The Thanataphobia Problem
Thanataphobia
Their courage fades in the face of their undeniable mortality
All Survivors receive penalties to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor.
1 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor: 6 % reduced action speed.
2 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 9 % reduced action speed.
3 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 12 % reduced action speed.
4 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 15 % reduced action speed.
Its obviously bad. But in my opinion it cant be buffed. If it were buffed to have better percentages it would completely undermine Dying Light depending on what the percentages are added by because the debuff would be easier to achieve then tunneling your obsession to death.. If each percentage was given an extra 8-9% Which in my opinion would be the border line percentage to make this perk good it would make dying light useless. Thanataphobia needs a complete change to what it is in my opinion to be a viable perk eithout a buff to make Dying Light useless.
Comments
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Good breakdown and sadly there's so many perks like this that if you buff one something similar either becomes absolutely worthless or brokenly op.
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@powerbats said:
Good breakdown and sadly there's so many perks like this that if you buff one something similar either becomes absolutely worthless or brokenly op.Thanks ive been trying to figure out an effective way to show how this perk isnt good and cant be changed
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They could do something like, reduce the max stacks from 4 to 2, buff the numbers a tiny bit, and then give it another effect.
Otherwise I don’t see them doing much.
I highly doubt they’ll find some sweet spot for the percentages, where it’s very good, but not oppressive.0 -
@ModernFable said:
They could do something like, reduce the max stacks from 4 to 2, buff the numbers a tiny bit, and then give it another effect.Otherwise I don’t see them doing much.
I highly doubt they’ll find some sweet spot for the percentages, where it’s very good, but not oppressive.
Yeah % always make it super difficult to fix since you run into does it become op with a small change and also duplicative/multiplicative.
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I've kind of wondered if it would work better like Remember Me where it just tacks on 2 seconds for healing and 8 seconds extra for gens and stacks 4 times, but healing to full health reduces each charge.
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Could make it so you get a Token on Thanatophobia everytime you hook someone for the first time.
And you'll get [VALUE]% per Token.Yes, that would make it work just like B&C. But...
- Giving B&C that instead would just needlessly buff it.
- That way just works well. Disencourages camping too, so Survivors shouldn't cry.
It would actually make Thanatophobia the complete opposite of Dying Light if you were to give 6.25% per hooked Survivor (adding it up to 25% once you hooked all 4), as Dying Light gives 25% for hooking 1 specific Survivor to death.
So why do i say the Tokens have to be gained by hooks?
Well, besides the overall good concept of hooking multiple Survivors to gain the full benefit introduced by B&C, to me there's another reason: When someone gets hooked, you're notified by this unnatural noise (besides the screaming) and you're given this weird black circle of where it happened.
If it were me, and i wasn't terrified of dying yet, i would be then.3 -
I think that we can rework this perk without it being stronger than Dying Light. Basically here's how I would do this rework:Global said:Thanataphobia
Their courage fades in the face of their undeniable mortality
All Survivors receive penalties to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor.
1 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor: 4 % reduced action speed.
2 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 7 % reduced action speed.
3 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 10 % reduced action speed.
4 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 13 % reduced action speed.Its obviously bad. But in my opinion it cant be buffed. If it were buffed to have better percentages it would completely undermine Dying Light depending on what the percentages are added by because the debuff would be easier to achieve then tunneling your obsession to death.. If each percentage was given an extra 8-9% Which in my opinion would be the border line percentage to make this perk good it would make dying light useless. Thanataphobia needs a complete change to what it is in my opinion to be a viable perk eithout a buff to make Dying Light useless.
Thanataphobia:
As survivors see their mortality, they will begin to lose hope in escaping. Whenever you injured a survivor, cause the mangled status effect and all survivors will suffer a 10/15/20% speed penalty to all actions until that survivor is healed to the healthy state. Once the survivor is healed to the healthy state, this perk will go into a 60/50/40 second cool down. Cannot cause the mangled status effect whenever this perk is on cool down or if it's already in effect.1 -
Why did you write only the the lvl 1 stats of the perk?
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@Nickenzie said:
Global said:Thanataphobia
Their courage fades in the face of their undeniable mortality
All Survivors receive penalties to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor.
1 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor: 4 % reduced action speed.
2 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 7 % reduced action speed.
3 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 10 % reduced action speed.
4 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 13 % reduced action speed.
Its obviously bad. But in my opinion it cant be buffed. If it were buffed to have better percentages it would completely undermine Dying Light depending on what the percentages are added by because the debuff would be easier to achieve then tunneling your obsession to death.. If each percentage was given an extra 8-9% Which in my opinion would be the border line percentage to make this perk good it would make dying light useless. Thanataphobia needs a complete change to what it is in my opinion to be a viable perk eithout a buff to make Dying Light useless.
I think that we can rework this perk without it being stronger than Dying Light. Basically here's how I would do this rework:
Thanataphobia:
As survivors see their mortality, they will begin to lose hope in escaping. Whenever you injured a survivor, cause the mangled status effect and all survivors will suffer a 10/15/20% speed penalty to all actions until that survivor is healed to the healthy state. Once the survivor is healed to the healthy state, this perk will go into a 60/50/40 second cool down. Cannot cause the mangled status effect whenever this perk is on cool down or if it's already in effect.I think the debuff would be enough without the extra magled effect but that could be good.
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Debuff would be fine until healed but an extra effect might make it too op. It should also work by you only get more power by hitting/hooking away from the hook.
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Thanataphobia:powerbats said:Debuff would be fine until healed but an extra effect might make it too op. It should also work by you only get more power by hitting/hooking away from the hook.
As survivors see their mortality, they will begin to lose their hope in escaping. Whenever you injured a survivor, all survivors will suffer a 10/15/20% speed penalty to all actions until that survivor is healed to the healthy state. Once that survivor is healed to the healthy state or eliminated from the trial, this perk will go into a 60/50/40 second cool down.
I think that this is the perfect rework since it adds a reasonable penalty while having a simple counter.
Generators:
80 (Base generator repair time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 100 second generator repair times. So, basically a 25% increase in generator repair time for a 20% decrease in speed.
Healing:
16 (Base healing time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 20 second heal time. So, again, basiclly a 25% increase in the heal time for a 20% decrease in speed.
What do you think @powerbats @Global?0 -
Question does it stack with dying light? Like U kill the target for 25 and say u hurt another would it be 29%?
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@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:Debuff would be fine until healed but an extra effect might make it too op. It should also work by you only get more power by hitting/hooking away from the hook.
Thanataphobia:
As survivors see their mortality, they will begin to lose their hope in escaping. Whenever you injured a survivor, all survivors will suffer a 10/15/20% speed penalty to all actions until that survivor is healed to the healthy state. Once that survivor is healed to the healthy state or eliminated from the trial, this perk will go into a 60/50/40 second cool down.I think that this is the perfect rework since it adds a reasonable penalty while having a simple counter.
Generators:
80 (Base generator repair time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 100 second generator repair times. So, basically a 25% increase in generator repair time for a 20% decrease in speed.Healing:
16 (Base healing time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 20 second heal time. So, again, basiclly a 25% increase in the heal time for a 20% decrease in speed.What do you think @powerbats @Global?
That sounds intriguing but then what happens if you throw Mangled in there and or say Coultrophobia etc?
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Why do you care about Dying Light?
That's a useless perk anyway.
Thanataphobia needs a bigger buff to make a difference and Dying Light needs a complete overhaul. By the time it works, there's only 1 gen left to do.1 -
They can consider to make it work on dead people as well. So its like a baby version of Dying Light
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@Nickenzie said:
powerbats said:Debuff would be fine until healed but an extra effect might make it too op. It should also work by you only get more power by hitting/hooking away from the hook.
Thanataphobia:
As survivors see their mortality, they will begin to lose their hope in escaping. Whenever you injured a survivor, all survivors will suffer a 10/15/20% speed penalty to all actions until that survivor is healed to the healthy state. Once that survivor is healed to the healthy state or eliminated from the trial, this perk will go into a 60/50/40 second cool down.I think that this is the perfect rework since it adds a reasonable penalty while having a simple counter.
Generators:
80 (Base generator repair time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 100 second generator repair times. So, basically a 25% increase in generator repair time for a 20% decrease in speed.Healing:
16 (Base healing time) divided by 1c/s - 0.2c/s = 20 second heal time. So, again, basiclly a 25% increase in the heal time for a 20% decrease in speed.What do you think @powerbats @Global?
Yea i would rather have a perk like that instead of the thanataphobia we got xD
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@Tsulan said:
Why do you care about Dying Light?
That's a useless perk anyway.
Thanataphobia needs a bigger buff to make a difference and Dying Light needs a complete overhaul. By the time it works, there's only 1 gen left to do.Since they are weak i want them to be buffed but if only thanataphobia is buffed instead of changing dying light than it would make a bad perk even more useless causing the team to spend more time to change it instead of dealing with glitches and exploits.
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Just a random idea:
Starts at 0% and then every time someone is injured it goes up 1% but that figure never goes down even when they heal.It has a capped value say 7% / 10% / 12%
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My thoughts exactly. I think it would be better if it was just a flat rate for any survivor being injured/hooked/dying. Trying to maintain four is not realistically going to happen, and even if it does, there's nothing you can do to keep it that way. The percentage isn't worth the effort of trying to keep it up, but it it was higher and worth keeping up, it would be overpowered and have things spiral wildly out of control.
So I think the best way to go about it is to just give a flat 15% penalty for any survivor being injured, hooked, or dying. Additional survivors don't slow it down any more, they're just a buffer for if the other survivor heals up. That way you're more easily able to apply the effects, but the survivors are also able to get rid of it at a reasonable speed. Not quite as much as dying light, but it's much easier to activate.
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While I totally agree with the post, the funny part is that Dying Light is already useless lol. Unless you're running a mori, the obsession is an idiot, or not running DS (yeah that's gonna happen), you just aren't getting that guy killed in any reasonable time to where it really even matters at that point. This also disregards that you definitely just made that guys game not fun whatsoever and never let him leave your sight. It's just a bad perk already before even thinking about touching Thanata.
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@Global said:
ThanataphobiaTheir courage fades in the face of their undeniable mortality
All Survivors receive penalties to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor.
1 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor: 6 % reduced action speed.
2 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 9 % reduced action speed.
3 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 12 % reduced action speed.
4 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 15 % reduced action speed.Its obviously bad. But in my opinion it cant be buffed. If it were buffed to have better percentages it would completely undermine Dying Light depending on what the percentages are added by because the debuff would be easier to achieve then tunneling your obsession to death.. If each percentage was given an extra 8-9% Which in my opinion would be the border line percentage to make this perk good it would make dying light useless. Thanataphobia needs a complete change to what it is in my opinion to be a viable perk eithout a buff to make Dying Light useless.
people will most likely hate this idea for a buff, make it a token perk, every time a survivor is hit by the killer you gain a token, for every token the survivors get a 1/2/3% regression rate
Hate about this in 3...2....1 and GO!
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It should give a higher bonus. 15%? Show me a survivor meta perk that gives 15% bonus. Even the 33% healing bonus of BK isn't used often. All support perks (prove thyself, BK, Leader, etc.) need a huge buff.Peanits said:My thoughts exactly. I think it would be better if it was just a flat rate for any survivor being injured/hooked/dying. Trying to maintain four is not realistically going to happen, and even if it does, there's nothing you can do to keep it that way. The percentage isn't worth the effort of trying to keep it up, but it it was higher and worth keeping up, it would be overpowered and have things spiral wildly out of control.
So I think the best way to go about it is to just give a flat 15% penalty for any survivor being injured, hooked, or dying. Additional survivors don't slow it down any more, they're just a buffer for if the other survivor heals up. That way you're more easily able to apply the effects, but the survivors are also able to get rid of it at a reasonable speed. Not quite as much as dying light, but it's much easier to activate.
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I'm not sure if this is a fair comparison though. At least in my opinion Dying Light is an atrocious perk. I mean why add a perk that actually encourages to tunnel? What the hell?
In my opinion Thanatophobia needs a buff, just increase the percantages for every survivor by 4% and I believe the perk could be good. And rework Dying Light because right now it's just a terrible perk.
I would just love some alternatives to Hex Ruin0 -
@Global said:
ThanataphobiaTheir courage fades in the face of their undeniable mortality
All Survivors receive penalties to repair, healing and sabotage speeds for each Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor.
1 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivor: 6 % reduced action speed.
2 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 9 % reduced action speed.
3 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 12 % reduced action speed.
4 Injured, Dying or hooked Survivors: 15 % reduced action speed.Its obviously bad. But in my opinion it cant be buffed. If it were buffed to have better percentages it would completely undermine Dying Light depending on what the percentages are added by because the debuff would be easier to achieve then tunneling your obsession to death.. If each percentage was given an extra 8-9% Which in my opinion would be the border line percentage to make this perk good it would make dying light useless. Thanataphobia needs a complete change to what it is in my opinion to be a viable perk eithout a buff to make Dying Light useless.
Its easy-peasy to fix, just add a BP multiplier to it and BAM instant pick-able perk!
In all honesty I agree I can't think of a way to tweak this perk without simply redoing it.1 -
@powerbats said:
Good breakdown and sadly there's so many perks like this that if you buff one something similar either becomes absolutely worthless or brokenly op.Both your reasoning are true.
Why not just rework both ?
Even better, a complete overhaul for this kind of problems ?
Knowing this game's history, it's probably too much to ask sadly.
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Let's be honest - most of game's perks and mechanics need a rework. Instead of introducing new killers our game developers would need a solid few months to fix everything, which they won't do because people may lose interest, meaning less money and players0
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15% reduction for one survivor being injured is basically just a free 15%. Odds are, for the vast majority of the trial, at LEAST one survivor will be hooked or injured. Stacked with Sloppy Butcher it'll be silly. Like 24 seconds to heal someone else or 45ish seconds to self heal? That is not fun gameplay.
The perk should be re-worked entirely. Maybe each time a survivor is hooked, for the next 20/25/30 seconds repairing, healing and cleansing speeds are reduced by 20%. Obviously values could be adjusted but I think a higher % for a more limited time would be fair.
Also, @Tsulan .. gens take 80 seconds to complete, healing takes 16/20/32/40 seconds to complete. Botany gets a much higher % because they are smaller numbers. Something close to 33% would be ridiculous for Thanatophobia. 15% would be completely useless for Botany.0 -
@brokedownpalace said:
15% reduction for one survivor being injured is basically just a free 15%. Odds are, for the vast majority of the trial, at LEAST one survivor will be hooked or injured. Stacked with Sloppy Butcher it'll be silly. Like 24 seconds to heal someone else or 45ish seconds to self heal? That is not fun gameplay.The perk should be re-worked entirely. Maybe each time a survivor is hooked, for the next 20/25/30 seconds repairing, healing and cleansing speeds are reduced by 20%. Obviously values could be adjusted but I think a higher % for a more limited time would be fair.
Also, @Tsulan .. gens take 80 seconds to complete, healing takes 16/20/32/40 seconds to complete. Botany gets a much higher % because they are smaller numbers. Something close to 33% would be ridiculous for Thanatophobia. 15% would be completely useless for Botany.
Yeah i know, an actually strong killer perk would be ridiculous...
Only survivors deserve them.1 -
K. I forgot you can't have an actual discussion.Tsulan said:@brokedownpalace said:
15% reduction for one survivor being injured is basically just a free 15%. Odds are, for the vast majority of the trial, at LEAST one survivor will be hooked or injured. Stacked with Sloppy Butcher it'll be silly. Like 24 seconds to heal someone else or 45ish seconds to self heal? That is not fun gameplay.The perk should be re-worked entirely. Maybe each time a survivor is hooked, for the next 20/25/30 seconds repairing, healing and cleansing speeds are reduced by 20%. Obviously values could be adjusted but I think a higher % for a more limited time would be fair.
Also, @Tsulan .. gens take 80 seconds to complete, healing takes 16/20/32/40 seconds to complete. Botany gets a much higher % because they are smaller numbers. Something close to 33% would be ridiculous for Thanatophobia. 15% would be completely useless for Botany.
Yeah i know, an actually strong killer perk would be ridiculous...
Only survivors deserve them.1 -
simple, just buff dying light as well
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