The issue with tapping to get an advantage and to avoid skill checks (for instance gentapping)...!

Malakir

SIX said:

I really don't wanna bring dribbling a DS user, ain't that an exploit too Mr.iwantthingsright? Ain't you denying him his skill check, hence the Perk ?

dude I explained all things you and others mentioned in my previous posts, this guy just won't think or its a troll. Let's stop giving attention to this thread.
The answer is no and everybody agrees on that

Case closed

Jack11803

@Giche said:

@powerbats said:

Devs make the rules, teh devs say it's not an exploit so your claims to the contrary have no basis or factual claim to be correct.

They said back then that : "Infinite take skills" when asked for a fix.

Get lost.

Memorizing and having reaction plans or time is by definition skill.

You and your butt arguments get lost

Giche

@Jack11803 said:

Memorizing and having reaction plans or time is by definition skill.

Not in the case of Infinite.

Denying or even discussing this ?

Go back under your bridge.

Jack11803

@Giche said:

@Jack11803 said:

Memorizing and having reaction plans or time is by definition skill.

Not in the case of Infinite.

Denying or even discussing this ?

Go back under your bridge.

Are you trying to argue with the official dictionary of the English language Merriem Webster? The hell!?

HellDescent

Gen tapping isn't an exploit and it's extremely slow slow

Peasant

@Incarnate I am so glad that you made this post, I always appreciate a good laugh!

Seriously though, gen tapping is just a very slow method of generator repair. Survivors pay for the tap with time which is what Ruin is intended to do in the first place, buy time.

I don't know you, but your lack of a profile picture and adamant resolve to show everyone how gen-tapping is OP demonstrates to me that you are a novice player

Maybe if got some more playtime, video evidence, hell a screenshot would do you a world of good. All you've done so far is waltz in here looking like a noob while whining about a mechanic that hurts survivors. I guess survivors can finally get a taste of what their cAmPiNg Is Op threads look like at least.

Good day.

fcc2014

Incarnate said:

@fcc2014 said:
It takes longer to Gen tap than actually work through it. Who cares if 4 survivors gen tap their way through the whole match the problem isn't gen tapping the problem is you! You need to apply map pressure. Stop using excuses as to why you "fail".

Hang on there, there is a difference between tapping your way through until it's done and just tapping once to remove the regressing mechanic, including any effect put on - like overcharge. It takes time for the killer to make the gen regress - ie. to apply the overcharge effect, time which the killer could be using to apply map pressure.

So no the problem isn't me - if you can't see that there is a problem, then you have a problem.
Also, being able to just keep single tapping to avoid an intended game mechanic, is by definition an exploit, which devs really should realize but apparently don't.

Again if gen tapping is keeping you up and night and your excuse for not being able to git gud go play something else.

twistedmonkey

No gen tapping is not an exploit, Ruin by design is to slow down gen progress, tapping a gen makes the gens go much slower than normal, the devs have stated it as not an exploit, it does not matter what you think as its a simple fact.

There are many ways to overcomes certain game mechanics, take a killer dribbling a DS user, dropping a survivor before the blind, walking backwards to mind game, each one of these tactics is removing or changing an intended game mechanic but they are not exploits they are strategies used by the player.

Mediva

I have no idea why you even consider this an exploit. In my mind, Ruin is a perk you choose to run. How a survivor deals with those perks, is a choice also. Yes, they can just gen tap. Or they can do the gen with skill checks. Or they can go look for the totem. In first two, instances, you got what you wanted out of the ruin, which is slowing down a gen. So to me, it does his job in both instances.

Survivors are people and the problem with people is, that they always find creative ways to go around a problem. There is never just one solution.

I am a survivor main and i dont gen tap. I just battle through it. Why? Because i do want to the skill checks. because even when i hit a good, and the gen regresses, it still gives me points for a good skill check. And with skillchecks, i even have a better chance at hitting a great, which is 150 points. So a survivor who does gen tap, is screwing himself out of points already. Plus, i think its faster to just battle through it. You might not hit them all, but when you do hit one, its faster then tapping.

There are just more ways then 1 to deal with a problem. There always is. And when you cant deal with survivors finding a different solution to the ruin "problem" then the one you want them to follow, then maybe you should try a different playstyle without ruin.

Oh and also, try playing survivor and actually do some gen tapping. And see if you still think its an advantage. To me the loss of points from not getting skillchecks, is far more greater then the 5% regress of a gen when i miss it. And with or without ruin, gens will finish. Ruin was never ment as a perk to not complete gens at all.
There are just different ways to solve a problem, doesnt mean that its an exploit.

AChaoticKiller

Yea as someone who uses ruin a lot I like it when they gen tap. It wastes more time than just doing the gen or looking for the totem.

alivebydeadight

@Incarnate said:
Some say that gentapping isn't an exploit, unfair, a gamemechanical advantage/disadvantage, or a problem.

... but gentapping is an exploit and it does give an unfair game mechanical advantage for survivors and a game mechanical disadvantage for killers. Why..? Well first because it allows you workaround an intended game mechanical effect, second it can be used to remove an effect that takes more time to apply.

To give an example, hex: ruin, survivor players just tap the gens to avoid the skill checks, which renders the perk useless.
To give another example, overcharge, same thing, as above, with the exception that a lot of survivor players will just tap the gen and run, accept the skill check fail and run along, where the survivor isn't at any real disadvantage other than giving away that a survivor was there, but since the survivor is already running away it won't matter to that survivor. But that will certainly matter in the matter of game balance, as regressing the generators is a beneficial mechanic for the killer, which can so easily be rendered almost useless, and everytime the killer has to apply the effect, the killer loses time, which gives an additional advantage to the survivors.

There are more examples, but these illustrate just fine that there is an a game mechanical issue with being able to simply click once or keep clicking to avoid a game mechanic that is supposed to be a detriment to the survivors.

If you have more examples like the above, feel free to add them.
There is nothing that can make the above an acceptable matter, the devs need to fix this.

just make it to where gen tapping ruin gens will work like overcharge, ruin was made to slow gen progress and I actually does nothing in high ranks

TheBean

I like reading these threads... I read most of the posts on this thread.

People don't want to call it an exploit because of the negative shadow it places over what you are calling an exploit. People that tend to do it, don't want to call it an exploit cause it makes them feel like they are cheating, when usually they aren't. Even though the Devs have sanctioned it, it would still be considered an exploit based on the definition of the term.

One thing to note first about gen tapping. If you do that as a survivor as a legit tactic to get through a match, then you should stop playing. You suck. Gen tapping is a sign of a novice survivor.

Even though it is possible to gen tap a generator slower when trying to bypass ruin with it, then you aren't gaining a huge advantage... However... What if it is Huntress Lullaby?

You can completely negate Huntress Lullaby with gen tapping. So what is the point of ever running that perk if you know survivors can gen tap and skip it's effects completely. Maybe for the very off chance you trigger a skill check in the second you tap.... Very very rare.

malloymk

I tried gen tapping. It takes longer to do gen tap than just just repairing the normal way.

If an exploit is worse than the regular option, can it really be deemed an exploit?

Incarnate

@Malakir said:
dude I explained all things you and others mentioned in my previous posts, this guy just won't think or its a troll. Let's stop giving attention to this thread.
The answer is no and everybody agrees on that

Case closed

..and people keep dismissing, the fact that this isn't just a matter of that you can gentap, but you can tap through most that would trigger a skill check thus avoiding the skill check and any detrimental effect associated with it INCLUDING other intended gameplay balance effects - like for instance alerting the killer.

@TheBean is right about whats said in regards to the exploit, and in regards to sanctioning/whitelisting, it's actually ONLY "gentapping with ruin" that's sanctioned - none of the other examples of tapping (including gentapping) to avoid negative gameplay mechanics and effects.

The main point of the matter is that because you can tap and avoid most skill checks, which also means you can avoid intended gameplay mechanics and their effects, including their associated mechanics - like failing a skill check alerting the killer and revealing your location.

As @TheBean is also pointing out, what if it's not Hex: Ruin, but say Hex: Huntress Lullaby? You can avoid its effects.

Unnerving presence, same deal as above.
Healing, both selfcare and healing others - same as above.
Sabotaging, with and without the perk - same as above.

Addons? It's the same deal - basically renders any addon that affects the skill check useless.

Lets take The Doc's madness, you can avoid the randomly placed skill check, by tapping (gentapping).

So, it's most certainly not just the tapping of gens thats affected by a player being able to just to tap to avoid the skill checks, as it negate a lot of other gameplay balance and mechanics.

Why they've have sanctioned the tapping of gens with hex: ruin don't make sense especially when considering how many other gameplay effects and mechanics it affects negatively, including the intended gameplay balance. However as mentioned above, it's only tapping of gens with hex: ruin thats actually sanctioned. This means that any other type of tapping to avoid skill checks with detrimental effects, would be an abuse, an exploit of game mechanics to achieve unfair gameplay advantage.

Furthermore, when you can just tap to avoid the skill checks with detrimental effects, it renders certain perks useless.

Nos37

@Incarnate said:
Furthermore, when you can just tap to avoid the skill checks with detrimental effects, it renders certain perks useless.

Survive With Friends renders way more Killer perks uselss and it creates a lot of imbalance issues, yet SWF isn't going anywhere... Which is unfortunate because I would love a deceptive Killer who can pretend to be a Survivor, but that won't happen because the devs know that SWF would use voice comms to shut that Killer down.

My point is: yeah, sure, there's spilt milk that you're trying to make everyone aware of, but there's toxic waste being dumped into the river that's more detrimental and even that's not going to be cleaned up.

Incarnate

@Nos37 said:

@Incarnate said:
Furthermore, when you can just tap to avoid the skill checks with detrimental effects, it renders certain perks useless.

Survive With Friends renders way more Killer perks uselss and it creates a lot of imbalance issues, yet SWF isn't going anywhere... Which is unfortunate because I would love a deceptive Killer who can pretend to be a Survivor, but that won't happen because the devs know that SWF would use voice comms to shut that Killer down.

My point is: yeah, sure, there's spilt milk that you're trying to make everyone aware of, but there's toxic waste being dumped into the river that's more detrimental and even that's not going to be cleaned up.

Breaking something thats damaged isn't automatically justified by it being damaged.
Same deal as above with breaking something further thats already broken, isn't automatically justified just because it broken. This is especially true in video games, if something is broken it either needs to be removed or fixed, not broken further.

Furthermore, when it comes to SWF, it doesn't outright negate the game mechanical effects and their consequences, sure they can better work around them through communicating, but it doesn't negate their effects. I agree with the fact that SWF creates a ton of balance issues, and in my opinion should've been disabled until they've actually fixed the balance issues that SWF imposes.

Right now it seems you're trying to defend there is something in the game currently that can be abused to directly avoid skill checks with a detrimental effect, which directly negates any associated gameplay balance aspect. Your argument above is basically like saying, we should just ignore this ("spilt milk") and if we break something in the game, it doesn't matter, we should ignore that too ("toxic waste") - heck while we're at it why not just whitelist all potential abusable exploits. ("Emphasizing the point").

Nos37

@Incarnate said:
Furthermore, when it comes to SWF, it doesn't outright negate the game mechanical effects and their consequences

The game mechanic for totems is that they are supposed to be hard to find. If I play Survivor solo and another Survivor finds a hex totem, I don't know where it's at. If SWF finds a hex totem, everyone in that SWF group know its location.

The game mechanic for Knock Out is supposed to make downed Survivors harder to find. If I play solo and another Survivor goes down, I don't know where they are. If a member of a SWF group is downed, everyone in that SWF group knows their location.

These examples are far more imbalanced than a Survivor cutting their Action Speed in half just to stay hidden from the Killer.

Incarnate

@Nos37 said:

@Incarnate said:
Furthermore, when it comes to SWF, it doesn't outright negate the game mechanical effects and their consequences

The game mechanic for totems is that they are supposed to be hard to find. If I play Survivor solo and another Survivor finds a hex totem, I don't know where it's at. If SWF finds a hex totem, everyone in that SWF group know its location.

The game mechanic for Knock Out is supposed to make downed Survivors harder to find. If I play solo and another Survivor goes down, I don't know where they are. If a member of a SWF group is downed, everyone in that SWF group knows their location.

These examples are far more imbalanced than a Survivor cutting their Action Speed in half just to stay hidden from the Killer.

I'm not disagreeing with you in regards to SWF can impose quite severe balance issues, but the above example doesn't outright negate the effect, because the perk is still doing it's job - you're still relying on the knowledge given to you by the other player. But like I said, I'm not disagree with you about the balance issues
that SWF can impose.

These are completely seperate issues, and none of them should be used as as or in arguments against each other to support the right to stay in the game, because none of these should have any right to be in the game as they currently are - simply because they impose such gameplay balance issues as they do. Personally, I think they should've kept SWF for a casual (non-ranked mode), solo play for competitive mode (both unranked and ranked). It should be obvious why SWF should not be in ranked play - simply because of all those balance issues. KYF as is can easily be used for tournament style play.

Malakir

@Incarnate don't tag me saying I avoid the discussion when you just ignore my posts saying the sme thing over and over again. Enjoy your echo chamber and leave me alone. We might talk again when you'll be smarter

MegaWaffle

@ModernFable said:
Incarnate said:

@ModernFable said:

They even confirmed on stream what aren’t exploits/bannable actions

I know, and the devs clearly don't understand what it does allowing gentapping!

It's a gamebalance issue!

Almost everything Behavior has done has caused game balance issues, however Gen Tapping is not an exploit. Whether it’s balanced is another thing entirely.

On a side note, unless they’ve recently changed it, you cannot avoid Overcharge by Gen Tapping.

You can still hit the Overcharge skill check while running away (I really don't understand that) but it will always pop up.

As for Gen Tapping it is exploiting the perks mechanics by removing the ability to get skill checks. Sure it takes a bit longer to do the gen as a whole and I honestly don't care when people do it but it is by definition exploiting a game mechanic.

altruistic

Thankfully the Developers don’t agree with you.

I don’t gen tap because I hit skill checks, usually.  

I notice you didn’t say anything about DS dribbling being an exploit.  You’re doing something to avoid the survivor getting a skillcheck.. 🧐. 

Tapping doesn’t even matter.  Most people now are so bad at this game it’s like playing against bots.  

darktrix

When I started I tried both. Neither tapping or powering through it on average was any faster than the other. I just power through them now.

Gen tapping is annoying with the constant stopping and starting. It is also distracting to some degree, you lose a bit of your situational awareness trying to keep a rhythm. Powering through it can be annoying when you get those five chained skill checks after the other. You know what I'm talking about.

Thing I dislike is when you don't do a great skill check on ruin, progress on the gen stops for a couple seconds opening you up to yet another skill check. Some people will pause and let the sparks die down then resume cause why risk another skill check when you aren't getting any progress in return? But I don't consider that gen tapping.

megdonalds

@Malakir said:
Say that hex ruin is for preventinf too finish the general its hilarious. I'm not the best survivor ever but I still work through it efficiently I actually get more great skillchecks with it than when there isn't. With ruin your slow the gens for extra 10s and I can assure you isn't by gen tapping, it would take way longer

That's wrong. Ruin secures a minimum repair time of 80s for a single survivor without toolbox and when he hits every great skill check, otherwise it takes ofc longer.

Incarnate

@Malakir said:
@Incarnate don't tag me saying I avoid the discussion when you just ignore my posts saying the sme thing over and over again. Enjoy your echo chamber and leave me alone. We might talk again when you'll be smarter

I'm not saying you're avoiding the discussion - what I am saying is that you keep dismissing the point I'm making in regards to tapping to avoid skill checks with detrimental effects, which negates associated gameplay balance and mechanics. I get that when they do it, they're wasting time, granting more time to the killer to kill them. However, it still doesn't change the fact that they're negating various gameplay mechanics, which is intended to help the killer.

...I know what an exploit is, which is why it's completely ridiculous they've whitelisted gentapping gens with ruin, they apparently have no idea what balance issues that creates. And quite clearly, a lot of people don't get this either, since they keep defending gentapping, whitelisted or not.

Please do understand that allowing gentapping and other forms of tapping to avoid skill checks with detrimental effects, negates intended gameplay mechanics, renders several perks and addons, even a certain power useless in that regard.

In regards to the echochamber - I do hear what you guys are saying, but apparently it doesn't matter what I say.

DocFabron

I don't really care about gentapping. I find it takes survivors longer to gentap than it does to just work through it. 

I personally don't gentap, but if someone else wants to do it, it's whatever. 

ekto

WAHHHH

Malakir

Incarnate said:

@Malakir said:
@Incarnate don't tag me saying I avoid the discussion when you just ignore my posts saying the sme thing over and over again. Enjoy your echo chamber and leave me alone. We might talk again when you'll be smarter

I'm not saying you're avoiding the discussion - what I am saying is that you keep dismissing the point I'm making in regards to tapping to avoid skill checks with detrimental effects, which negates associated gameplay balance and mechanics. I get that when they do it, they're wasting time, granting more time to the killer to kill them. However, it still doesn't change the fact that they're negating various gameplay mechanics, which is intended to help the killer.

...I know what an exploit is, which is why it's completely ridiculous they've whitelisted gentapping gens with ruin, they apparently have no idea what balance issues that creates. And quite clearly, a lot of people don't get this either, since they keep defending gentapping, whitelisted or not.

Please do understand that allowing gentapping and other forms of tapping to avoid skill checks with detrimental effects, negates intended gameplay mechanics, renders several perks and addons, even a certain power useless in that regard.

In regards to the echochamber - I do hear what you guys are saying, but apparently it doesn't matter what I say.

And you dismiss my argument by ignoring what I said in then previous pages so

Oh you think we don't care what you say? Maybe because you don't care what we say either

As sad before, stop tagging me I don't care anymore, this discussion its just a big cycle repeating the same thing, some would listen others ignore the facts. Wont change