Survivor-Sided vs Killer-Sided Maps
Me and my friend (@Shdw_Void) were discussing what maps are traditionally Killer-sided versus which are traditionally Survivor-sided and we wanted to know your opinions. We spent about 5 hours on this, so I hope it's good lmao. I've included a stream of us discussing each map, so if you want our reasoning/justifications, you can watch it. We both have about 3K-4K hours.
We couldn't quite agree on Haddonfield vs Cowshed, he said he'll sleep on it, so we'll see. What do you all think of the maps in DBD?
Here's a brief breakdown in case the image is fuzzy or otherwise funky:
Very Killer-Sided ~ Shelter Woods and Aazarov's Resting Place.
Slightly Killer-Sided ~ Suffocation Pit, Coal Tower, Hawkins National Laboratory, Wrecker's Yard, The Pale Rose and Wretched Shop.
Neutral ~ Torment Creek, Father Campbell's Chapel and Family Residence.
Slightly Survivor-Sided ~ Mount Ormond Resort, Blood Lodge, Grim Pantry, Rancid Abattoir, Treatment Theatre, Temple of Purgation, Ironworks of Misery, The Thompson House, Sanctum of Wrath, Rotten Fields, Midwich Elementary, Badham Preschool I, Badham Preschool IV and Dead Dawg Saloon.
Very Survivor-Sided ~ Fractured Cowshed, Lampkin Lane, Disturbed Ward, Badham III, Racoon City Police Department, Groaning Storehouse, Badham V, Gas Heaven, Badham II, The Game and Mother's Dwelling.
here's the link to the stream:
Comments
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There is a point that the name of the map is easier to discern than tiny thumbnails.
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Me trying to actually see what maps these are from the tiny pics.
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The pic looks okay to me :(
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I can see all the thumbnails but they're too small for me to be certain what any of them are.
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I have no idea how to make it larger for you.
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Better 😂
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I added a typed description. It seems fine on my end, but I have been trying to make it larger, no luck.
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My experience with RPD was, that neither the killer nor the survivors know where the damn stairs to the second level are xd
Playing a Pig / Wraith with aura reading makes this map pretty auto-win for them.
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Yeah, but we just had to rate it generally. Couldn't say, "Well, Wraith with aura-reading is really good on RPD."
It's a miserable mistake of a map, but it's objectively good for one side.
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I generally agree with the list but i don't know if Coal Tower is really a bit killer sided, it's my favourite survivor map to play as, it is small but has consistent jungle gyms next to each other wich makes chases really long if the killer commits and if survivors know to run the loops greeding the pallets. I really feel that Father's Campbell and Family Residence are harder maps for survivor than Coal Tower, but maybe I'm a bit biased because i played Coal Tower a lot.
Oh and Dead Dawg Saloon i feel like it's a bit killer sided, It's a small map with not really that much to work with besides the gen in the main building wich you should just give up on defending.
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I think the best maps for killer are Dead Dawg and Midwich. These maps are incredible small and have super easy 3 gens to defend. Dead Dawg with that gallows area is a horrible offender because the only safe loop next to it is a shack with a breakable wall.
I'd only put Shelter Woods and Azarov's as slightly killer sided. The sheer size of these maps make them automatically hard for any killer without mobility.
Everything else I agree tbh. I think Haddonfield is worse than Cowshed because at least some killers can deal with all those safe loops on the latter.
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tier-list on maps always make me smile because I personally think they're wrong. I think almost every map in the game is survivor-sided. The main maps that are hard to discern are Dead dog saloon, Shelter woods, wrecker yard,wretched shop,father chapel, and azeroth resting place. they're probably least survivor sided maps.
Indoor maps can summarized in four words. Unsafe generators, unfair pallet design. they're lopsided maps. What makes them lopsided would take too many sentences to write.
They tend to have low kill-rate because they're hard maps for survivor to play because you need high degree of map knowledge, generator coordination and planned routing to win. I'd argue they're highest skill-cap ceiling maps for survivor.
The rest of the maps pretty auto-win for survivor. Badham, Haddonfield and Cowshed being worst offenders. They're mainly badly balanced for killer because of gen speed, holding-W and safe pallet design with safe tile design.
The map I always find funny in the listings that everyone seems to think is balanced is Coal tower. I think its because the map was one of the first maps in DBD to be invented and compare to original maps, it was weaker than rest. Its very survivor sided map, among top 10 survivor sided maps. The map itself before breakable walls had an infinity window and it can spawn 5 tile sets, some of which are horrendous for m1 killers such as T-L wall into T-L as well as Long-wall pallets facing into Long-wall Jungle gym windows and just many jungle gyms overall. It is also a map littered with pallets everywhere while being very big vertical for shift-w.
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I'm honestly curious how you could tell the difference between the badhams. What makes the layout of 2 and 5 stronger than the others?
Also, I'd put coal tower to killer sided, and suffocation pit and midwhich to neutral
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Well, tier thing depends a lot on which killer you play/verse, killer perks (especially Hex) and RNG so it's complicated but my opinion is:
I think all Autohaven maps are near Neutral ~ Slightly Killer Sided. I don't think Gas Heaven is Very Survivor Sided frankly.
One of Badham Preschool (I don't remember number correctly), the one Main building and Killer shack are very far away from each other (that you have to pass long middle road to go one another) is slightly weaker than other 4 Preschools in my opinion.
Torment Creek is definitely the weakest of all Coldwind maps, I do agree it's close to Neutral ~ Slightly Killer Sided. Sometimes there's nothing at the edge of Main Building except large straws.
I hesitate whether Grim Pantry is Slightly Survivor Sided or not. I get why you put there and not on Survivor Sided, as all generators except Main Building one can be very close to pressure. 2 gens near shack and usually 2 gens near the thing (the structure which is also on Pale Rose). Main Building is really strong but it is definitely not a choice to go because other gens are much easier to protect. Middle area gets really weak once pallets are gone and sometimes survivors can't loop through the cabin if the gen inside there doesn't get repaired. I think it's either Neutral or Slightly Killer Sided in my opinion.
The others I'd like to mention are Sanctum of Wrath, Dead Dawg Saloon, Midwich Elementary School and Racoon Police Department.
Sometimes Killer Shack in Sanctum and jungle gym combination can be dirty but I think it's Neutral. As main building is weak and most survivors don't know how to loop there and just run away from it.
DDS, I know many killers have to break some breakable walls but the map is significantly small and it is easy to guess where survivors spawned. Either Slightly or Killer Sided.
Midwich is Killer Sided in my opinion. Ruin can last longer than expect. No RNG on windows and pallets, however generators aren't, which takes some time for survivors to find generators. Survivors can straight hold W but I've seen many survivors who damage their teammates by going to where their teammates are.
Lastly, RPD is Neutral. I know there are some busted loops and god pallets but once pallets are broken wherever you go, chases end very easily. And complex map design often causes free 2nd hook stage and get rid of one person easily. It can be Slightly Survivor Sided too. Honestly depends on Survivors' knowledge.
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First of all, let me tell you that it warms my heart to see the pre-rework icons that you used, but it disheartens me to see that Léry's (my favorite map) is the only one that has a reworked icon :(
Second, here is mine:
It is pretty similar to yours, but there are one or two differences that I think it is worth looking at.
I know I am missing a few maps, but they are irrelevant since their ranking on my list would be the same as their ranking on yours. Also, this was done thinking about their reworked versions (which wasn't pleasant at all), so take that into account too.
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The different Badham's have different layouts. We went over them during the end part of the stream at around the 3 hour and 10 minute mark, iirc.
I argued for Midwich to be neutral, but there are more advantages for Survivor than Killer. The biggest thing Killer has on that map is its size. It's small, but the corridors let Survivors hold W very well and accentuate an already bad problem.
Suffocation Pit is another odd one. The main building really isn't strong anymore and there's maybe one good pallet on each side of the map. The middle is where most everything is at. It suffers from Aazarov's Syndrome, where it's incredibly easy to 3-gen as Killer and very hard to not 3 gen as Survivor. The reason it's not straight-up Killer-sided is because of the middle area being strong, but we didn't feel it was strong enough to outweigh the Killer advantages of basically only needing to play half the map.
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Interesting.
Otz did a pretty in-depth video on this too.
Haddonfield and Badham need a serious rework.
Out of interest - wouldn't you consider DDS to be killer sided? I know that it's one of my 'easy' maps on most killers.
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I think I can see the justification for all of these but could you explain Lery's?
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I would not. It is at the very bottom of Slightly Survivor-sided, nearly Neutral.
The main building and Shack are extremely strong when the walls are up, and breaking the walls costs you precious time that you may not have. Even without the walls, the entire front portion of the map is pretty good for Survivor. The thing that keeps it even is the ability to hold a 3-gen sort of behind the Gallows. It's desolate back there and that's what keeps it almost neutral for us.
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I’m so glad someone agrees with me that Dead Dawg isn’t killer sided. All the breakable walls and safe structure in that big line of buildings makes it hard for killers to catch good survivors. Not sure how Otz thought this map was the most killer sided.
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He likely weighs the desolate back portion of the map behind the Gallows very heavily. It isn't difficult to hold a 3-gen back there and the map isn't huge.
That's about all I see.
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Yeah those are redeeming factors for killers but all those safe structures just can’t make it the most killer sided map imo.
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As a general point I'd move almost everything down a level or 2.
Generally almost all the ones called "slightly killer sided" are just nearly balanced or "neutral" maps. Shelter Woods I would not call killer sided as it's extremely killer dependent. You got something like Blight then sure killer sided, but most any m1 killer without map pressure or mobility (which is most) and you're gonna have a bad time with hold W game play. Multiple "slightly survivor sided" I'd move down to heavily survivor sided as well.
As a general point I'd say like 5% of the maps are killer sided, 80% survivor sided and like 15% somewhat balanced.
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We actually went through all the Autohaven maps, so you can totally watch and see our thought processes, they are near the beginning.
Yes, we ranked Badham IV as the weakest of the Badham's.
Grim Pantry still has a very strong main building, plus Shack and a decently strong side building.
We had Sanctum of Wrath closer to Neutral because both sides have benefits. It's like a fatter version of Aazarov's without a chokepoint in the middle. It's fairly wide and somewhat difficult to 3-gen on.
Dead Dawg's main building is actually insane. The front street-side of the map is also super good and there are 3 walls you MUST break.
Midwich is miserable for everyone, but it favors Survivors because it accentuates the problem with the strength of holding W. The pallets are okay, but you can see the Killer from a mile away and you can get around 35-45 seconds just by running away.
RPD has the issues of every indoor map but also the issues of Mother's Dwelling. It's huge, the gens are indefensible and you either have to deal with a god loop or with multiple god pallets depending on the side you pick to defend.
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Interesting tier list, and I'd agree on everything except Midwich, which to me is neutral. Also maybe move Pale Rose down to neutral, although I hate swamp so that might be why I think such.
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Léry's is very unpredictable and it is easy to approach a Survivor from pretty much any direction you desire. Gens can also be a bit though to find.
Not to mention that it was Old Freddy's best map, so this has an effect on my opinion :)
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It still has two guaranteed god pallets, plus the window's are very easy to chain together.
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That actually depends on the layout that you got.
Sometimes your window will chain with other windows, or it can chain with absolutely nothing.
The pallets, which can be only be used once, are always there tho.
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Huh.
I almost always have easier matches on DDS. It's not a big deal for me to break the two 'key' walls (the one in the bedroom especially) in passing and as long as I'm willing to give up two specific gens, I can usually win a war of attrition even in hard games by forcing a very easy 3-gen.
That said, I'm probably playing at a somewhat lower MMR than you are. It could well be that better survivors handle this map differently.
Lery's is RNG central.
Some games I completely flatten them. Some games I get three strong vaults into that bloody office area and every survivor will run directly there, and I'll get 4-outed.
It's also a misery to play on ranged killers.
I find RPD to be a nightmare on either side. I've died on hook because people weren't sure how to reach me. I've also had an office spawn as a 'House of Pain' with an absolutely unstoppable loop.
Midwich I love. Visually, it's brilliant. I've never had issues playing killer on it either. The gates are absurdly easy to defend.
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I have no idea what your MMR is, so I'm uncomfortable making that assumption.
Lery's sucks on Console too. The FPS is garbo.
Oh, yeah, if you find the RPD part of the stream we both agree that RPD is a miserable mistake of a map. It sucks for everyone but Survivors either have one side with meh pallets but an infinite or multiple god pallets but meh vaults.
Midwich, Dead Dawg and Haddonfield were our maps of contention. @Shdw_Void wanted Dead Dawg in slightly Slightly Killer-sided or Neutral, I wanted it in Slightly Survivor-sided. He gave me that one. I wanted Midwich in Neutral, he wanted it in Slightly Survivor-sided, so I gave him that one.
I think Cowshed is worse than Haddonfield, he wasn't so sure.
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I'd say low intermediate on my 'bad' killers, intermediate on my 'good' killers, probably slowly getting towards high-intermediate on Cenobite, Hag and Plague.
Haddonfield and certain variants of Badham can be literally impossible for some killers if they get the perfect 'House of Pain' RNG - I've had miserable games where survivors just SB or DH over to that and there isn't much I can do. I remember one video where a survivor ran Otz in that loop for over 6 minutes just to BM at 1 gen left just to BM, and he was playing Nemesis (an anti-loop killer).
What really fries me on Badham is that sometimes I can have a survivor downed and be literally unable to hook them.
Cowshed...it depends. It's an awful, awful map, but at least I can sometimes force a pseudo-3gen or get a decent hook spawn and proxy.
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