In case you guys missed: Redshell Spyware is secretly used in DbD

Satsui
Satsui Member Posts: 142
edited June 2018 in General Discussions

I would like to kindly ask the devs to remove the spyware Redshell, or at the very least present an option to opt out of it.

I find this unacceptable, especially in light of the recent GPDR changes.

Relevant links:

Steam Forums thread: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1694923613869972615/
Relevant thread on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/8pud8b/psa_red_shell_spyware_holy_potatoes_were_in_space/

Thank you.

EDIT:

RedShell planned to be removed with 2.0

Source:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/2994/redshell-in-dead-by-daylight/p1?new=1

Post edited by Satsui on
«1

Comments

  • Runiver
    Runiver Member Posts: 2,095

    Just checked the files. It's indeed in the game's folder.
    Guess I'll report it to steam since I'm not sure they allow this kind of procedures.

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    I would like to say that I am dissapointed but I would be lying if I said that I didn't expect it.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144
    edited June 2018
    Wow

    Just when I was praising them they go and pull this ######### on us.

    Come on BHVR.
  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    Also after diging in the steam forum thread it as been quite a while that they used it.

    I found this thread that date from december of last year by someone that couldn't lauch the game because of a probleme related to redshell.dll => https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/9/2906376154322412067/

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445

    I can only encourage everyone to report this game on steam for violating the laws.
    If you live in the EU, you can claim the EU-GDPR.
    Data mining, such as redshell does, has to offer an opt-out option.

    Since it obviously doesnt contain this option, behaviour could be in big trouble at least in the EU.

    I reported this game on steam by using the flag on the shop-site and also reported the case to the privacy officer of the local government. I'm curious to see where this will lead and will keep you guys informed.

  • SadonicShadow
    SadonicShadow Member Posts: 1,146

    C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Dead by Daylight\DeadByDaylight\Binaries\Win64

    Yup there it is.

  • RepliCant
    RepliCant Member Posts: 1,436
    edited June 2018

    My guess this is utilized for improvement on the game itself. The assumption that all of your personal data requires to use to them is present. It's more tended to use intel such as hardware, GPU, CPU and similar stuff regarding tech. It can be used for gathering more than needed data though, and that's not okay.

    Although, players need to be informed as it's against the GPDR itself. Or not used at all.

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    The fact that it isn't explicitly mentionned that it is used, what it collect and that their no way to opt out make it against the GDPR

    The dev could literally get in legal trouble because of it.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    Brady said:

    My guess this is utilized for improve moment on the game itself. The assumption that all of your personal data requires to use to them is present. It's more tended to use intel such as hardware, GPU, CPU and similar stuff regarding tech. It can be used for gathering more than needed data though, and that's not okay.

    Although, players need to be informed as it's against the GPDR itself. Or not used at all.

    If you check redshell's website you will recognize that your words are not more than a wish...

    This game will continue a real money shop very soon which will make data mining even more problematically. I guess the devs have been to busy counting money and forgot that many, many people in EU play their game.
  • FSB75
    FSB75 Member Posts: 474

    Apathy walks into a bar.
    Looks over at the bartender and say, "Ehh, I don't care".
    And walks out.

    No seriously....I'm one of those people that care just enough to say they don't care about it.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    FSB75 said:

    Apathy walks into a bar.
    Looks over at the bartender and say, "Ehh, I don't care".
    And walks out.

    No seriously....I'm one of those people that care just enough to say they don't care about it.


    If you care or not doesnt change anything since there are laws. 
  • jester
    jester Member Posts: 31

    Maybe let them explain before rushing to report the game???? If you enjoyed playing the game- why jump to conclusions and report it when they haven't had a chance to speak on this issue?

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    jester said:

    Maybe let them explain before rushing to report the game???? If you enjoyed playing the game- why jump to conclusions and report it when they haven't had a chance to speak on this issue?


    I still remember how they handled the killer power swamp glitch on their holiday while the community was literally on fire.
  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    here's a quote from someone on reddit that explain what is redshell and explain how it break the GDPR EU law .

    https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/8q1365/dead_by_daylight_is_using_redshell_spyware/e0fubg7

  • WinWIn63
    WinWIn63 Member Posts: 23

    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

  • BlooBoo
    BlooBoo Member Posts: 10

    @WinWIn63 said:
    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

    Hello,

    If they don't respond it simply means they are a shady business and they should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
    I am still unsure if we can take legal action on the matter.

    Regards,

    Bloo

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    BlooBoo said:

    @WinWIn63 said:
    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

    Hello,

    If they don't respond it simply means they are a shady business and they should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
    I am still unsure if we can take legal action on the matter.

    Regards,

    Bloo

    Depends on where you live.
  • GolgiNea
    GolgiNea Member Posts: 157

    I'm just gonna put this out there... I understand everyones concern with this and dissagree with it completely! But google is ALWAYS listening... Everything comes with strings attached nowadays :(

  • BlooBoo
    BlooBoo Member Posts: 10

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    BlooBoo said:

    @WinWIn63 said:

    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

    Hello,

    If they don't respond it simply means they are a shady business and they should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.

    I am still unsure if we can take legal action on the matter.

    Regards,

    Bloo

    Depends on where you live.

    Hello,

    I reside within the EU so I should be able to.
    I am not an expert on legal matter so I would need help with it.

    Regards,

    Bloo

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    BlooBoo said:

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    BlooBoo said:

    @WinWIn63 said:

    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

    Hello,

    If they don't respond it simply means they are a shady business and they should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.

    I am still unsure if we can take legal action on the matter.

    Regards,

    Bloo

    Depends on where you live.

    Hello,

    I reside within the EU so I should be able to.
    I am not an expert on legal matter so I would need help with it.

    Regards,

    Bloo

    In the EU each country has to have privacy officers. They are the people of choice regarding any topic of data security. In germany we can submit online report of violations so they take care.
  • Swiftblade131
    Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 2,050

    Hm, fascinating. What else can we find? It's like finding treasure in a sandbox.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    GolgiNea said:

    I'm just gonna put this out there... I understand everyones concern with this and dissagree with it completely! But google is ALWAYS listening... Everything comes with strings attached nowadays :(

    I also disagree with some laws but still i have to care if i dont want to get in trouble.
  • Thatbrownmonster
    Thatbrownmonster Member Posts: 1,640

    Anyone can explain to a stupid person like me what this does?

    I visited their website and what do they do is keep track of what websites I go to?
    I am confused

  • WinWIn63
    WinWIn63 Member Posts: 23
    edited June 2018

    @Thatbrownmonster said:
    Anyone can explain to a stupid person like me what this does?

    I visited their website and what do they do is keep track of what websites I go to?
    I am confused

    It collects your information
    everything

    Web browsing data,
    computer data, ip address etc.
    purchasing, seling,.. everything
    data mining as well.

  • WinWIn63
    WinWIn63 Member Posts: 23

    so This is really bad!

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874
    edited June 2018

    @WinWIn63 said:

    @Thatbrownmonster said:
    Anyone can explain to a stupid person like me what this does?

    I visited their website and what do they do is keep track of what websites I go to?
    I am confused

    It collects your information
    everything

    Web browsing data,
    computer data, ip address etc.
    purchasing, seling,.. everything
    data mining as well.

    It go as far as collecting the font you have installed on your computer to make a digital inprint of you so they can recognize you on any website or software.

  • BlooBoo
    BlooBoo Member Posts: 10

    Hello,

    The following information is located at https://redshell.io/privacy-policy

    Regards,

    Bloo

    Players Information We Collect
    Customers that use our Services to track the use of their game will provide us with information regarding the characteristics and activities of their Players, including information regarding game purchase activity and in-game events such as DLC purchases. Red Shell obtains this information as a result of data being sent to our servers from our SDK in a Player’s game. The data collected by the SDK includes information such as IP address, SDK version, anonymized User ID, timestamp, Developer API Key, OS version, screen resolution, timezone, system language, installed fonts, installed web browsers, and in-game events. Player’s data collected by the Red Shell platform is presented to our Customers to analyze the performance of their marketing and the performance of their game.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930

    “Ugh PC is WAY better! Why’d you get it on PS4 what’s wrong with you? PC will never have any problems ps4 won’t!” Well where are those people now eh?

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874
    edited June 2018

    @Jack11803 said:
    “Ugh PC is WAY better! Why’d you get it on PS4 what’s wrong with you? PC will never have any problems ps4 won’t!” Well where are those people now eh?

    Redshell is also on the consol version but it is true that there is far less sencitive information that can get fished out by it on consol

  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    @RemoveSWF It wasn't there at the start.
    Some antivirus consider it as a virus and block it, preventing game that use it to run.
    It must have been hadded somewhere in october since it's around that time that the first complain on the steam forum about game not running because of a problem with redshell.dll as been posted.

  • Jack11803
    Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,930
    edited June 2018

    @Dragonredking said:

    @Jack11803 said:
    “Ugh PC is WAY better! Why’d you get it on PS4 what’s wrong with you? PC will never have any problems ps4 won’t!” Well where are those people now eh?

    Redshell is also on the consol version but it is true that there is far less sencitive information that can get fished out by it.

    Yup, not like I use the butt-cheek-tier browser on the PS4, when I can just use my phone.

  • jester
    jester Member Posts: 31

    Oh, I see. I didn't realize the extent/severity of the issue. Thanks for explaining!

    @RemoveSWF said:

    @jester said:
    Maybe let them explain before rushing to report the game???? If you enjoyed playing the game- why jump to conclusions and report it when they haven't had a chance to speak on this issue?

    This spyware has probably been in the game since release. BHVR had two years to remove it and they didn't. This wasn't an accident and they're not sorry, they're just scared because they got caught.

    BHVR are the bosses of this community and act like egomaniacs when confronted by regular players - arbitrary and overzealous bans, condescending replies and ignoring legitimate issues. They can afford to act this way because the complaints won't significantly affect their income.

    BHVR will listen to Steam. They HAVE to. Steam can pressure them in ways we can't. If they're innocent, they have nothing to worry about.

  • Thatbrownmonster
    Thatbrownmonster Member Posts: 1,640

    @Dragonredking

    how dare them to steal my font!!

    kidding aside but I've read in the steam forums that we accepted that this would happen to us by accepting the EULA

  • BlooBoo
    BlooBoo Member Posts: 10

    @Thatbrownmonster said:
    @Dragonredking

    how dare them to steal my font!!

    kidding aside but I've read in the steam forums that we accepted that this would happen to us by accepting the EULA

    Hello,

    As explained before it takes much more information than your fonts.
    The fact that they do NOT tell us they do this and that we have no option to opt-out of it makes this illegal and we, as users, will NOT tolerate it.

    Regards,

    Bloo

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    Thatbrownmonster said:

    @Dragonredking

    how dare them to steal my font!!

    kidding aside but I've read in the steam forums that we accepted that this would happen to us by accepting the EULA

    EULA was fine back in the days. Meanwhile this business is against the laws (talking about EU). I can offer my own terms of service for my customers but those TOS are just invalid if they are illegal.
  • onark
    onark Member Posts: 105

    Just opt out
    https://redshell.io/optout

  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @onark said:
    Just opt out
    https://redshell.io/optout

    You have to use this email address to opt out of the in game tracking system. Since the 1st 1 is only for web based games.

    privacy@redshell.io

  • Peanits
    Peanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 7,523

    Update: See here.
    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/2994/redshell-in-dead-by-daylight/p1?new=1

  • RepliCant
    RepliCant Member Posts: 1,436
    edited June 2018

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

    They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    Brady said:

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

    They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

    Whos data is stored on my PC if not mine?
  • powerbats
    powerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    Brady said:

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

    They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

    Whos data is stored on my PC if not mine?

    If you want to get all technical there's all the programs data owned by other companies on your pc. But private data should only be used with your knowledge and permission.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    powerbats said:

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    Brady said:

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

    They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

    Whos data is stored on my PC if not mine?

    If you want to get all technical there's all the programs data owned by other companies on your pc. But private data should only be used with your knowledge and permission.

    He said it is not my private data being taken. So it must be this other companies data.
    Very interesting....
  • RepliCant
    RepliCant Member Posts: 1,436

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    powerbats said:

    @Infinity_Bored said:

    Brady said:

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

    Whos data is stored on my PC if not mine?

    If you want to get all technical there's all the programs data owned by other companies on your pc. But private data should only be used with your knowledge and permission.

    He said it is not my private data being taken. So it must be this other companies data.
    Very interesting....

    Private data would be considered things such as photos, documented files such as .docx and along those lines.

    Data such an programs and hardware Intel exist and can be obtained through the spyware. It's probably more intended for improvements on gameplay (Regarding GPU + CPU, etc) than using your resume files or your vacation photos and even your browser history. None of that has any remote use nor would they ever care to take a look at.

    If for whatever reason they were to even release any type of personal information (which will never be the case) it is illegal and legal action would be necessary and prompted.

    Once more though, your private information serves 0 purpose to about 99.8 % of the population. Unless you got some pretty folder filled with photos of murdered victims... Lol

  • Doomsaki
    Doomsaki Member Posts: 152

    @BlooBoo said:

    @WinWIn63 said:
    Devs dont want to Reply on this THREAD? explain what is this?

    Hello,

    If they don't respond it simply means they are a shady business and they should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.
    I am still unsure if we can take legal action on the matter.

    Regards,

    Bloo

    Its the weekend.

  • Infinity_Bored
    Infinity_Bored Member Posts: 445
    Brady said:

    @Infinity_Bored said:
    powerbats said:

    @Infinity_Bored said:

    Brady said:

    Again, you're all assuming that it's your personal data being taken and that it's somehow useful, it isn't.

They removed it now. You're worries are gone.

    Whos data is stored on my PC if not mine?

    If you want to get all technical there's all the programs data owned by other companies on your pc. But private data should only be used with your knowledge and permission.

    He said it is not my private data being taken. So it must be this other companies data.
    Very interesting....

    Private data would be considered things such as photos, documented files such as .docx and along those lines.

    Data such an programs and hardware Intel exist and can be obtained through the spyware. It's probably more intended for improvements on gameplay (Regarding GPU + CPU, etc) than using your resume files or your vacation photos and even your browser history. None of that has any remote use nor would they ever care to take a look at.

    If for whatever reason they were to even release any type of personal information (which will never be the case) it is illegal and legal action would be necessary and prompted.

    Once more though, your private information serves 0 purpose to about 99.8 % of the population. Unless you got some pretty folder filled with photos of murdered victims... Lol

    So other people define my privacy. Thanks but NO.
  • RagingCalm
    RagingCalm Member Posts: 408

    Not one thread .. BUT TWO! TWO OF THEM!?!?!?!?
    My god, you guys need to do your research. I won't link it for you this time, I am requesting that you actually look it up yourself. In your searchbar, type something like "Redshell - gamers" or "what is redshell used for."
    This program simply gives BHVR feedback on the best ways to advertise DbD, so that people buying the game in the future know what DbD is and do not buy it thinking it is the new COD 7 or World of Warcraft 5.

  • weirdkid5
    weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,144
    RagingCalm said:

    Not one thread .. BUT TWO! TWO OF THEM!?!?!?!?
    My god, you guys need to do your research. I won't link it for you this time, I am requesting that you actually look it up yourself. In your searchbar, type something like "Redshell - gamers" or "what is redshell used for."
    This program simply gives BHVR feedback on the best ways to advertise DbD, so that people buying the game in the future know what DbD is and do not buy it thinking it is the new COD 7 or World of Warcraft 5.

    What part of "violates EU law" dont you get? Lol
  • RagingCalm
    RagingCalm Member Posts: 408

    @weirdkid5 the law has about 30 days before it takes effect, though. So having Redshell right now is not against the law, and they are removing it with 2.0.0 to meet that 30 day deadline.