General Discussions
General Discussions
Why aren’t new killers allowed to be strong?
Comments
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Because we're apparently not allowed to have nice things. Pinhead wasn't that great of a killer, but he still got nerfed. And, as much as I hate to say it, Artist will probably be nerfed if she performs well.
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I don't want to be one of those people that are like "hrrrngg, the developers are biased towards survivors, its not fair, reeeeeeeeee", but it does sometimes feel like there is a discrepancy between the dev's willingness to make survivor perks strong and their willingness to make perks strong. This kinda mindset is really visible when you compare the perks No Way Out and Boon: Circle of Healing. I remember on one of the occasions where they buffed No Way Out the dev notes said something about them being scared to release the perk in too strong of a state, but after seeing how it performed, they become more comfortable with buffing the numbers. Meanwhile while Boon: Circle of Healing, there's none of that and it's just "yes, a 90% buff to healing speed seems perfectly reasonable". It's a little weird to me.
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I hope VHS does well, I just can’t see them being up there with DBD. Maybe i’ll be wrong though. I would buy the game if it was on console.
Also look at NHL
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I'm pretty sure VHS is going to be free when it releases, which is already a huge advantage over dbd. Additionally, VHS is a deathmatch, so both teams objectives are to kill each other, unlike dbd where the killer tries to stop survivors from doing things by killing them. So it's an entirely different experience, but the fact that you can take your time and focus on combat without having to worry about objectives passing you by too fast makes it seem much more preferable to DBD right now.
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BHVR really likes to pretend like SWFs aren't a problem or have no impact on the game's balancing. They'll fiercely defend the right for people to play with their friends (which is fair), but they refuse to acknowledge the massive performance gap that creates between solo players, or how much more difficult it is for killers to perform against skilled teams with perfect information versus skilled teams with no information. When they balance killers against solos, the intended gameplay bracket, killers get absolutely screwed versus comms.
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True, the absurdity of it was laid plain to me last night. I saw two people had similar names and the same character, two possibly unrelated survivors and two flashlights so I brought an Ebony Mori just in case it was a bully squad. It wasn't, it was a 2 man SWF and two solos I think but they played normally so I played normally for me (I alternate hooks and just slug the survivor instead of hooking twice in a row unless they Tbag which is when I tunnel). I got 6 hooks, slugged two of the weaker members a couple of times and hooked everyone at least once for BBQ stacks.
One person said it was too bad I didn't see the Mori animation in post game chat (just friendly discussion, not trash talk) and I said I wouldn't have used it on their group anyway since they were fun and cool to play against.
That's when I thought of the absurdity of how the killer is bringing items to help them in case the killer is being bullied by the survivors. In the horror genre, doesn't that seem absurd?
Solo survivors generally can't bully since their MMR isn't high enough. SWFs can because voice coms makes a 1100 MMR survivor far more effective than they would be in solo queue. I think BHVR needs to bring in a multiplier to MMR for survivors in parties to take this into account and that could help eliminate some of the issues.
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I was not refering to your average killer who comes to the forums and complain about survivors on these forums. Check SupaAlf (twitch or Google searches) nurse main whom is one of the few you can categorize as someone who knows how to play killer and mastered the killer. But most nurse Malins here are not even close.
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Add handicaps when the game knows the killer is versing a swf, % movement speed, extra gen stuff like that.
It could be balanced. Most games have a solo queue and a join as party function, or set a maximum in a party.
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We already seen this with Plague where allowing the killer's power to be controlled by survivors is a bad idea. That's unfortunately the problem with Pinhead. He becomes a glorified 1v1 killer with weak anti-loop capabilities once survivors control the box.
Honestly, a lot of the weaker killers deserve buffs to parts of their kits that feel clunky or weak. If bhvr decided to move away from the Hold W Meta, we could get some stronger killers.
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Honestly, EVERY killer needs some kind of 1v4 mechanic. Something to make survivors do anything other than sit on gens when one of their friends is being chased.
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Absolutely, and it has to be something that isn't able to be controlled by survivors.
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wow, still left anyone talk like this nurse is slower than survivors
nurse was nerfed because she was faster than anyone and wall through
still nurse is fastest in chase distance, still faster than 4.6 killers and its insane at theory
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She's literally slower than survivors by default and the only killer that is, meaning she is a design anomaly. How the ######### did you manage to miss my point so badly.
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I repeat, statistically, nurse has the lowest kill rate of every single killer. Hell, even Nea has a higher kill rate.
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Solo IS a disadvantage. Did bhvr something? Put a totem counter in small game?
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you're kidding right? it should always be 50/50 chance of out mindgaming each other. that's what makes the game fun. with these new w killers the game is incredibly boring and feels very unfair to get "outplayed" by questionable hits over pallets and windows. the only way to win is genrushing and that is just boring as hell. god we miss the old days when chases were actually exciting and fair.
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It's okay for killers to have powers that allow them to beat loops if they play well. Crying you can't run every killer like they are a powerless m1 killer is going to ruin the game.
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Mind gaming loops is important yes, but it should only get you so far and only temporarily extend a chase, not have the ability to run a killer for 5 gens. At the end of the day this is a 4v1 game, the 1 is supposed to be stronger by default and the 4 are meant to be weaker individually, it’s only by coming together they should have a chance at escaping
If the each member of the 4 is just as strong as the 1 then what would be the point in playing the 1? Especially against a good team who can just bully you all game
I think sometimes people forget this is meant to be an asymmetric horror game against a viscous/ supernatural killer
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Camping and tunneling is fine
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Buff nurse so her kill rate im sure is down 2k
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Blight is strong and he isn't exactly old.
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"god we miss the old days when chases were actually exciting and fair" You mean the days where we had infinites, double pallets and vacuums? Yeah, totally fair.
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Doesn’t have =/= can achieve 90-95% kill rate
I REPEAT most will never reach that mastery.
Even BHVR pointed out your flawed logic in their last Q&A (check YouTube)
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Because its not fun for the survivors
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So by your logic, my overwhelming high escape rate (80-90%) translates to survivors being OP.
Thank you for confirming.
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I mean...Pinhead is quite strong. It's wild to me that people think he isn't good
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Because killer is survivor's toy. That's how the game is designed. A new killer just means "oh cool, new things to dodge / loop".
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The results of every 1v1 interaction can't be 50/50, because the game is asymmetric. While this 1v1 is going on, 3 people are off doing other things.
If everything is weighted to be 50/50, there's good odds of that one player monopolising the killer's attention whilst everyone else plays gen m1 simulator, and I can't imagine that's fun for the rest of the players either. Killer loses, 3 people do nothing but gens, but one person won their coinflip Scooby Doo chases several times and is the only player that enjoyed anything?
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The answer is quite simple it's because it's not " fun " for survivors.
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Yeh, darn Nea almost killed me earlier with her clicky clicky. But then I realized she just wanted attention, so I gave it to her. RIP clicky clicky
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Imagine complaining about killers having counterplay lmfao. Either that or show survivors a killer so they can pick a counter build. Your choise.
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I think survivors should be able to have some sort of counterplay, but taking away the killer power with little effort is just a no for me
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Your opinion is probably very unpopular.
Losing isn't as fun as winning so you wouldn't want to have a game where it is very likely a side will win and the other will lose.
Unless you change what "winning" means for survivors
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I don't even think Plague is a good comparison. She's a beast when she gets her fountains going, but if survivors deny her her power, then everyone is permanently broken and extremely easy to track by sound and sight. She benefits either way.
Pinhead without chain hunts is a sad mess of a killer who takes all the precision of Nurse for all the power of Clown.
It'd be fantastic if we could see some touchups to underperforming killers, but the killers that are in a bad state aren't always going to be the ones that get tweaked; the data doesn't line up perfectly with realistic performance.
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Plague embodies what built-in counterplay to a power should be in my opinion. If everyone totally ignores it, they're playing a very dangerous game and handing over information, but she's relying on M1's. If one person doesn't ignore it, 3 people are potentially in a very bad situation. And if everyone cleanses, it's wasted time and given her more tools.
Pinhead's got none of the tradeoffs. You go for the box. You have to be an idiot to not go for the box. The box is even weaponisable against him without much work, you just go somewhere with a nasty loop away from gens, and the spawn conditions will generally favour genless areas over time. The supposed downside of box-hunting is also bad for Pinhead.
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