The fact there is only one mmr number is boring.
Bhvr should hired me when they had the chance, because.
My design would abandon this elo nonsense, which is fundamentally no different than the previous ranking match ups. That's because it still relies on competing only two sets of numbers for a matchup, one score for the killer and a score (or average of scores) for the survivor. Very similar to the previous way matching up used to work, only with more numbers (think us customary vs imperial: using millimeters is more precise than fractional inches, but both are still linear means of measurement that can be read on the same measuring tape)
What this game needs is to pay me money to fully design two sets of ratings (survivor and killer) that measure off of five scores. Four of the scores are based on the average emblem points you earn (0 to 8000). The fifth score is the average of the first four scores ("true" MMR rating")
My system would match solo survivors that have very high objective scores with survivors that have very high boldness scores. this system would also match Swf groups that average a very high survival score (above 5000) matched with killers that have a very high sacrifice score.
Other nuances include matching survivors with a very low survival score with survivors that have a very high altruism score.
Buncha other nuances I could list off here, but I'd like to be paid for my work. Of course, bhvr could always do the work themselves, which involves work. You know, the thing that most people try not to do these days.
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That's the thing - I wasn't smurfing in the old ranking system. I had a rank that was even with my skill level because I'd still get solid emblems each match unless my opponents actually wrecked me, which happened often enough. I haven't changed my playstyle since then. That's just how I enjoy the game... you'd be better off arguing that I'm playing the wrong game. It's always been a 'I want everyone to have a good time' thing for me; I have more fun letting people go after a hard-fought game than I do killing them. Honestly I feel kind of bad whenever I do sacrifice someone, especially if they're wiggling 'no' on the floor or if they gave me a good fun chase. Pretty much the only time I don't feel bad killing a survivor is when they were BMing me or screwing over their team in some fashion.
Am I playing the game wrong? Probably. Do people like playing against me? Evidently yes, so is it a problem? But, again, it is a problem when suddenly I'm playing with wet-behind-the-ears newbies.
Point is, as I said earlier, MMR is flawed and it's not taking enough factors into account with its matchmaking.
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I don't know how anyone can say this is better than the emblem system when it is basically just the unbroken emblem that we are being rated on now. The fact that the emblem system took looping(evader) and actually bothering to do gens(lightbringer) made it far better than a system which just looks at whether or not you escape. It's ridiculous that the guy who did all the work and died at the end is considered unskilled while the immersed noob who left him to die on hook is considered the higher skilled player.
Still, having a skill rating at all when the devs keep the game in a seriously broken state for much of the year is stupid in the first place.
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Honestly the old system was better, there's no skill to be rated with the way it works you either escaped or you didn't and it doesn't matter how you got there , you could be the worst player in the lobby hiding all game doing nothing and end up getting hatch or just abandoning your team the second the gates get powered even though you've not been doing anything to contribute but yet mmr says you escaped and moves you up the bracket. I feel like they just throw anyone together for quick matches the skill of my opponents varies too much per game I could destroy a swf with my nurse and then get a bunch of babies immediately afterwards with only like 40 hours in the game that have no business playing against someone with thousands of hours more and more then 10 ranks above them
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They called it a 99% improvement in matchups, yet they withhold the data
What they have said about the new systen isn't possibly a fact because nobody can prove or disprove it.
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It doesn't measure skill on the survivor side. The best player on the team can often die while the immersed players who are allergic to gens and chases gain MMR because they hid the majority of the game and managed to open a gate. If you aren't factoring in chase time, safe unhooks, etc., then you have a terrible system completely devoid of context.
And it shows on the killer side. My killer games are either the easiest games of my life or the grand finals of BOTB. Because it only grades on escapes, I see sub-200 hr players in the same lobbies as 2000 hr players.
Solo queue has become absolutely unplayable again for me. It was great the first week or two after MMR launched. Then it seems like the immersed teammate assassins managed to string together enough escapes to climb an MMR bracket or two. I get one teammate with my hrs (3000+) and two complete noobs with under 300 who don't know how to play at even an average level. It's a genuinely horrible experience. I only SWF now...when I actually play. I haven't touched the game in almost a week.
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The old system is definitely not better for anyone except for Killers with lot of hours of play.
It constantly threw bad survivors with good survivors and made it simple to get 4ks with Killers because there was always a weak survivor you could take out quickly.
This new system is much much better for survivors. It sucks for Killers who were use to their 4ks.
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While that's true, the new system isn't any better than the old. They're rather similar, tbh
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Why isn't the new system any better? For the majority of players, it gives both the Killer and the 4 survivors a very equal match. How is the worse than the 100 4k win streak Killer games that use to happen.
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Because games get stale, I'm tired of getting no variety in my games.
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The new system is apprarantly solely based on whether or not a survivor escapes through a gate. Sure, it's not the same, but it's similar to the old system which simply accumulated enough emblem points to determine a place in rank, through pips. Not all levels has 5 pips, but for simplicity, let's ignore brown ranks and ranks 1 and 2 pipping systems for a moment.
With enough emblem score you'd gain a pip. Doing at least one gen, safely unhooking once or healing twice, and escaping at least 1 decent chase without getting hit would certainly give you a minimum emblem score for objective, altruism, and boldness. Simply escaping was worth 5000 survival points. All of that accumulates into a -2, -1, +0, +1 or +2 pip score right? This is linear between two points, rank 20 to rank 1 (well, rank 15 to rank 3, but we will get to rank 1/2 in a moment)
You're still counting between X and Y, or rank 20 to rank 1. The new MMR score only gives you the +X if you escape through a gate. Escaping through the hatch is +0 and dying is -Y to your score. It's similar in the regard that the scoring system is linear, moving only between two points on a scale. Let's call everyone's default MMR score 1000. On your very next game, irrespective of what the killers mmr number actually is and how much it affects your score the following fact should be true: If you win, you gain more mmr, which will be above 1000. If you lose, your score will be below 1000. If you hatch, your score remains 1000.
Eventually, you get to this part of the conversation, the rank 1 and rank 2 tier MMRs. Forgive me for not knowing, but I cannot prove if mmr scores can fall below 0. If they can, then most of what I'm saying applies. If mmr scores cannot fall below 0 then that means all of what I'm saying is likely true. Basically, there are some diminishing returns once your score falls too low or too high. If you can't fall below 0, then you hit rock bottom. If your score becomes high enough, your queues become longer: as the game looks for opposing MMRs, eventually the scope widens enough that someone normally outside your range is put into your game. This infers there's a diminishing returns upon victory because the opposing mmr calculation would not net you any gains if you win that trial against an MMR score that is otherwise far below where you should be.
That means top tier MMR is similar to rank 1 and rank 2, because eventually, if you are among the highest mmr scores, you can only lose your mmr scores and won't gain anything irrespective of your win streak. Rank 1/2 either remains the same upon victory or falls down if they don't + pip....and MMR score either remains the same upon victory or it falls down if you don't escape.
Centimeters vs inches, but it's written on the same measuring tape.
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they made an interesting game but they don't know what to do with it. it's like building a car but you can't drive and you won't sell it.
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I don't see why it would matter if you can only go so high or low on MMR. However, judging by results, Matchmaking is definitely putting similar skilled Survivors with similar skilled Killers.
Personally, I've always thought Kills/Escapes was exactly how matchmaking should be based. Every generator you do, every loop you evade a killer, every survivor you rescue leads to one objective, whether you escape or die. Kills/Escapes is basically what the emblem system was trying to do but was failing at accomplishing.
You could do everything perfectly on the emblem system and still die.
The end objective for survivors and killers is kills/escapes and every skill you use during the match build up to that. So it's measuring your skill.
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But the previous system was based on emblem pips not emblem score, that's why it didn't match make very well. The emblem score itself is what match making should be based on. In that regard, the current system is similar to the previous system, because of the linearity and basic conditions required to advance or decline. Eventually, with time, you're going to see matchups similar to what you had before, not exactly the same, but not that much different.
The claim that the current system is based on months worth of data is a farce. The placebo effect stems from the fact that everyone had some kind of match making reset, whether or not it was days or months worth of data. Whether your score used to be 1 inch before and now your score is 2.54 centimeters, you're still being matched up with people that general measure up the same.
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The previous system didn't match make well. This one does.
The developers were on the right track with the original matchmaking system, they just simplified it down even more and now it works much better.
Instead of trying to see if you are doing all the tasks required to escape the match or make a kill, the system now just sees if you escaped a match or made a kill. It's the same system, but functions better because they distilled the essence of what they were trying to accomplish with the emblem system.
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######### teammates way below my skill
If you have a good fundamental understanding of the game but you are just bad you get paired noobs who have 3 hours on the game
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What I'm trying to convey most of all is that the old system didn't measure all those tasks, not with a proper measurement. It equated the score into a pass/neutral/fail system which is what this current system still does. It is very similar and in time it will show itself as such. No, it's not the same, that is true, but you will eventually begin to see similar matchups to the old system.
Because the old system used that type of information that way, it disregarded the actual scores and plays being made. It never calculated your score with your emblem score, it only measured your rank with pips. Basically, escaping is now the only means of earning a pip, which is what you said. That's exactly how the new system is similar to the old system. Both systems disregard the earned scores and both systems will still let immersed clods tier up their mmr. I think if you give it a few more weeks you'll see the similar matchups you had before.
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My argument would be that the new MMR system does measure skill. Sure a Claudette that hides the entire match and does nothing may happen to be the only Survivor that survives. But that is one game, the MMR system isn't based on examples, it's based on averages.
A Claudette that hides every match, is going to cause the her team to not make any escapes, including herself on average. So her MMR is going to keep lowering until it hits rock bottom. MMR doesn't care about one game, it cares about the average in a long line of games. A hiding Claudette insures she is going to die more often than not because she's not contributing anything to the team escaping.
I mean, how many games do you think you can escape if only 3 members of your team is doing anything. Eventually that Claudette will be placed with other survivors that don't do anything. While the other 3 members of her group are making more escapes and increasing in MMR.
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That is not true in the least unfortunately. The old system better matched proper skill levels than the new one.
What they should do is matches based off of the new ranking system.
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I like the system, with 2 big exceptions.
- It needs to be more nuanced on the survivor side of things. Simply escaping at the expense of your team should not be rewarded.
- There needs to be an algorithm to detect people abusing it and endlessly AFKing/suiciding/DCing to drop their MMR to silly levels, to stomp people. This killed SC2.
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It's just unfun.
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That is definitely not true. There were games where I was in matches with level 20 survivors while I was red level. The old matchmaking system was much much worse than this one.
It did benefit killers by allowing them to make easy 4ks though.
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its not only poorly designed, survivor for example are done by escapes, so you can be the one who managed to loop the killer for 3 to 5 gens or the hole match and you are the only who dies but your teammates will go higher cause they escaped even if they didnt even see the killer or just not enough... so its poorly designed.
then for killers is a sweat fest, u never can chill and win, u are forced in order to win to sweat your balls, and that hapens consiotently even if u lose a couple of games in order to make your mmr go down signifitcantly you have to lose A LOT of games... however sometimes you want to use a chill build against a decent team not against a bunch of potatoes cause u are a good killer... but instead you only get the cream of the cream with 4k hs each survivor wich is the definition of antifun in this game... sometimes you want to chill but not playing against useless survivors to make it work, just average, chill a bit between matches not going agaisnt a 4 man every game just because you won some matches.... it really feels like u get punished hard for winning a couple of matches but dont get penalized the same for losing a couple, is like your killer MMR barely changes or very slowly to go down....
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Or you know...
The fact that you have to play high Mmr like it's comp,
So of course people are gunna hate it when you have to play it like that back to back to back, Multiple times a day..
I always was against Mmr, even in dbd... and now it's just shows that it hurts to play this than it does anything else
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Old match making wasn't a problem until it never put anyone back in rank. When I started in 2019 rank reset put you back 10 ranks and all the sweaty tryhards were back in red ranks in a day or two. Then they changed it to put you back usually a single pip out of one color so unless you stopped playing for a couple months there was no way you could get back to a rank of similar skill since the majority of the player pool was blood red regardless of skills. The same will happen and already is starting with SBMM. You get everyone in the same group of people and when the game can't find a match it pulls from a wider net in search of match making making it pointless. At least when I was a green rank killer the sweaty all red teams were so few and far between they didn't bother me that much.
For those complaining about hours played "I have/had lobbies of 100 hours paired with 30k hours played" that happens with swf. You have a person that has played a lot and gets their friend into the game and they, brace yourselves this is a shocker, play together. Wich throws another huge wrench into match making, but that's a whole other discussion.
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Well this is just an updated version of the old matchmaking system. The old matchmaking system used emblems to try and determine if you are doing everything to try and escape or make kills. The new one is based on escapes/kills, it just gets rid of the unnecessary middle stuff.
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My issue isn't so much "new is worse than old" it's, with no meaningful reset they'll end up with the same issues over and over and over again.
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I like the Idea of MMR. I don't like how they did it.
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I see no improvement. I started dying in almost every match. I see that the system rewards killers by giving them weaker survivors if they lose. Survivors who die from match to match cannot count on a weaker killer.
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