Does the DC penalty actually help?
Did the DC penalty actually help with anything or did it just enforce misery against miserable Killer's/Maps
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For sure. There is a pretty big difference in games when they turn off the penalties, you have people dc'ing just because they don't like the killer or they were found first. When it's off you get a dc almost every game for reasons like that.
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When the penalty is disabled, survivors quit like you wouldn't believe. The first time they're downed: instant DC.
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This game is unplayable as a solo que survivor without dc penalties
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trust me, the penalties were removed a couple weeks back and the DCs were through the roof
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The game borders on unplayable when the DC penalty is off, so yes, absolutely.
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Game is unplayable with penalty off.
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This again.
I swear, not a day goes by when I don't see a survivor defending DCing because 'x killer/game/map isn't fun for me'.
99% of the time, this translates into 'I think x killer/game/map is not an easy win for me'.
As someone who primarily plays killer, the DC removal makes the game nearly unplayable. Survivors will DC when you hook/down/exist, when you build counter to what they want to do and not infrequently just to tank their MMR down to stomp lowbie killers.
This also means that both the killer and the other survivors are in for a crap game.
If anything, I still see way too many predictable DCs and think that sustained deliberate DCs should be punished more severely.
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Bold of you to assume I'm a Survivor main.
I am however aware of how unfun some Killer's are. Either because a Killer sweats out of their mind for the 4K in a casual game, tedious perk combinations(Ruin+Undying+Pop), or a Killer that is generally unpleasant to deal with by their mechanics alone(Twins), or a combination of all the above.
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I'm so confident in that assumption that I'd probably buy stocks.
If anything, your response sort of confirms it. But okay, let me explain this from a killer POV.
- There are playstyles that survivors find frustrating. There are playstyles that killers find frustrating. This doesn't mean you get to sabotage the game for everyone else. Some of us have limited time to play in a day, and if 2 of our 4 games are ruined by someone deciding to have a sulk, then it's sort of a big deal.
- Yes, even intermediate killers like myself play sweaty, initially. Know why? Because survivors tend to play sweaty too. If we go easy initially and dial it up later, chances are we've already lost 3-4 gens without a kill and get teabagged all the way to the exit gates. Instead, it's smarter to go hard initially and dial back if you are stomping. That said, isn't it odd how killers are expected 'not to play sweaty because it's not fun for survivors' but not vice versa? Nah, sod that. When every post-game screen doesn't have 3-4 Dead Hards, 2-3 Spinechills, 2 CoH totems etc., then we can have this discussion.
- It's entirely possible for a coordinated group of survivors to pop a gen within 14 seconds of the game starting, 2 gens before 1 minute and 3 gens before 2 minutes. Yes, we play sweaty sometimes. This is also why.
- Any killer running Ruin+Pop+Undying is either silly, new or running a meme build. Undying is DOA outside of gimmick builds or 'let me demonstrate this hex in a video' streams. Ruin is a huge gamble. Most high level killers now generally run Discordance/Tinkerer+Pop or Deadlock. When they run slowdown perks at all (most high level games I see run a combination of info perks and chase perks now).
- If I had my way, a whole ton of survivor perks would be reworked because they are unfun to play against. I still don't get to just arbitrarily DC whenever I think someone is running Spinechill, Dead Hard or PTS. You don't get to DC because the killer picked the killer they enjoy playing.
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This is a post I made back in April 2019, long before the devs updated the game with a DC penalty system in late January 2020, and there was a DC "epidemic" going on that made the game practically unplayable:
The only things that kept people coming back to DbD back then were the DLC's and updates, but with DC's being so Rampant, it was a very rare experience for anyone to actually finish a match with all players present. I want OP to picture this as it was the average at the height of the "Epidemic": 8 out of every 10 matches, 1 or more players DC, and over the most petty or asinine reasons.
It was honestly feeling like the game was dying since people were becoming increasingly frustrated by it, and due to the level of DC'ing we began questioning if we were actually even playing the game at all? Fortunately, the devs play tested the DC penalty system in December 2019 before it was released, which finally allowed us to enjoy full matches again and restored much of our faith in them (Why it took them so damn long to institute it in the first place is anyone's guess). After releasing the Penalty system Live, the feeling was a euphoric sense of relief for all but a few players who whined and tried to defend their rights to DC without consequences.
If you think I'm exaggerating those DC numbers, while this isn't as High as it was during the "Epidemic" levels of DC'ing in the Spring-Summer of 2019, here's a guy/gal that tracked all of their stats, including how often players DC'ed, over the span of 100 killer games, literally a week or so before they released the DC penalty system:
in that post you should note that out of 100 games, he experienced 61 DC's.
OP, That's the kind of experience you get when the DC penalties are off... does that honestly sound like fun to you?
TL;DR: The DC Penalty system helped save this game from dying due to too many DC's, and I've provided posts with evidence of that.
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Honestly, I'm surprised it wasn't more.
I started mid way through last year, in a period of no DC penalty.
Every game that wasn't a complete stomp by an SWF that had sandbagged their ranks by DCing to flatten newbies on stream was a mess of DCs.
Killer downs you? DC.
Killer hooks you? DC.
Killer is a killer you don't like playing against? DC.
There is a possibility that you may not win the match easily? DC.
And yet, not a day goes by where some survivor player doesn't make this same 'I should be allowed to DC whenever I want' thread. It's pure, unadulterated entitlement.
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Somehow my post disappeared. I made another. Sorry for the double post.
Post edited by MegaZero on0 -
Then you'd lose money. Yes I'm a Killer main. Yes I know what Killer's have to deal with.
But Survivor perks are more often defensive and rely on Killer's doing something stupid or being impatient.
As for these super sweaty swf's? They're rarely that effective and tend to be playing for fun more then anything else. Sure they'll broadcast every move you make but once you know they're SWF they're easy to deal with because they're all altruistic and will predictably try to save their friends at all cost.
Also I have no idea what you're going on about no Killer's running Ruin/Undying. Countless Killer's run that combo because it can buy you one or two generators worth of regressing unless you're absolutely ######### by RNG.
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With the type of game DBD has there is no place for a DC penalty. It's the same thing as putting a DC penalty in F13. A horrible idea. Or you could do it like REsistance. It is only a 5 minute timer. Sure in DBD it starts off at 5 minutes but consecutive DCs can stack very high which is just dumb.
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Players complain that it's on
Players complain that it's off
They can't win that fight
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I feel the direction this game has been going is pretty positive overall(I've been a pretty constant player for 3 years now). I'm very curtain that killers have DC penalties as well. But, lets be honest. I feel this hurts the survivors more than the killers. Of course this isn't about the good killers, but the ones that take advantage of the system. Let me explain.
1) Killers that body block: This is a big deal that I feel still needs to be addressed and has been in this game since the dawn of time itself. With the idea of being DC'ed, why do any survivors want to be in a game that a killer just can't run out and find other survivors to hang them? These killers just stand there to get "a free kill". It hurts the survivors in many ways.
--1) It potentially stops the other 3 survivors from working on generators to help this one to get away.
--2) Another survivor goes down trying to save the hooked one.
--3) It makes the game harder for the rest of the survivors to actually(possibly) win.
--4) Thus we now have DC's. But, get penalized for leaving what is to be said a sad and horrible game.
This gives killers the freedom to screw over survivors so they can have a good laugh. But, it doesn't end there. Let us continue.
2) Killers downed you and watch you: Killers that stand and watch your body lying on the floor. There isn't much to be said here. I'm sure you know where I'm going at this point. But, for those that don't, lets dig in as there are tons of problems here. A lot related to DC issues.
--1) There's absolutely nothing a survivor can do for a downed friend if a killer stands over them and isn't hanging them. If you have the one perk that allows you to get up, sure. You are sorta free to go. You might freak the killer out getting up. But, are you really? More than not the killer will just down you right away again. Yeah, this is more body blocking. But, I'm separating these issues for reasons. As it becomes more dire.
--2) All survivors are downed. Yes, I've seen this situation. At this point we are all at the killers mercy to be hung if we can't all crawl away. However, here's yet another instance where a killer can pick up all bodies and pile them up and stare at them. Slowly going to hang each one. Why? Because they feel it's fun and tortuous as a killer. In reality us survivors just want the game to end. At this point more DC's commence. As in reality the game really is...over.
--3) The last survivor is down. Yes, this has happened to me as well. I was the last survivor. The killer decided to watch me crawl towards the exit door. In the hopes(like some killers are in the game) that he'll just let me leave. When in fact he then proceeds to pick me up and put me farther away again and drops me to the floor. The killer at this point has won in making sure that you DC out of the game. You effectively cannot exit the game unless the killer kills you, hooks you, or let's you leave. The game is over, YOU LOSE SIR! Yes indeed...I now lose the game and lose again when I'm out. Thanks for playing!
--4) The map has issues. Yes, on the Silent Hill map I had already been hooked and had 2 scratch marks. I was running from the killer. I went up the stairs and around the corner to find that I messed up in the heat of the action. I messed up indeed, as it was a dead end. Mounds of garbage next to me. A pumpkin in front of me to smash. A killer behind me about to down me and hopefully take me to a hook for my untimely death. Except this isn't what happened. Instead, he stood behind my body and all I could do was stand in the corner. As I watched my phone and a minute passed by, all I could do was DC. The killer wins again by getting you a DC ban.
So, to not get a DC in this latest situation one must leave their gaming machine of choice on forever until this killer hooks you or kills you. Otherwise he DC's out of the game as well. This DC ban the developers have implemented only benefits the killers in a lot of situations(and as being bullies). The only way for survivors to fight this ban now is to AFK themselves or run to the killer and/or have the killer led to other survivors so the team can die. Sounds fair to honest players doesn't it? There are plenty of things these developers can do to stop killers from any of these situations. Give survivors in-round perks from killers body blocking too close to the hook. Give survivors a in-round perk that allows them to knock the killer over if the game senses that they're body blocked in a corner. Give the survivors a in-round perk when the game senses that the killer is just standing above there crawling bodies so they can get up and continuously run away. These developers seemingly only help the killers. I'm obviously passionate about this game. But, I refuse to give them anymore money for anything until these issues can be fixed. It's completely an unbalanced mess right now. So, the only thing to do is to stop funding them and see if survivors start leaving the game. Maybe then they will get the message. Lord knows they must not be seeing my reports about body blocking as I report in the game ever time I play.
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I doubt it.
I swear, every time someone comes in making a post like this and claiming to be a killer main post-hoc, I always imagine Elmer Fudd in a bunny costume.
The simple fact that you used Ruin+Pop+Undying is quite telling.
Yes, survivor is a defensive role. The killer's job is to hook them. Hence, their perks revolve around either direct defense or ending the game faster, so there is less time to be hooked (indirect defense). It's not a matter of the killer making mistakes or being impatient - whether they are eating them or playing around them, these perks counter the killer.
That's not a good SWF. A good SWF will have 3 gens done before you even see them, will bring a RPD offering to abuse the infinite and won't be stupidly altruistic. What you are describing is a bad SWF.
What? No, no they don't. I watch a fair amount of killer streams. The meta has shifted away from Ruin+Undying. It did so ages ago. If some killers are sticking to it, it's probably mostly habit.
Now it's either:
- Mixed slowdown (Tink/Discordance+Pop/Ruin+Deadlock+x)
- Offense (CI/LP+STBFL+Blood+x)
- Pressure/indirect slowdown (Plaything+Retribution+x)
- Endgame cheese (NOED+NWO)
- Starstruck cheese (Starstruck+carry perks)
The only time you'll really see Undying is with Devour or NOED. Very, very seldom do you see it with Ruin now, because Survivors will prioritize cleansing it pretty much immediately.
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That's a false equivalency, those two arguments aren't equally valid nor do they need to listen to both sides equally.
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No of course not
it wasn't meant to be an equivalency... I just said what felt at that time
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Helps a little as dc's were rampant recently when it was off but if you want out a match you still can in under a min.
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