Are There Any Plans to Improve the "Fun" Aspect of the Game at High MMR?

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Pulsar
Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735

I'd like to get some form of official response, so, I'm sorry for the tag but do you think you could see if there's an answer @MandyTalk?

I'd just like to know because I'm pretty damn close to quitting. If there's hope that the team is aware of things and are working on a solution to make the game more fun and enjoyable for everyone at high MMR, I can tough it out.

If the team has no plans to change anything there though, I'd like to be made aware so that I can quit for my own mental health's sake. 95% of matches are totally miserable.

I think I've only been playing because I believed that the game was going to get better. Whether it be promises of 60 FPS or improved gameplay, I stuck around. Now though? 60 FPS obviously isn't coming and the gameplay is worse than ever.

I'd just like to know if it's worth sticking around. Thank you.

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Comments

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,913
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    Not really sure anything can be done. Most people probably aren't even playing at high MMR. This would make the game even more unfun.

  • FreshCoal
    FreshCoal Member Posts: 174
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    Personally I also think that all 4 survivors should spawn together and the killer would get a killer instinct notification where the survivors spawn at the beginning of the match. I also think that either decisive strike or some other anti-tunnel perk needs to be basekit, along with Kindred.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 5,905
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    I would hope that shaking up the formula could do something, and I'd be very willing to try it, but I'm afraid that it'd backfire and between comms and learned spawn locations, you'd get the same problem as before - coordinated teams can blitz through that stage and then gens fly faster than ever. Still, trying something new could help pinpoint where to make changes even if it doesn't pan out, so it's a good idea to try out.

    Top MMR games are problematic because they're essentially maximum efficiency and there is zero flexibility in how to play them - meta slavery on both sides, killers shackled to hard tunneling and camping, and survivors versing the same three killers every game because no one else is remotely viable. Changing the objective around would be something, but I'm not sure it addresses the root of the problem. SBMM makes it so that you always get max-intensity matches at a certain point. Previously red ranks were a mixed bag, and rank 1 survivors meant anywhere from moderately competent randoms to a 4-stack with 20k hours between them. Same went for killers. That had its own problems (the moderately competent randoms got stomped quite a bit), but while those players are in a better spot now, the top players are stuck in a sweatfest that barely resembles the rest of the game at all - or maybe just the worst of it. You have to play an extremely specific version of the game, one that doesn't especially allow for creativity or fun, and matchmaking won't put you anywhere else. It's relentless.

    So. I'm sincerely hoping the answer to this question is yes, but I haven't seen much evidence that BHVR considers top-level play when it comes to game balance.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266
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    Yes.

    80sec Gen. Split 80sec into 10sec collecting 10charge of Gas, 10sec putting 10charge of Gas into Gen. Gen can hold 10charge maximum, requires 20charge to complete 40sec repairing. Repair Gen can only do Solo.

    So if you do Gen alone, it goes like this: collect Gas (10s), put Gas to Gen (10s), do Gen (20s), collect Gas (10s), put Gas to Gen (10s), do Gen (20s). It still requires 80s total, but the travel increase the actual time.

    Killer can not regress Gen anymore though, but if he M1 on any survivor who carrying Gas, they instantly drop the Gas and they have to collect Gas again. Killer kick Gen also make Gen deplete Gas.

    This simple fix is likely to make Killer prefers to injure multiple survivors to make them drop Gas, rather than tunneling.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,913
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    What would you do to fix the problems that wouldn't affect low mmr? I'd be fine with that.

  • selflessnea
    selflessnea Member Posts: 565
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    I mean you can technically play fun builds. All while lowering your overall mmr allowing your fun builds to actually be viable.

  • selflessnea
    selflessnea Member Posts: 565
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    I mean it sounds like you want your build to stomp people at the top level.

    Also your games should theoretically revolve around you doing decent a few, having a good few, and you getting beat. You wouldn't necessarily stomp everyone once you got low enough.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
    edited November 2021
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    Please, read my post again and tell me where I say anything about winning.

    There is victory in loss if I can find something to learn. Winning isn't the issue. Enjoyment of the match is.


    And, at the risk of sounding like an arrogant ass, I would stomp 99% of players if my MMR were lower.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    MMR is invisible number. How do you all define your MMR as high or low?

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    The harsh reality is that they do not care about high mmr. If they did, they would have balanced the game or at least started even if we are a few months late. Lol.


    The thing people do not understand is that killer is genuinely ludicrously broken at low mmr. Seriously. Any killer buffs would eviscerate the new player experience. And nobody is offering constructive advice on how to address that issue.


    I actually feel bad for them because some devs just do nothing and ignore problems for the sake of it. But I believe the issue here is that they need to have this tug of war philosophy to try and please the largest group possible and every change throws that into chaos, so they spend more time trying to stabilize it. No excuses for stupid changes like Deathslinger's nerfs, why they waste their time on stuff like that is beyond me. However, there is more to it than most people are willing to admit.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
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    Personally I go by the efficiency of my teammates or the enemy survivors paired with their in-game hours.

    If I see excessive co-ordination like body blocking, well executed BT swarm plays, taking killer agro, saving death hook teammates, and especially if ~4 gens gone within 5 minutes on top of all of that, that's all usually a good indicator of high MMR.

    Never hurts the theory when the survivors have 2-8k hours of game time either.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    Did I get it right? You lose against good players. And you keep playing against good players over and over. And your MMR not going down to comfortable niche with equal opponents.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976
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    Why wait for a response?

    If the game is miserable for you then quit or take a break. You don't need to play it to keep an eye on any changes that happen.

    Mcote's quote of play civ is often used as a meme but is in general great advice.

    A step back is all it needs.

    I always have a game i can play outside of dbd and at most play 3 matches a day and i can't remember the last time i felt truelly miserable in this game.

    Most of the frustration in this game is self induced. If you keep playing while being frustrated already it shouldn't come as a surprise that the experience is going to be miserable.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    Somewhat.

    These people are closest to me in skill. The issue is that the tactics I use and the way I play is extremely stressful and draining and most certainly unfun.

    I'd be cool with playing at high MMR if they, idk, made it fun?

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,913
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    Just play for fun instead of trying to get kills. Your MMR will drop as well.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    If it stressful you should probably change your win condition. For example get 4 stacks of BBQ and over 25k bp. It doesn't mean you should not aim to 4k. Just make killing survivors your secondary objective.

    If you not having fun for securing kills by slugging/camping/tunneling, you should probably look for fun in chases and interesting ways to play killer. Like crossmap hatchets as Huntress or distant Victor pounces as Twins. Try M2 only Hillbilly or M2 only Nemesis. You can find guilty pleasure in securing head pop as Pig. Some killers have game changing addons that open different side of gameplay.

    I mean you can find your own Fun in game.

  • kaeru
    kaeru Member Posts: 1,568
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    If 4 kills is winning for you, you can slug at 5 gens and get 4 hooks - 4 kills while having 4 strongest slowdown perks. If it's fun for you I don't see the problem.

  • Suzzys_Secretary
    Suzzys_Secretary Member Posts: 46
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    You may want to define when fun is achieved for you? Was it fun when playing killer as 4k+ Hours vs 4x survivors with 100-500 hours playtime opponents? What sbmm has achieved and mentioned by the devs in their Q&A was to prevent the stomp games. As you said yourself you have to lower your mmr in order to get stressfree matches. So what is fun then? This is a highly subjective topic so i would love to hear your definition of what fun is. This might help the devs understand rather than "Make the game fun for me".

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    Well, for one, that won’t work against a good group since they will be able to get the pick up or bring UB. For another, optimal play is boring. Against a high ranking group, killer is forced to get a hook and camp. The fun part of the game, chasing, isn’t viable to do against the whole team because of gen speeds and tile setups. BHVR can do much better than this.

  • Underdawg
    Underdawg Member Posts: 193
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    Fun is what you make of it (within reasonable parameters). The game provides you an experience. If that experience is no longer fun, or the way you play is no longer fun - change the way you play or stop playing. I'm not trying to sound mean, but you can't expect people to make you have fun.

  • lav3
    lav3 Member Posts: 758
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    I don't get why people are so edgy and conservative for expected "balance" problem when high MMR is the most unbalanced system for killers in this game. And saying "Just play for fun." and "You're just sweaty and not enjoying the game" is realliy out of topic.

    Honestly I would discard this MMR first.

  • JawsIsTheNextKiller
    JawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,360
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    A working MMR should separate the new/bad players from the best players. This part of the MMR is "mostly" working and I hope the devs contine to refine it. The problem is that at high MMR, organised survivors against most killers just win. They don't have to play really well, they can afford to make mistakes and it won't affect the outcome.

    I hope the devs are monitoring the performance of the game at the top level and can come up with some balance changes that will address this. They could do it with some adjustments to the survivor meta perks, adjustments to gen regression or even start buffing solos to lessen the SWF advantage to make the balancing easier.

    If the better killers players stop playing killer, that means that less skilled players then have to face these survivors. Then they will quit too.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    Depends on what you are defining normal as.

    If you are defining it as "what I experience most often in my matches" then normal is taking one chase and watching 2-3 gens pop.

    If you are talking about what normal should be, then normal should be being able to enjoy the most fun, engaging and skillful part of the game (chases) without having to think "I've been chasing this Survivor for 25 seconds, their gonna pop 2 or more gens on me, then I'll have to camp or tunnel someone out."

  • thebrentster911
    thebrentster911 Member Posts: 55
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    Man, this is depressing to read about and all the comments.

    I'm still newish, and I keep thinking "when I put more hours in and learn and develop my skills as killer/survivor, the game will be more fun".

    It seems like the more you play and higher your MMR goes, the less enjoyment you'll have.

  • Alphasoul05
    Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 601
    edited November 2021
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    You can't label a game a 'survivor party game' then have one ranked mode, then add MMR (which was never in the equation in terms of game balance) and then proceed to not balance the game where balance matters most. The reason games balance from the top down is because the things with the biggest impact really only effect those at the top, and the ones at the bottom won't really "feel" the nerfs because a bad player using DH is vastly different than a good one if DH was nerfed, for example.

    But when 95% of your playerbase is in the casual/new player category, then it doesn't really matter about those at the top, even if you could balance the game, why go through all that effort if you don't have to? So long as your target audience is still flowing.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,136
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    It's going to be really difficult to make 'fun' and 'high MMR' in any way compatible. Given enough time, players will optimise the fun out of a game.


    Best thing to do, IMO, is make a bunch of 'mandatory' perks baseline. Innate gen regression perks and innate anti-camp, anti-tunnel, anti-slug.

  • Labrac
    Labrac Applicant Posts: 1,285
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    Adding "skill" based matchmaking on a game filled with unskillful things was a mistake.

  • nostrada96ass
    nostrada96ass Member Posts: 257
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    If there is a 2:8 game mode I think most people would play that

    other games benchmarked dbd many times and tried varius game modes

  • Nathan13
    Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,647
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    I probably should know the answer to this, but can you tell me what is making most of your matches miserable?

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,531
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    MMR is why I quit the game. They took 1 year to make a worse system and think it’s great

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,735
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    So playing as Killer?

    Well, not being able to chase Survivors without multiple gens popping is very unfun. Chases are where I get to show my skill.

    Seeing my hits revoked is pretty unfortunate and unfun too.

    Seeing Survivors who live to BM is pretty gross. Idk, I could go on and on about either side tbh