Boons Are Killers Second Objective And That’s A Good Thing
Just like how survivors have to to bones for noed killers have to do bones for boons.
And dont comment killers have to worry about patrolling, loops, kicking gens, keeping pressure, hooking etc etc we don’t have time to do bones.
Cause I’ll comment survivors don’t have time to worry about 5 totems getting done we have to loop, do gens, unhook, heal, open gates etc etc
Comments
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That's generally true, but there are still some problems with boon totems as they stand. A lot of the time a totem can be in a spot that would take far too much of a killer's time to snuff, for instance- triply so if it's on a separate floor to the one that the chase is happening on.
Circle of Healing is also far, far too strong, but that's separate from boon totems as a general mechanic.
Overall, I definitely do agree that the intended back-and-forth of boon totems is a very good addition to the game, they just need a little more polishing to remove the problem areas.
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1 v 4
there is a difference.
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I don’t mind how Boons are snuffed and placed. They just need to make sure the individual Boon perks are balanced around that system. Circle of Healing is probably a bit too strong currently, for instance, so it could use a Healing speed adjustment. But that can be done without changing the overall placing and snuffing mechanics.
I also agree that a killer having a secondary objective is in principle a good thing, it makes the game more interesting. Again, though, the secondary objectives have to have their individual rewards balanced against the time it takes to achieve them. If finding and snuffing totems takes too much time away from the main objective of downing survivors then it’s not worth the effort. If it turned out that the time spent in general for snuffing an arbitrary Boon is too long then I would be ok with, say, making Boons louder so they’re easier to find and snuff in order to cut down that time spent doing it. I have no evidence one way or another, though, that snuffing totems takes too long or doesn’t.
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I think they're a change to the monotony of how Killer usually "counter's" Perks. Zone-control requiring the Killer to move to the zone to snuff it. But I don't think it's a true secondary objective as it's not available to do at all times during The Trial.
With Dull Totems Survivors have the "secondary Objective" of denying NOED and getting BP, but Killers can't interact with Totems whatsoever unless a Survivor brings a Boon and uses it. So unless you hear the thunder, there is no reason whatsoever to care about Totems.
I'm not saying that is a bad thing (if it sounds like it), but I wouldn't classify it as a Secondary Objective. (at least compared to Totems in general).
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Killers can't do bones, only snuff them. If the totem were destroyed in the process it would be fine, because a survivor who know a totem spawn couldn't boon it again and again and spend time looking for a new totem.
Killers don't have aura reading for totem aside his hexes, only a sound feedback.
Killers don't need a second objetive because the gens speeds fly.
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Oof.
Okay, I disagree completely.
There is 1 killer.
There are 4 survivors.
The time of the killer, assuming everyone is alive, is at a 4x premium (assuming both roles are equally demanding - they aren't). Thus, if it takes you 14 seconds to make a boon and me 10 seconds to find and snuff it, you're ahead of the game.
Plus, you can resummon it.
It's a perk with almost no risk and no counterplay.
CoH also stacks far too aggressively with other healing abilities/
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Sure, a secondary objective that can never be permanently completed and is instead a game of whack-a-mole.
It's a 4v1 thing. Survivors have more time to do separate objectives because there are more of them. They can multitask and progress several objectives at once.
So yeah, I'll comment that the killer has way too many things to do to babysit totems - or at the very least, the totem babysitting is not a good addition. Especially at higher MMR where survivors are extremely efficient and killers have no time to waste whatsoever.
(Also, getting 5 totems done on the survivor side is usually a bad idea - too much time wasted for potentially no reason. You're far better off noting where totems are and then checking them if NOED spawns.)
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This is flawed reasoning.
Survivors have time to do bones, killers do not.
Survivor objective time is roughly 3-5min, killers is 10-20min.
Killers are on a time crunch, survivors are not.
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So what about that?
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Scott has gone over this on his YouTube about survivor and killer time I suggest watching it
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Scotts video backs up what StarLost said, I think you need to go rewatch it.
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Here is the issue though, if you're not a killer who uses totems very often, you're probably not going to find them in a worthwhile amount of time. It would be nice if killers could have a visual indication that they are in a zone effected by a boon totem because directional audio isn't the greatest in dbd.
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If I recall, he's saying pretty much what I'm saying.
Also: Argument from Authority. Minus 2000 BP.
A lot of other streamers (Otz, Tofu) also agree - CoH is too strong in terms of stacking and there is little purpose in hunting for them as you lose more time than it takes to pop a new one up.
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Comparison doesn't really work when you consider that only one Survivor has to loop at a time. Healing is not an absolute necessity against most Killers (Plus with circle of healing, heals take relatively little time if the totem is in a good spot). Only a max of two Survivors can be opening gates at any given time. The only truly apt comparison is gens, but even then, you can still have two people doing gens while one is chased and the other is totem hunting.
On the flip side, the Killer is just a single player. They can't split up objectives between teammates. If there is a strong Hex, then that can be taken care of by a single Survivor, leaving everyone else free to do what they need to do. If there is a strong boon at play, then the Killer must dedicate their time to kick it. If the boon is poorly placed then that's not a problem, but Survivors can pick and choose where they want their boons. Meaning that the Killer might have to go out of their way to snuff it out. Even if they do snuff it, the Survivor can immediately go and replace it if they wish. So yeah, I get where you're coming from, but the comparison just straight up doesn't work at all.
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that would be a fun game mode 4v16
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there are a huge amount of differences between Boons and Hexes, they are hardly even comparable.
the most glaring one: this is a 1 v 4 game. the one player that has to go up against 4 at the same time has much less free time on their hands to just run around to do totems, cause if this one person ever drops the pressure on the other four, they lose the game in that instant. on the contrary, its entirely possible for the four people to occupy the single player, progress their main objective AND work on the secondary objective at the exact same time.
however, there is another one that i think is of equal imprtance: cleansing totems is limited to doing it five times (a Hex gets cleansed once and thats it for that Perk) - snuffing out boons is infinite. Survivors can get rid of all totems by putting a little time into them 5 times a trial - the Killer on the other hand has no way to get rid of them permanently, because Survivors can always just rebless them.
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Why looking for boon when it's way more legit to camp one person on the hook and make sure he got no chance to run and heal at CoH field?
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I honestly am in the minority and think boons aren’t that problematic. Only nerf is like to see is COH lose self healing and it would be fine.
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I'd nerf CoH to 2-3 health bars and make the self healing way longer
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Looping, opening chests and healing aren't essential to win a game as a Survivor. You only have 3 objectives while Killers have 5+, also it's a 4v1 so if you can't do 5 bones, you and your team suck
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So if i kick 5 boon survivor wont be able to use the perk again
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Killers don't "do bones". They snuff them but survivors put them back on anyway shortly after. I'd be fine with doing bones if getting rid of them was actually a risk survivors would have to take.
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This is something I'm starting to realize as I play more - killer perks are very interactive. They have risks, counterplays and complexities and can change my playstyle up completely.
Survivor perks, with maybe 3 or 4 exceptions are very bland. They have almost no risks or decision making aspects to them.
It's why I really struggle to play much survivor, and while it's relaxing it can also feel like a chore.
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If they did that then gens would have to take longer.
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Survivors have had infinite loops maps, infinite boons, stretch screen, bnp/flashlights, pallet city maps, comms+swf, unbreakable+DS+DH+B.T.. No challenge to play survivor well imho.
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Yup. Boons right now are so good, and so much better than Hexes, that totems now feel like survivors' belongings instead of killers'. Killers have to sacrifice 1/4 of their build with Thrill/Haunted/Undying just trying to get use out of a hex perk, while survivors have to sacrifice only 1/16 or 2/16 out of their perks to get an immense value.
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100% ! A killer needs just to find and snuff the boon totem, while the 3 others killers are chasing the unique survivor.
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wow...couldnt you be more wrong and entitled?
Killers dont need more objectives added to their already overblown listo f things to do, boons where "supousedly" to be a second objective for survivors, not killers, can you be even more wrong already?
Survivors can do bones because they can bless or destroy, something killers cant, from the get go you clearly dont understand the most basic diference betwen both.
Except they have to do all those things while keeping in check 4 diferent players doing all the forementioned things, clearly someone doesnt understand the concept of 4 V 1.
Survivors have to worry about doing gens, ocationally doing bones and be chased most of the time 1 by 1.
Honestly dude, you clearly dont know what you are talking at all, stop embarrasing yourself.
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A killer already has 4 objectives, why do they need another one?
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Why does a different logic apply to Boons?
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No one has to touch the totems if the don't want to. But the consequences are different. If you leave the totems alone as survivor, then there's a chance that the other team gets a buff in the last minutes of the match, and a chance that nothing happens. If you leave the boon totems as killer, the other team automatically gets a buff for the whole match.
I think the boon totems would be more balanced if they benefited the killer in some way, or if survivors had more of a risk/reward choice about using them. Currently, from the killer player's POV, hexes are just as easily destroyed as ever, and now there's another downside, too.
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Killers can't do bones the effort is temporary, with boons in play its a never ending objective unlike a hex. Reason cleansing works with survivors is there are 4 players for 5 totems with the luxury of determining the length of the match.
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Boons certainly make my gameplay decisions easier at high MMR.
"Boons go down, Tent goes up"
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I second this heavily.
also, coh and shadowstep against someone with hearing issues is just a win on a platter.
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no to mention from the get go, the chiming sound the boons make its laguably soft, unless you are at least around 9 meters from them you arent going to heard them at all, hell, a half done generator sound easily eats the boons, lets not even add to the mix the grunts of survivors, atack sounds of killers or the chase music...boons arent easy to find at all unless you are actively looking for them combing the area
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yeah.
I'm of the opinion that until the sound is fixed, you should be able to see their aura while within the aoe.
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Not unless they have shadow step, otherwise, I could care less if they want to go and heal against a Leatherface.
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Just make it like the scourge hook power of Pinhead. Once the killer is within 15m of them the aura is revealed to them, because half the time I cant hear them over the ambient sounds killers make. Have you heard how noisy Demo Puppy is when he is walking around.
When snuffing a Boon the totem should be broken in the process. As it stands right now the Artists new Hex is pointless because no one is breaking totems anymore.
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they should be usable only one time without using them again and again
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You do realize the killer is only one person, while there are 4 survivors to keep track of what they have to keep track of?
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Because they think boons being ranged makes up for it, it really doesn't since survivors will run to their boon and then be fine in 3 seconds and go back to objectives.
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Do Bones for killers is invalid because Boons can be re blessed. Pretty easy rebuttal to your argument.
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Boons as "secondary Objective"?
Lore wise - it's Entity's realm, guess who's control over the trials must be all powerful... but for some reason it's not.
3-4 medkits + 2 boons = "ez gg".
There should be a hard limit on how many times boons are snuffed. And that limit must be punishing.
Like "when killer snuff boon totem, that totem is locked for 2 minutes".
Or "if killer snuff 4 totems, survivor trying to bless next one is instantly sacrificed near the end of the process". Some devious music should play last few seconds before process of blessings are completed (just an audio warning, the last chance to stop abusing the boons).
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Bones. BONES for everyone ! Isnt that great ?
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If you don't have time to do bones as survivor, then why are so many survivors calling for a secondary objective?
You don't have time to do bones, how are you gonna complete a new secondary objective then? 🤷🏼♂️
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boons, or more specifically boon circle of healing is a terrible underthought mechanic. that just encourages more of the killer roster to camp and tunnel because COH stupidly destroys all of the m1 killers who's entire gameplay relies on them themselves being thing that slows down and keeps pressure on the survivors by spreading damage around and keeping pressure.
a decent enough hag requires her to be able to have multiple phantasm traps around the map to spread m1 damage, this encourages to hop from chase to chase to make the most of her power. now with 12 second healing on everyone and soon whatever boon unbreakable is called. doing that will actually lose her games, because the time it takes to make the traps and hop and cooldown for it then for her to hop onto another, is actually longer than the time it takes for the survivor to undo that damage.
this just encourages her to camp and tunnel the first person she downs, because with camping and tunneling it doesn't matter if the survivors keep healing themselves.
with twins this is even worse. because to play them you need to spread damage between charlotte and victor, so that you can down and shepard the survivor into either one of you. this is a big problem, when for half of that 12 seconds it takes to heal or pick yourself up, victor cannot do anything, you can't even switch over to charlotte during that whole cooldown. then once the 6 seconds are up, charlotte has to wake up from her idle state, get unslowed, then lumber her way over to the downed person which could take even more time.
if playing twins normally wasn't so bad this wouldn't be a big deal. but they have so many bad quality of life issues and jankiness that makes playing like that unviable and very inconsistent.
with the coh meta, twins simply just lazily fall back into camping and tunneling, something that they traggically are still fairly decent at doing.
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You can't really compare that, just play killer on high level and then play survivor on high level. Killer games are constant stress and trying to make right decisions for 10 minutes while high level survivor play has some breaks in it where you just wait for a bar to fill up.
It's ok like that, it will never be any different because it's a 4v1, there are 2 roles for a reason for different gameplay experiences. But still it's not the same, killer is already stressful enough while there is only one survivor getting chased with 3 others chilling on gens or totems and healing...
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sounds legit actually. Maybe make it so that snuffing them takes some seconds longer, like 5 or so, but then survivors can only use it once per match. This way it gets more skillful, survivors have to look out for good spots and not just the first totem they see (or the same one every time).
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Survivors needed a second objective, but instead the killers got one. This is a second objective done wrong. Survivors have to spend time to get boons, yes, but the benefits are so good it doesn't matter. It's like gens where you do them and they don't really get you anything. Boons are huge for the team. The killer has a lose-lose situation because of them, because if you snuff the boon, you've wasted time, and if you don't snuff, the team gets a boost all game.
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More than 1 or 2 boons is actually counter productive for survivors IMO.
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