Dead Hard is so stupid right now
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You assume a lot of stuff. Never said you specifically. I was talking in general. All the daily posts on the forums. I think I'm cool on talking to you. You seem really angry for no reason. Take care.
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If you portray everyone as being angry every time they tell you, your wrong then sure ig
Hope you have a nice day idk why you would reply to a post specifically if you weren't talking specifically to that person but you do you ig
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You have a lot of posts saying the same thing, but you have not made any compelling arguments in favor of it completely eating things like:
- Pig's Dash, wherein it would normally be able to hit the DH user after DH ends or flick to reposition if they DH through you
- Billy's Saw/Blight Dash, wherein you may still get a hit after DH (pending their timing) or be able to reposition
- Avoiding damage AND saving a pallet vs Tenatcale Whip/Rush/Saw
etc
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I'm not a programmer so I cannot sit here and explain to you how that works. It's server-sided so on my screen, I avoided the hit. Whatever happens on the other side, could be fixed later. I won't explain something that I don't truly know. As long as the perk is working like it should, I have no complaints. I rarely get the scream after a hit that was negated but yes, it is annoying but I prefer that instead of seeing someone on the ground, exhausted who timed their DH correctly and got screwed. It's why DH has became anonymous with distance instead of avoiding an attack. I can definitely tell you that I was exhausted on the ground for months before this fix even when I timed it right and my ping was 50. Just like this, it'll take time to fix but it will be fixed.
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You don't need to be a programmer to provide an argument as to why you feel those scenarios are mechanically fair in a normal gameplay scenario.
If the DH is used and NOT validated (ie used slightly earlier, for example), these situations don't even occur and you get the normal phase through ability/counterplay/pallet break/etc.
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It needs disabled until balanced but BHVR cannot afford adequate servers. I quit.
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No you don't. Ping plays a big factor on a server. I have a ton of videos on YouTube where my DH activated, I got downed immediately afterwards then I ended up exhausted on the ground because I'm in the US and the killer was from Brazil or something. Hits were handled by killers but now its server-sided. Yes, it sucks when your hit gets denied but this way you know it wasn't supposed to hit. If it went through them still, it would lead back to the same issue from before. The server would probably have to figure out when the i-frames wore off. Hell, I don't think the survivor sees the hit land. I'll have to test it but I think it just shows the attack miss on the survivors' side. When it was on the killers' side, I know for a fact that I performed a dead hard and got hit no matter what. Just remove the sound of the hit. I don't believe it uses the successful attack animation wipe, but the missed animation CD so even if it was "invisible", nothing would change but the sound. It's literally the same as before.
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I am abandoning this discussion as it is fruitless.
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Hope you find someone who agrees with you then.
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DH is not getting disabled..
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Love how the bug with dead hard is the visual and audible feedback that the killer landed their hit when they actually didn't...yknow, cause the killer actually DID fairly land a hit, but the E button says no for absolutely no fair reason lmfao. fair fun n balanced : )
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Yeah, it's annoying as hell. It made me lose the chase on some occasions, thinking the survivor was down on the ground so I had time to use PGTW on a nearby gen before hooking them, only to discover the hit didn't connect after all.
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No, it didn't make you lose the chase. You didn't pay attention, just assumed that your hit did infact land, went and did other things, and only when you came back to pick up the body did you realize that the hit didn't land, lol. How can you blame the game for your complete lack of awareness? You can simply just take a split second to confirm that the survivor was indeed downed, rather than just assume that they were and go kick a gen.
@Haddix It's not a bug, it's how it has to work if hit validation is going to be a thing. Want that fixed? It's possible, but you won't like the solution. If you don't want the hit animation to play when it shouldn't, the devs could simply make it so that every time you click to swing your weapon, that info needs to be sent to the server, the server checks if that hit will actually land, send that info back to you, and only then does the animation play. That way, you'll never see the animation of you hitting a survivor ever again, when hit validation determined that it wasn't a hit. The downside ofc is that there'll be a noticeable lag every single time you try to swing your weapon. Does that sound better to you? Because that's the only way to fix it, since it's impossible for the server to predic the exact moment you will swing your weapon, and the survivor will trigger their dead hard. The visual/audio feedback as it is right now, is not a bug. It's simply what has to happen when hit validation is a thing. It takes time for information to be sent from the survivor and killers clients, be analyzed to figure out who was first, and send that info back to their respective clients, but animations play instantly when you press your button. The animation will always play what your client thinks will happen, but the outcome will be what the server decides happened, and the server will always make that decision slightly slower than your client does. What can be fixed, is cooldowns can be corrected to reflect what the cooldown of a missed hit should be, after the server decides that it was indeed a miss. They absolutely can and should fix that part.
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The way to fix it is to rework DH.
You're overexplaining it to me though, I know exactly what's happening. That's not my point. My point is that the perk itself is wildly unbalanced and it "working as intended" is a bad thing, and the hit validation not removing the feedback to the killer highlights the main issue with DH; that the killer deserved the ######### hit because they fairly got it. If a killer lands an attack on a Survivor, a completely free, easy to use safety blanket i-frames free distance maker shouldn't undo that.
DH is dumb and hit validation for it is bonkers insane for how stupid strong it is already.
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Based on your previous post, you infact didn't understand how it worked.
"the killer actually DID fairly land a hit, but the E button says no for absolutely no fair reason", No, your client thought you landed the hit, while in fact you didn't. All these years, you've thought you landed a hit, and since there were no checks, your client saying that it was a hit, meant that it was a hit, even when the survivor triggered their dead hard before you attacked. It has been very unfair for years, and now that it is fair, you complain and say that it's "wildly unbalanced".
Yes, the animations, audio, and cooldowns that happens when your client thinks that you hit someone, eventhough you didn't, are an issue, I'm not going to aruge that part. To some degree, I do sort of feel like dead hard should just be completely removed, simply because it is impossible to make it work propperly and without being janky. The only way for the perk to actually work as intended, and without triggering the wrong animations and audio, is if the devs somehow managed program a way for the servers to predict the future with 100% accuracy, so that the server knows exactly when you will swing and the survivor will Dead Hard. That is obviously impossible, so Dead Hard will forever either not work propperly, or be very janky. Neither is a good thing.
I'm on the side that doesn't mind Dead Hard being a thing neither as a killer or as a survivor, and I'm completely fine with how the perk is intended to work. However, since it can never fully work as intended, it will always be janky no matter what, I would prefer it if the perk was completely replaced with a perk of similar power, but which can work propperly.
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If that were true, then the pallet should be destroyed. But it wasn't.
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I'm just at this point quite frustrated by the people swearing it is not currently bugged and is supposed to do non-sensical things like have a special interaction with Nemesis that no other perk, power, item, or add on in the game has. Most of this seems to be from people being critically uninformed. It seems pointless to discuss this since so many people don't seem to get why the perk is bugged and they have little interest in learning it.
Then don't tell us that's what the killswitch is for if you're not gonna use it lol
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There’s no reason to disable it, yeah DH can be annoying but why disable it??
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Just nerf it but don’t kill it
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Because the stated point of kill switch was to disable bugged and broken things so we didn't have to deal with it. That's why they said they made the system. DH has been proven bugged numerous times over with various videos and explanations. People refusing to comprehend the issue is kind of irrelevant to me. The perk is bugged in a way that negatively impacts numerous killers. Why should they be forced to deal with it when killswitch was made for the reason we shouldn't have to deal with it?
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I blame the game for giving the indication that the survivor was hit, only to do a rollback when the ideal situation would obviously be not to give that indication in the first place. Imagine if a Call of Duty gave you hit indicators when you shoot at someone, only for nothing to happen.
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The main point from what I gather is not so much the missed hits that looked (and the killers client showed) as hits, as much as "if the killer missed the hit then their power should act as though it missed" such as the Nemesis pallet breaking issue.
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This is the crux of the issue I have with the perk now. If you (the survivor) are lucky and validate the killer, the perk is doing so much more than ever before. There are many given examples of situations where your power behaves differently with a normal dead hard than it does with a validated one. Nemesis is the best example because it's very black and white so it should be easy to understand. If Tier 2/3 Nemesis swings a tentacle at a downed pallet and no survivor is there, the pallet is meant to always break. If a survivor is hit, then it does not break. But with validation a situation occurs where neither the pallet breaks nor does the survivor get hit.
So it should be easy for people to see why others are saying it's bugged/not working right. Because it's a tough cookie to sell that the devs always meant for Nemesis tentacle to get negated by dead hard even though no other interaction in the game will cause that scenario of the tentacle doing nothing. Not even a normal non-validated dead hard. Now, Nemesis isn't even the worst affected, but the example of him is the easiest to explain. IMO Twins are utterly junked by this change.
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Well yeah, it would be ideal. But the killers and survivors clients can't send info to the server, then have the server decide who pushed their button first, and then have that info be sent back to the respective clients in 0 time. It's just not physically possible. This is the only way DH with hit verification can possibly function. Which is why I said it's very janky, and I don't like DH because of that, and that only. I don't think they should go back to old DH either, because it never worked propperly and there's so many times where survivors were exhausted on the floor, forced to wait out the CD even if they were healed, managed to wiggle off before they were hooked, or got flashlight saved. They need to replace it with some other different, but equally strong perk instead in my opinion. DH can never work propperly, and not be janky at the same time. It's one or the other, and therefore it should be completely replaced.
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Or they need to completely rework the game's reaction to hits to maintain a memory of what could have happened after every attack so when the server says "actually that wasn't a hit" the client can send the right information.
Which might wind up looking way more jank (and probably punish consoles even more in the CPU department)... but at least powers wouldn't disappear into the ether.
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They changed DS rightfully, but should have nerfed this OP perk to the ground as well. It should be token based, like 2 uses max in one trial. It's just too strong against most killers. There is no skill involved, to use it to make it to a pallet or window.
Imagine you could use sprint burst with one button press at will. Ridicoulus.
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You're explaining it to me again when I know exactly how it works and have already stated that. I understand that my hit wasn't registered because it now favors the server and not my client, "refunding" the hit but not the visual and audible feedback that I'd normally receive for landing the hit that my client believed I had landed. I'm not discussing the technical side of Dead Hard and how the validation works, I'm discussing the balance of Dead Hard and how the validation itself highlights the core balancing issue with Dead Hard; that the killer landed their hit, yet Dead Hard takes that away for no reason. The gameplay benefit that Dead Hard provides is to dodge hits that the killer otherwise landed for free OR to provide free distance to avoid giving the killer a chance to hit you in the first place, robbing your opponent of a hit when they actually deserved one and could've gotten if Dead Hard were not in play. The CONCEPT of the perk is extremely flawed and unbalanced, thus, Dead Hard working as intended is unfair, not the other way around. It was never unfair for killers to hit through Dead Hard because they deserved that hit anyway, as the Survivor was in a position to be struck by an attack and only got out of it due to a single button press that provides completely free iframes and distance. This flawed design is recognizable from both sides; I personally refuse to use it as Survivor as whenever I do, it gives me an unfair advantage to completely avoid a Killer's hit that I did nothing to deserve (I can outposition myself, make an awful play at a tile, misjudge my distance with the killer, and undo all of those mistakes with a single button press), and it's frustrating to face as Killer because it provides the Survivor with an ability to undo the work that the Killer put in to hit them. If there was a bug with old Prayer Beads, Omegablink Nurse, Iridescent Head, Mettle of Man, Pallet Vacuums, old Brand New Parts, etc, where they didn't work as intended, I wouldn't consider it being "unfair" as those things, when working as intended, are unfair themselves.
TLDR, My overall point is that I personally think a ton of work being put into Dead Hard's validation to always work properly by favoring the server yet keeping the killer's client from providing visual and audible feedback that they landed a hit is pointless when Dead Hard is what it is; an unfair perk designed 4.5 years ago that has gotten no real balance adjustments since its release.
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What? Also, it does use the missed attack animation if you land on a hit on a DH user.
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When the perk is (completely) working as intended: killer uses Nemesis tentacle, survivor dead hards, tentacle breaks pallet. Or Victor pounches, survivor dead hards, victor goes clean through them.
If it happens during hit registration, the killer's client stops the power from breaking the pallet (it thinks the survivor was hit) or stops victor moving (it thinks victor is attached). When the server says that it wasn't, the killer's client doesn't say "oh, then this would have happened", it just leaves the power not working.
That's not working as intended, because it means that DH still behaves differently depending on when it's used relative to ping. That's not good.
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Heads up - This argument has been brought up multiple times to the user you're replying to (you can look at the previous posts in the topic).
I'd suggest saving your time and keystrokes.
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I'm nothing if not stubborn.
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Boosts your post count at least, haha :3
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AH, thank you for explaining it better. Yeah, I don't think that's intended at all. They'll fix it but they only do patches every month and a half so it'll have to wait until then. They might already have it fixed, but I have no clue.
(edit: spelling mistake)
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If Nemesis attacks a Survivor with his tentacle, and the Survivor presses Dead Hard, they avoid the attack. However, the pallet does not break. If the pro-Dead Hard argument is "The validation means you never actually hit the Survivor", then the pallet should break.
But it doesn't.
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So a bit of recap and short explanations along with my opinions, hope they help:
- Dead Hard needed validation because the survivor being chased and the killer might not have the same connection stability, therefore the server now decides the outcome based on the first command it receives, the hit or the dead hard. In my opinion this is how it always should have been. I see some of you see it this way, but I don't understand what the others are complaining about, this is not a buff, it's simply punishing the players with a bad connection to the match. It happens to everyone, regardless of your usual connection stability.
- Despite the above, some have a valid complaint. The validation follow up is not the same as the scenario in which dead hard is used in due time and both players (the chased survivor and the killer) know what happened. I will explain using one of the two occurrences I saw being discussed most. If you are close to a pallet and a Nemesis tries to whip you, using dead hard shall prevent you from taking damage and the tentacle shall break the pallet (assuming both you and the pallet were in the whip's trajectory), essentially creating a "Miss" event. With validation however, neither happens, because paired with validation, dead hard completely negates certain damaging actions. This, of course, is a problem. I personally think they added unnecessary rules to the validation, using reversals or something different, rather than simply awarding immunity if dead hard was used first as decided by the server. I think this would also prevent the survivor from screaming for no reason, as the hit never happened, even though the attack did.(this is what I edited in the post, I felt it was important to make a clear difference between the attack and the hit as it seems they are the same thing in some scenarios).
- Some posts don't seem to fit quite well in this discussion as they twist from validation being a buff or not (it isn't), to dead hard's balancing. Simply put, this has nothing to do with the discussion that was started, just borrowed elements.
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It's not neutral though. It's in the survivors' favor. You're telling me that there's a problem with my connection that consistently? No, half these hits should be landing, not being rolled back because a survivor waited until after the hit connects to press Dead Hard.
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That is a valid point. I haven't seen a survivor use dead hard after throwing a pallet. Usually before only so I have never experienced that.
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I have never experienced that because I have never seen a person use DH while I have been killer after throwing a pallet lol but valid point. If that is happening, it should be fixed.
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Less "throwing a pallet" and more "they DH after vaulting the pallet or something".
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I usually hit them during the vault so they don't have time to DH. You can see it in my streams. That's probably why I haven't noticed it. I play killer differently from most, I guess.
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Dead Hard should work when you are healthy not injured.
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Just make it give endurance for like 2-3 secs instead of dashing
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Actually Dead Hard in its current state... ruins game experience of other survivors, who don't use it.
Killers having problems with dead hard are trying to figure general or personal approach to deal with that bugged thing.
And that mostly include:
Mindgames
More grabs
Instant takedowns
Faking lunge hits to trigger it early.
So, you guess how "FUN" is to face majority of Killers, even if not skilled enough, who try to counter DH... when you don't have it?
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