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Monstrous Shrine should become a Scourge Hook perk.
Current Monstrous Shrine does literally nothing. It's penalty to luck is multiplicative and almost non existant... and it's penalty for failed unhooking attempts is literally NON EXISTANT. Without MS a survivor can attempt to unhook themselves 3 times... with MS it is still 3 attempts...
New Monstrous Shrine:
Your fervent care of the Hooks has aroused The Entity's interest. At the start of the Trial, 4 random Hooks and Basement Hooks are changed into Scourge Hooks:
Each time a Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, the following effects apply:
- Accelerates Sacrifice Progression by 3/4/5 %.
- Decreases Self-Unhook chances by 5/10/15 %.
- Increases Self-Unhook penalty by 3/6/9 %.
These effects are doubled for the Basement Hooks (Other Scourge Hook perk effects are not doubled)
With this change other Scourge Hook perks could be used with basement hooks as well and inside of actual basement the penalties would be big enough to shave off one self unhook attempt. I would also like to see the Chances of self unhook to affect the total luck a survivor has now (for example if they have Deliverance on, their 100% chance would be decreased to 85% or 70% in the Basement, which is still almost guaranteed with two attempts, but is now an actual gamble). This would work with Up the Ante and luck offerings as well.
I did cut the Entity progression bonus by half so it is not OP in the basement, but it still has minor effect on the Scourge Hooks outside of it.
Monstrous Shrine should become a Scourge Hook perk. 30 votes
20 votes
4 votes
6 votes
Comments
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@CowabungaDude Why?
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Other
The problem with Monstrous Shrine is that it encourages camping. That's why it's effects are so underwhelming. Camping is probably the least interactive way to play killer.
That's why I want Monstrous Shrine to get the following change or something like it.
Your fervent care of the Hooks has aroused The Entity's favor. Whenever a survivor is hooked in the basement, the entity blesses you with inhuman speed and strength.
Gain 20/25/30% increased speed to break actions.
Gain 10/15/20% increased vault speed.
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Good idea
That and basement hooks should just be Scourge hooks by default
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Bad idea
Bad idea unless Bubba gets reworked first, because it would make camping even more efficient
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@CowabungaDude @FFirebrandd So survivors having perks to increase the speed of finishing their objective (repairing generators - literally the least fun and interactive activity in game) is fine, but Killer having one perk like this is not?
Is there actual reason for it or just double standards? I'm not attacking, just want to know where you are coming from.
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@Leonardo1ita Kindred
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Good idea
would have to come with a few changes though, like not activating if the killer is within say 16 meters maybe, would need some playtesting to find a sweet spot. Also, basement hooks should become scourge hooks base kit for all the scourge perks.
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Other
To be honest, most of the perks that make Gens faster kinda suck, and I would be very happy if Prove Thyself, the only one that doesn't got nerfed to 10%.
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Bad idea
Kindred doesn't stop Bubba from camping, also you shouldn't be forced to use a perk in solo imo.
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Other
This would be good if it also punished camping, speeding up kills while camping only incentivizes lazy and uninteresting gameplay
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Other
I think Monstrous Shrine should be reworked all together.
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@Awkward_Fiend How would you describe Proove Thyself or Fast Track then?
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@CowabungaDude Excuse me? Proove Thyself? Resilience? Spine Chill? Fast Track? Stake out? Toolboxes?
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Good idea
I’ve been making a similar suggestion, except replace the totally useless “reduce the chance of self escapes” effects with something that’s actually useful. The one I like is
Monstrous Shrine
- All basement hooks count as additional Scourge Hooks
- You can always see the auras of the basement hooks
- (Some other minor effect like inflicting a condition of rescued survivors or rescuing survivors or making rescues take slightly longer)
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@CowabungaDude If you think that Prove thyself, Resilience or Spine Chill are not strong perks then I don't think we have much to talk about xD.
My argument still stands, survivors do have perks to speed up their objective, while killers don't, no matter if you think they are strong or not.
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Other
Prove Thyself and Fast Track allow the survivors to get objectives done fast in the same way that Infectious allows killers to snowball fast. If you think that those perks are the issue though, you'd (mostly) be mistaken, it's perks like Circle of Healing and the Built to Last + Charge addon Commodious that are the problem.
Infectious Fright, Starstruck, Devour Hope, and most other snowball perks allow the killer to speed up their objectives (instadowns and / or reliable chase chaining). It's not as clear cut as a raw gen speed boost, but it's still a potent boost. Also Prove, Resilience, and Spine chill are definitely strong perks. Also perks to speed up hook states, despite being the most comparable to gen speeds, would be busted, even as a scourge hook.
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Other
Prove and Resilience are pretty good gen repair (and the latter helps in chase) perks, and Spine Chill helps a lot in Solo Q, just not on gens.
Fast Track is a surprisingly good perk, because assuming you get to the point where there's been 6 hooks, that's roughly 1/20th of the total objective that's done as soon as you get a great skill check, and at the point where getting an extra boost would be the most beneficial (the three gen). The main downside is that it does require that your team is capable of not getting snowballed. It's not as good as the first 2 perks, but it's still good.
Toolboxes, although not perks, are still pretty nutty. Especially considering that they're separate from perks AND that you can augment them using Built to Last to make them even more insane. A Commodious (16s gen time) + Wire Spool (6s)+ BNP (20s) + Built to Last is truly insane. Although that problem is mostly just BNP and Built to Last, the Commodious is still a bit much on its own considering there's no downside whatsoever for using it, especially since Circle's used every game nowadays anyway so medkits aren't as useful.
Stake out's still a joke.
One problem that seems to plague killer players is that the majority of survivors time-savers are passive effects (Toolbox time saves, Fast Track Stacks, Prove Thyself), meanwhile the only passive killer perks I can think of are Corrupt, No Way Out and Deadlock.
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Good idea
The scourge hook idea is good but I don't think it should favour the basement. My suggested rework to your rework:
At the start of the Trial, 2/3/4 random Hooks and Basement Hooks are changed into Scourge Hooks:
- The Auras of Scourge Hooks are revealed to you in white.
Each time a Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, the following effects apply:
- Accelerates Sacrifice Progression by 10%.
- Decreases Self-Unhook chances by 25%.
- Increases Self-Unhook penalty by 20%.
NOTES:
The Sacrifice Process takes 120 seconds, assuming the survivor hits all their skill checks, so Monstrous shrine would make the sacrifice process take 12 less seconds if they stayed on the hook till they died. Not unreasonable.
If the survivor is not running any luck perks they have a 4% chance of escaping. Monstrous shrine would lower it to 3%. It works even better if they run deliverance turning it to 75% as you said.
Failed Self-Unhooks take away 20 seconds. Monstrous shrine would make it 24 seconds, meaning they were 12 seconds into stage 2 if they tried to escape 3 times or would lower the amount of times they could escape is they left it too long. It wouldn't be enough to shave off one self unhook attempt right from the start of the sacrifice though.
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How about "Whenever a survivor is hooked in the basement, Sacrifice Progression speed is increased by x% for every y meters between the killer and the hook."
It would have to be fast enough to be worth it. If I go to the literal opposite edge, the person should be dying fast enough to force survivors to make a decision.
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