Killer & survivor mains, why do you think the game is killer & survivor sided?
The title says it all.
Comments
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Why man? You couldn't find enough of these arguments on every single thread?
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I'm a killer main. Survivor sided... mostly because of how Circle of Healing and Dead Hard are right now. Though... the weird nerfs to Deathslinger, and the upcoming ones to Twins and Nemesis sure don't help.
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Survivor main here.
I think the game is currently balanced as far as things the actual characters can do. The main thing that isn't balanced are some maps that most people will admit are more survivor sided than killer, except for a few killer sided maps. Boons wouldn't be a problem if killers can traverse the map better and DH would be more manageable for killers if loops weren't so strong or as close to each other.
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Are there even that many killer sided maps anymore? Hawkins is gone. The Game got reworked and isn't anymore. The only 2 I can think of is Shelter Woods unless its a stealth killer and Dead Dawg which... is kind of debatable. Maybe Azarov's is if you're willing to ignore half the map.
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I’m both sides. I think DBD is crybaby sided considering anyone who cries like a baby on either side gets the unnecessary changes that unbalanced the game even more.
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Midwich is for Nurse and Doctor since it compliments their power really well. RPD is disgusting with Pig, though yea, it sucks for both sides, though, probably more for other killers since it's so huge. Also, remember I said "a few", so that can technically mean 2 😅
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When the game is 1v4 and killers get nerfed to be worse in 1v1 against an average skill survivor, the priorities of the game are not where they need to be. A majority of killers do not have 1v4 powers. They have 1v1 powers. Making them worse at that makes the fact that they're outnumbered compound worse and worse as average player skill level goes up.
Is the game hard for brand new survivors? Absolutely. The tutorial, even the new one with the bots, does a very bad job explaining core game concepts like vault speeds, looping, tile strength, and evasive movement. The problem is that rather than demanding more from survivors, it is all too often the case that killers are brought lower to make them easier to deal with.
The game is being balanced around the bottom and when you do that, it feels less rewarding, powerful, and fun to play as a killer.
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That's a fair point. I feel like it's less there's maps that are *killer sided* and more that there are maps that favor certain killers. Like Lerys is great for Myers or other stealth killers but garbage for Blight and Billy. Mobility and ranged killers maybe like Rotten Fields but it's terrible for anybody else.
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Tried playing both
And definitely, survivor sided Between the map issues, the dev's responses to most issues, the perk meta of DS DH UB and now with COH, the lack of viability for most killer, and the patches equating to more nerfs than buffs for killers all around and vice versa for survivors I'm surprised to see people saying the game is balanced.
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Id say dead dawg for very few killers cause most have had problems with that map but most of the time it's another medium to large map that unless you have map pressure available you're screwed
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It's actually smaller than average. The issue is that the main building is really strong so how good it is depends on how good the Killer is at keeping chases away from that building. Especially since the rest of the map is... meh at best for loops.
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To some yeah but others not so much because for some reason they thought why not have a vault and pallets right next to each other with out much room to do anything with it or in some cases just have debris that make it a problem to even hit someone (mainly for ranged killers)
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I believe the game is survivor sided, when played at a high level vs competent teams of people who are actually trying to win. Coordination, good teammates, and perks like Dead Hard, Circle of Healing, Adrenaline, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, etc. all can stack together for some devastating results (and special shoutout to Prove Thyself for being the bane of my existence).
However, I also accept that games like this rarely happen in public lobbies, and a majority of my matches have finally returned to being chill where I can relax, perform well, and not need to sweat while trying my best to ensure everyone has fun and leaves with bloodpoints. It's also a lot better than it has been before during some times I've been playing- Circle of Healing may be frustrating, but it has nothing on old double pallets, pallet vaccuum, exhaustion recovery while running, old DS, old Object, and the God loops (and some Infinite loops) that used to exist. The game is definitely in a more balanced state than it was like three years ago (holy ######### i've been playing this game for five years help me), but there's still progress to be made.
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Well, IMO:
The game is killer sided if you're playing solo. As much as people say that good solo's can wreck a killer, which is true, from my pov this rarely happens. Especially considering SBMM now which sometimes puts 4000 hour survivors with 10 hours ones just because the experienced one died a lot in a row.
Now, if we're talking about survivor sided, I think it is SWF surv sided. And I don't even think I need to explain that. If I want to play with efficiency and help my average Solo team, I literally put kindred and Bond in my build, which at some extent is literally free for SWF's on their Discord call. So I literally lose two perk slots just so I can have some info about what the hell my team is actually doing, whereas the discord group has all that and can use more meta perks in the build.
Now, also considering the "tunneling/Camp meta" that it seems to be happening now, again, solo's are the ones suffering more from it. You don't have the coordination and the info about what your team perks are, and once again, SWF's can be way more prepared in those situations than a bunch of people gathered ramdonly.
And all this situation about solos/swf features leads to discussions like: "Pinhead is way more dangerous against uncoordinated solos and weak against SWF's"
So, I guess a lot of people have this in mind as well but for me it goes like this:
SWF's > Killer > Solo survivor
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I play both sides and in my experience the game is more survivor sided than it has been in a while. My killer matches have gotten harder and my survivor matches have gotten easier. This shift lined up with the introduction of boom totems and SBMM, so it’s pretty clear what changes have made the game more survivor sided.
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SWF } Killer } Solo
SWF and Solo are 2 different games. You can't put those in the same category
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I think that competent survs have advantage over competent killers, even solos. If they are focused on the objective.
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I don't
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Killer sided if you have 4000+ hours, you are versed with every single killer and you play against solos.
In the rest of the cases, survivor sided.
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The game itself is not either sided.
Individual matches can be sided depending on each persons loadout however.
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Your title post a question and also an answer in it. Very nice
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I do think the game is survivor sided at high level. I think this is the case because I saw tournaments and I saw the exhibition matches from teams who demolished Killers who are otherwise quit competent.
I also think the game is killer sided at the lowest level. The Killers job is easier to understand than the survivors job and many new survivors are struggle with looping, doing generators, knowing where Hex: Ruin can spawn and other fundamentals.
In the mid level it is not "balanced" but you get a mixed bag. This is where I am and why I actually enjoy SBMM: I get Killers who are better then me and who are a real danger, I get survivors who are potatoes and where I as a Killer can capitalize on the weak link. With the Rank system I only got survivors who were above my level as an example. Now it is a 50/50 which is fine.
This is not to say that there are balancing issues on both sides: Prove Thyself, Hex: Ruin, Dead Hard, NoeD, Medi Kits, SoloQ survivors ... there is plenty of stuff that is unbalanced and needs some changes but both sides have that.
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I play both sides.
This game is heavily survivor sided. Survivors have a lot of strong perks to use (Dead Hard, Circle Of Healing, Borrowed Time, etc.), While killers are given nothing to good/strong work with. Killers get nerfed for being "too strong" (Deathslinger and Hillbilly are prime examples of this), killer addons get nerfed for even being decent (Just look at the upcoming nerfs for Clown and Nemesis's addons), and most maps are in the survivors favor (Huge, large amount of pallets/windows/breakable walls, strong loops, etc.).
The current Boon/gen rush meta doesn't help, either. The killer has no chance, even with gen slowdown perks.
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Overall, the game is balanced. It's in it's second most balanced state it's ever been, even with Boons, validation, SBMM etc..
Now, overall Killer balance doesn't mean that every Killer is balanced. Nurse and Blight are the best Killers in the game right now, every game for them will be balanced, Nurse even stomps 90% of the time. Even for A tier Killers, like Oni, Plague, Huntress etc., the game isn't that bad, nor is it for B tier Killer's, tho they suffer a bit more. The problems appear when we start looking at C tier Killers and below. Those are the Killers that aren't enjoying the game's current meta, like Ghostface and Wraith for example, CoH did a number on them.
I can't say the same about maps. Maps are what decides if a game will play out in the Killer's favor or in the Survivor's, and most of the time it will be in the Survivor's favor. Most maps suck when it comes to game balance
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It's pretty balanced
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Totally killer sided. If you think about it, all you can do is blind them or stun them and OP Lightborn removes half of your counterplay.
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Its balanced at the lower level until you reach the top %, where survivors will dunk on most killers except nurse and maybe blight. Basically if both parties play perfectly at top level, killer can never win
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50/50ish player closing in on 4k hrs. It's "whichever side ran better perks/addons and played better-sided".
A lot of people seem to think one side or the other should be able to run random perks and compete with full meta, or that 500 hrs should consistently compete and win against players with 3000 hrs. We'd have a very dull game with zero skill expression if that were the case.
It's normal and healthy to have a huge skill gap between the top-average-bottom. It's up to matchmaking to sort that out.
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I play both equally, probably survivor more now and know it's Survivor sided. Killer is stressful, absolutely 0 fun, you get abuse when you play well, you get the same treatment when you play poorly. Winning feels like losing, and any footing you make in the game you feel punished for. While playing survivor you feel like you are succeeding when you are losing, and you are not punished for mistakes. I literally eat, chat with friends, watch shows, listen to music, and play other games - WHILE PLAYING SURVIVOR and then win with 3-4 escapes.
and that's not even the end of it, soon I won't even get hooked when these perks from the PTB go live. Imagine Crotus Penn with Boiled Over, and Lery's with Power Struggle.
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I think it's mostly SWF sided due to 2 things:
flawed map design
abusable unfair mechanics.
A great example of this is the infinite locker flashlight saves. I don't think it's fair.
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Nobody in their right mind says the game is killer sided. Even the survivors know that this game is all for them.
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@FFirebrandd I agree these perks are dumb, but killers to have low skill tactics things they can do to secure a kill or win, like camping, using noed, etc.
@Oiry it is true that 3-4 man swfs are to strong, however solos are in a bad state due to selfish teammates leaving you enter second stage or some dumb things.
Otzdarva and others have managed to get huge win streaks in red ranks before mmr, how did they do so if the game is so survivor sided like all killer mains love to say?
@Tiller ok, but if you are going to mention how the best survivors defeat killers, then you can only compare them to the best killers that also bring broken things.
@Aurelle boon is broken just like exhaustion perks, just like NOED and facecamping killers can mostly secure 2 kills no skill.
@IamFran I agree, swfs are to strong and solos to weak.
@ThiccBudhha not really, looping is quite strong enough to give skilled survivors a fair chance against skilled killers.
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I really think of this: what characters can do.
- DS: respect fresh unhook (should be basekit though)
- BT: respect fresh unhook (also should be basekit)
- Unbreakable:
- Dead hard:
- Headon: respect locker.
- Any means necessart: Respect dropped pallets.
- For the people
- Blast mine
- Boon:
- Soon Killer will have to respect height with Boil over.
While Killer is still mainly forced to go around "which slow down build is the most efficient"
I actually like how its going, survivors have 4 tools in a hundred to use and out smart Killer. But the game really need to give Killer some default slow down without perks. They dont have time to respect everything.
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This. Even though I feel survivor gets more attention because there is usually more of them. The wheel that squeaks the most gets the oil.
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I think that when we are talking about balance, we are usually talking about high-end gameplay. I do think that on the high-end this game is survivor sided on most maps against most killers. There are exceptions, though, to be fair. Some maps I think are killer-sided, but that depends on the killer.
Other than that the killer mostly depends on survivor mistakes. These are hard to not make as a survivor, ever in a swf and even with 1k hours into the game. But again, on high-end, I think survivors should escape in most situations. Not to say that any killer can put a fight, though.
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Survivor sided. Gen speeds, poor map design with to many loops and pallets, swf, weak killers who are are outdated and need buffs badly.
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Survivor sided. The things i can do as a survivor to take control away from the killer is astronishing.
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Very weird killers you've picked there. Nurse I agree, others defly not. Maybe Blight, especially with top addons
Also what you are saying is max potential = playing the best killer. I don't agree with that. You have to look at the best potential of each killer individually and then get an average of those.
I think saying "If you want to win, just play Nurse" is everything but balanced. But even saying "if you want a balanced game, play X, Y or Z", still kinda sad
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I play both sides. survivor more then killer. and I do feel is survivor sided in a few aspects.
SWF is very powerful. communication really helps survivor teams do a lot of things.
Survivors pay very little for mistakes. they have 3 others to back them up and and a lot of third heath state perks. Killers do have some counters to this but not many.
With killers making one mistake can cost you an entire game.
The map design favors loops for survivors to keep running untouched.
I've played on survivor teams that enjoy harassing killers, and as soon as they can't they get quite upset about it.
Survivors can ruin the fun by gen rushing. sometimes even if a killer was doing as good as the game will allow the rush on gens can still happen. and with. technician survivors can blow skill checks and you'll never know. Had a match against a feng that had every stealth and killer monitoring perk she could. I only ever saw her once.
That's just an example.
The major problem right now is the hacking/cheating on both sides. killers are doing it survivors are doing it and if you really want something that's hurting the game it's this.
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It's survivor sided for sure. Survivors outnumber killers 4 to 1. Here is why they favor survivor.
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@Oiry ok, but then you cannot bring 3 and 4 man swfs or strong perk survivor in the equation if you just look at the average killer. Because if you are going to look at the average killer potential, also look at the average survivor potential, not the huge swfs groups or strong perks. I can tell you survivors without the meta and not in a huge swf group will be beatable with a mid tier killer because there will most likely be a weakling (it is unlikely to randomly get 4 good survivors) matched with you or a cheesy strat that can be used.
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Why are you asking only the mains? How about me?
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What's stopping you?
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I feel like it's more survivor sided. I won't say why, I'm too lazy to give arguments lol.
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If you play as mean as you want then killer sided every time. Occasionally beaten by extremely lucky RNG or competent survivors. Map RNG plays a huge part in who the favour can stand with.
Killers always have and still do get more kills than survivors escape. Doesnt really matter if it's because of DCs, SWF or whatever, if the game was ultimately survivor sided then escapes would always and consistently outweighed the kills. They dont.
If you aren't managing to kill well at 'high mmr' then you're probably not at that high mmr. Otz just did a video playing every killer and even playing perkless and afk for 30s he still managed an average 3.56 kill rate or something ridiculous - when he played by the 'killer' rulebook technically no-one escaped if you discount the 4 hatch escapes or something like that out of the 92 or so survivors he faced. - He was playing on his normal account so high MMR.
People say you should balance around high MMR so.... speaks volumes.
Saying that i find killer WAY more stressful and it is frustrating going against really good teams but I know i'm just not playing that optimally - killer is WAY higher skill ceiling in terms of time management etc. than surviror.
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Yes,killers have cheap tactics to win,but survs find it "boring" and "unfair",and 1 killer with 7k hours didn't prove anything,of course he's going to get kills
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The easiest example i can cite is Mori vs Keys.
A year to change the survivor addon with notice given were as Mori's were a overnight ghost snipe.
Then you can just take the whole swf arguement, i get people want to play with their friends, but its horrible for balance for both sides.
Their needs to be limits on the amount of people in a swf, i.e a duo only, or % handicaps given to Killers to make up for the swf.
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Good I hope survivors enjoy getting camped and tunnelled as more killers begin to realise it's the only way to play
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It's survivor sided because 80% of killers rely on survivor mistakes. No mistakes, no downs. It's that simple. Good thing most survivors are trash but when you hit good people who can loop and it's a map with endless pallets? Good luck, enjoy.
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