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Dead Hard Question - Eating Powers - Do you think this is ok? Yes or No - Video
Do you think DH eating these powers is ok?
Comments
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Obviously it isn't okay.
I don't know anyone who thinks it IS okay.
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You haven't been in the other topic I just posted in, it seems.
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As much as I like Pixelbush, this video is mostly wrong, why you may ask?
Because all of these situations would of resulted in the survivor being exhausted on the ground last patch, all of these interactions make sense youre just not getting a hit that you didnt deserve in the first place
The only situation here that is unfair is Nemesis, if the server does reject a hit it shouldnt completely ignore a pallet
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So if I ambush with Pig and it eats my ambush, forcing me into cooldown, when it would normally allow to coast through the survivor and get a hit/360 for a hit, that's fair?
Losing Victor instantly to DH is fair?
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It changed from screw survivor to screw the killer
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The perk is beyond busted in power. There is no actual good reason to not run it since it's just a third health state and better than any other perk by many magnitudes.
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I switched to it from Lithe.
Self-Care/DH/WOO/Botany
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If you get validated then you shouldn't suffer a cooldown
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It's such a great perk you're basically hurting your team not running it.
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eating M1s sure, w/e. I really don't think it should eat M2s tho. It should dodge M2s, so side dodging a huntress hatchet or out if range of slingers spear and PH's POTD. But it shouldn't be able to eat them outright.
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Yeah no. Hard no even.
I could live with fake hit's as outside of the visual effect it had no real mechanical effects.
This does and massivily even. This might be the first instance i've ever seen something in a game that gives you invincibility frames and still allows you to block things even though you have no collision.
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Oh hell no! This is complete BS. Dead Hard should not be eating M2s like this. Nemesis’s is supposed to break the pallet if it doesn’t hit a Survivor so how the hell does Dead Hard block that too?
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No this is absolutely NOT okay.
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I love david and I love Dead Hard(My main exhaustion perk) but why on earth does he it block/destroy M2 attacks now?
Its supposed to avoid an attack not block/destroy it.
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I had no idea that this happened. This is important info that the team should see. Sorry in advance, I know I'm not really supposed to do this, but could you take a look at this and pass it on to the right people @MandyTalk ? Thanks.
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Was getting Exhausted on the ground fair?
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This isnt an issue with Dead Hard tho, nor hit validation. It is an issue with server awareness.
The server doesnt know that there is a pallet there. The game doesnt get simulated on the serverside, the server simply recieves actions and sends those actions through to other players, making your character move on the side of the opponent.
So, what you're seeing, is actually the game being fully rendered on your side and NPC's that are controlled by the server who recieve input from your opponent. Meaning your opponent is not directly controlling your character, the server is. Aka: Player moves their character>input is send to server>input is send to other players>player character moves on your side
While when the game is simulated on the server side, a lot of the game is rendered on the serverside too. Meaning the characters move on the server side. So now you have a chain of: Player moves their character>input is send to server>server moves character while also sending the new state the player input has created>player character moves on your side.
The difference for most multiplayer games isnt actually that much to the point of irrelevance, which makes dedicated servers very simple to create. However, it is environmental interference where the issue comes in. Because how does the server keep track of the environment when the server isnt rendered? How does the server connect the dots between there being a pallet when the hit, according to your screen, hit a survivor and not the pallet?
Because the server never recieves input from the killer that the killer hit the pallet. Nor that the pallet was there in the first place. Server side simulation would cause the killer to break the pallet.
There is still a solution for the current way though. The solution on short term, would be recieving the killer data from survivor perspective, meaning if your character hit a pallet on their screen, while yours hit a survivor and the roll is in favor of survivor, the input from the killer character on the survivor screen also is counted. Making survivor effectively laggier to play, but at least whenever the server is in favor of the survivor, it doesnt remove any secondary actions that would otherwise happen.
As for dead hard being a uniquely unfair perk, nah. That's like saying basekit instadowns are unfair(which, I personally am kind of a proponent for, I rather have killers being able to hit survivors twice very quickly, than a survivor being punished with 2 healthstates being removed in situations they have 0 control over, but the changes I would make to the killers to compensate for the lack of instadown would be more than enough, like Bubba essentially having 50-75% increased movementspeed while sawing and having less charge, meaning he can remove pallets faster and close gaps a lot quicker)
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Really isnt, its a hit you didnt get in the first place. Only problem is its visually deceiving
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I guess I'm lucky that Trickster is the least effected one by this. Even if someone ate my knives with DH to protect someone it would only be a 1-2 delay to their inevitable death. There's a couple situations I can still see this being a huge problem to Trickster though but a lot less likely to happen.
The other killers however? Definitely a lot more detrimental to the flow and pace of the game. It's very interruptive to their powers. Not sure if the hit validation was intended to work this way but I think it should definitely be looked at.
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Also it wouldnt normally allow you to coast, if the survivor timed their Dead Hard in a way that you were able to do that, well thats still present today.
If you get a hit rejected, last patch they would of been exhausted on the ground.
The Nemesis interaction needs to be looked at how ever
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For a Perk that grants momentary Invincibility (thing is there, but can't hurt it) yes, it fits. However it's probably not the best implementation for what looks like a "dodge".
Lazy solution would be to remove Hit Validation for Powers (if such a distinction is possible), only keeping it for M1's.
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NO, so it got fixed but leads to another issue
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I don't recall saying it was.
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why is this a video when most of the things talked about don't actually appear as example footage?
i'm just supposed to take your word for it, huh? bro i can't even take the wiki's word for it half the time.
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Fun? Self respect? Skill? those are definitely options not to run it. Never running exhaustion perks has made me an infinitely better survivor, simply the virtue that the majority of my escapes are earned through my own survivor skill. Which albeit isn't that amazing, but its certainly better than the majority of dead-hard-for-distance users. Its a lot more fun not to rely so heavily on a set of 1-3 exhaustion perks and to simply deck out your perk build with more unique ideas.
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I think you need to be careful in how you frame a question.
First off, you need to be able to separate how the perk is working mechanically vs what is intended. If the perk is doing something it isn't meant to do of course it is not ok, if the perk is doing something it is meant to do, it is ok. So in the case of a survivor vs Nemesis, the pallet should break, the survivor should remain injured, not down.
As avid Twins player, if I am using Victor and pounce on a survivor who successfully dead hards. Yes it is OK that the hit counts as a "miss" on my part. Just as much as it counts when someone uses Sprint Burst at the nick of time in order to avoid getting hit. The momentum he brings up has nothing to do with how hit validation is calculated.
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This is definitely not ok and should grant Dead Hard getting a nerf now that it always grants a third health state with no Exhausted on the ground. Can't wait for it to stay like this for 2 years tho
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i dont think DH should grant a Survivor invincibility frames.
that way ranged powers as well as Bear Traps will still be able to affect them.
i always hated that the counter to a trap specifically designed to catch out running prey was to just run through it a bit harder than usual. like, excuse me? what kind of logic is that? xD
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Now we know what we Huntress players suffer. Always nice to see a hatchet getting sucked into the void by a Dead Hard while it makes the "splash" sound.
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Did you even watch the video or you are just talking #########?
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I watched the video before this post was even made
He keeps talking about killers who have "dashes" will simply stop if they get hit validated instead of continuing their dash like they did before, or projectiles being able to hit a Survivor because a Survivor behind them used Dead Hard.
Except this is not a new interaction, any time you hear a Survivor scream and they don't go down thanks to Dead Hard, they would of gone down Exhausted last patch, no projectiles going through them, or dashes either.
The only interaction that should be looked at is Nemesis', he should still be able to break a pallet if a Survivor Dead Hards
Everything I just said, Ive said numerous times so I ask you, did you read my post? Or you just talking #########?
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No. Missing a regular hit is one thing, but missing a power attack because of DH is just ridiculous.
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You seem to have a hard time grasping the fact that DH shouldn't leave you exhausted on the ground AND it shouldn't eat powers.
You seem to be throwing quite the tantrum on top of that.
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I assume whoever made the video obviously didn't have much proof of Dead Hard being an issue, since I just watched 1 minute and 30 seconds of a Plague getting her head slammed by pallets before I gave up watching it.
Lame video btw.
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Probably the best contribution you've made in a while.
Kudos!
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I think it should only be able to be used in the injured state. So healthy Survivors don’t use it to just pallet dash.
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O_O
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I hate that people are using this video for reference. Everything that's mentioned is not game breaking and he can only prove 1 one the claims. That being the Nemesis whip. On top of that, some of the things he claimed have been pre-existing bugs. (Demo shred, Victor pounce, Pig dash). There's no evidence yet people are just taking his word and preaching to the choir.
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Considering it's a survivor perk, is this actually a problem?
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Dead Hard used just for distance is very strong if not OP, least they could do is to remove the invulnerability frames from it.
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From free hit dodge it becomes free victor kill. Yes this is a problem
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Original release interaction with Billy's chainsaw when someone dead harded. You went through them and were able to hit others behind the dead harder.
Interaction with billy's chainsaw when server where introduced. 9/10 the dead harder was exhausted on the ground. this was a big screw you for the survivor and wasen't okay
Interaction with billy's chainsaw now. Billy "hits" the dead harding survivor, stops chainsawing but the dead harder is fine. This is a equally big screw you to the killer and still isn't okay.
This isn't just a visual bug anymore. Being able to bodyblock hits while technically having no collision is bs.
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Not entirely Dead Hard related, but a fun watch either way :3
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That's not the point. You said it went from 'screw survivor' to 'screw killer'.
Is it really a problem when a SURVIVOR perk no longer 'screws the survivor'?
Yes, there are erroneous interactions due to false positive flags, like Nemesis' tentacle not breaking a pallet if it misses a DH survivor, and Victor should probably phase through a DH survivor instead of stopping on them, but he incurs a momentary stun either way, so Victor's probably lower on the issue list.
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It's a problem when a perk doesn't work in a fair manner, as intended, regardless of who it benefits.
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The only power its eating is Nemesis'
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The problem with the word "deserve" is that I don't think only the player with the fastest internet connection deserves to see the game. People have to play based on what's on their screen, and the game should account for that somehow rather than deciding that the person with the fastest connection always has priority.
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And how do you suggest they do that?
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See, the issue I have with this video is that it gives for granted that if someone dead hards, dash attack should go through them.
Well, in my opinion they shouldn't: the killer attacked that specific survivor, the survivors DH'ed, the killer missed and the attack is over, it shouldn't keep going towards another survivor. So, as I see it this change is perfectly fine in the context.
The issues is different with projectiles, as they are, obviously, projectiles, and nemesis not breaking the pallets.
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"Didn't deserve"
Like DH isn't a perk that robs you of hits that you DO actually deserve.
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