We need to nerf Decisive Strike again.
This perk isn't 100% an anti-tunnel perk yet.
The amount of times I've been stunned by this perk because I've hooked two people within a minute is staggering. If I'm chasing, downing and hooking another survivor, you DO NOT deserve to keep your Decisive Strike active even if you decided to AFK for a minute. It needs to be deactivated the second another survivor is hooked. Because, in any scenario where someone else is hooked, you are not being tunnelled and as such, do not deserve to keep your minute of invincibility.
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The person who DS'd you even a minute after could not have progressed the game. They didn't touch a generator so I don't know what your problem with that is.
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While I see the point from the 'It's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk' standpoint, I also think that may nerf it a little too much as, as gendoss said; the Survivor can't really DO anything while keeping D.Strike.
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That perk has been changed way too many times. Please leave it alone.
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No it doesn't.
Funny that this type of complaint is coming from a person named NoEd Enjoyer.
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I mean if you have a strict definition of tunneling as focusing on one survivor to the exclusion of others, then hooking another survivor would mean that you aren't tunneling anymore.
Not saying I 100% agree, but I see the logic.
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If you think DS needs a nerf, you are either a noob or delusional.
DS is as balanced as it has ever been.
Just because you're camping and hooking the poor soul that saved their teammates while you hit them during the action, doesn't give you a get out of stun free card .
Post edited by Clevite on14 -
Have you tried winning, but no as hard?
Jokes aside, those DS are the ones that aren't actually bad to eat since it means they did nothing to progress the match, and are just plain wasting your time as much as they're wasting theirs. Even moreso if it was a 59s DS, they did nothing that entire time.
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OP is now suspicious of trolling the board. 7/10. Will maybe read again.
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Take a look at the other deactivation conditions of DS. Every single one of them is an action that only happens if the DS user consciously decides to perform that action. It's them telling the game "Yes, I give up my DS to instead work on this gen/heal this person/whatever". What other players do and how fast they go down does not follow this design philosophy whatsoever. Believe me, this is very intentional design. If a player that could've had DS active ends up wishing they kept it, it's no one's fault but their own.
It was silly that it didn't deactivate when blessing totems, and they fixed that. Only remaining interaction where it might make sense to add deactivation is opening a gate.
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Imagine not tunnelling a survivor, only to be stunned by their anti-tunnel perk because you played too well.
Now imagine if there was a killer equivalent to this, survivor mains would be up in arms, as clear by this thread of ''keep my second-chance perk unfair please''
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this is funny.
- I hardly see anyone use DS anymore because it's not that great of a perk and is ONLY there to prevent yourself from being tunneled off and immediately rehooked with no chance to play the game.
- I can think of plenty of situations in which you can tunnel someone and still hook someone else within a minute (Twins slug you off hook, knock someone else down with the gremlin, hook them and then come back for you in less than 60 seconds being just ONE common example)
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If you're playing so well then a DS stun won't do anything to your momentum and you will still win incredibly easily.
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The only nerf DS needs is to deactivate when you open an exit gate.
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DS has been nerfed 2 times already it does not need a 3rd.
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I'd like it if it didn't work in the exit gate. It's a guaranteed escape if you have it active and get downed at the exit. Killer can't pick you up and if he slugs, you can just crawl out. There is no counter play besides a mori. I also feel it should deactivate if you touch an exit gate. You are indeed advancing the game. Outside of that I have no issue with it, and the two issues I do have are pretty minor anyway and I can live with them.
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If I get surprise DSed by someone 50 seconds after they got off the hook, I didn't tunnel them and ran into them later on (and probably after chasing someone else), they didn't do anything during that 50 seconds and I'm in a good spot because of that. It's a minor nuisance at worst.
Just eat the DS and carry on, or slug on the side of caution if it's that much of an issue. And learn to recognize when a survivor very obviously has DS and wants you to down them; be suspicious of survivors that act super bold off the hook, or who bait themselves and run straight at you for a free down when there isn't something in play that could have caused them to not hear you were close.
DS does not need a nerf in its current state. What you're proposing would turn off DS if the killer downs the rescuer 1 second after the unhook, slaps them up, and goes straight after you again, and that's still tunneling.
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It's the principle of it though. We want fair gameplay, so a perk that isn't entirely fair needs to be changed.
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I actually think DS is pretty well designed now, and isn't OP like it used to be. You'd have to have a very generous definition of tunneling to think making it truly anti-tunnel would mean significantly buffing it.
A great many survivors feel like they are being tunneled when they aren't. I don't like to be mean, but a good portion feel this way because they are the weakest link on their team, and while the killer is engaging with other survivors, they are the proverbial tallest nail, and as such, get the worst of it. I mean as I rule I don't target/tunnel, but if you are always the one making an easy target of yourself, I am only going to ignore you so much.
This is why I think everyone should play a decent amount of both sides. You might feel like you are being targeted, but in the vast majority of cases the killer is pinballing from survivor to survivor, sometimes pretty quickly. I would bet good percentage or survs who feel like they have been tunneled really haven't been.
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If we're going to operate purely off the principle of an anti-tunneling perk, then DS should never deactivate as long as the killer is still pursuing that survivor, even if that chase takes 5 minutes long, and you should never be able to slug and wait it out because you're still tunneling. Because if the perk doesn't work when the survivor's being tunneled, then it's not an anti-tunnel perk, right?
Do you really want that to be the design philosophy you go with? Or do you want to keep the perk fair and balanced and just eat the occasional random stun when you're snowballing the hell out of a game? Because it's not the end of the world when it happens.
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DS is fair. If you're chasing the survivor that hasn't done anything you're prioritising your targets incorrectly as killer and going for the survivors not progressing the objectives. Spread the hook states and it won't be a problem; if you can down and hook two different survivors within 60 seconds they won't get very far with their DS and you'll have them back on a hook.
Furthermore, your suggestion opens DS up to a lot more abuse than currently, particularly in solo queue. Follow this scenario:
Survivor 1 is unhooked by Survivor 2, who goes down in the process- a hook trade.
Survivor 1 goes down afterwards due to Survivor 2 not having "Borrowed Time" equipped- prepared for such a tragedy, they instead equip "Decisive Strike" to ensure that farming is far less impactful on them.
The killer hooks Survivor 2. Suddenly, Survivor 1 no longer has Decisive Strike and the killer may hook them again freely.
"But that's on the teammate's bad decision" yes it is, and DS is there to help you recover from terrible decisions, or good decisions in terrible circumstances. Making your change a reality would instead further the gap between solos and SWF, which we know is as large as 15% in escape rates and is the opposite of what we want.
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Obviously DS is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk, because it does nothing against tunneling. It needs Buff in its Anti-Tunnel ability.
When reading OPs Post, 1 DS should not matter that much to you. You can down and hook two players in 1 minute and the person who had DS did nothing for this whole minute. So you had tons of pressure, even when you get hit by a DS.
So even if you get hit by DS after around a minute, you at least know that the respective person did nothing, which is good for the Killer.
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DS is fine as it is. It's in a good place right now, no need to change it.
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Did you seriously just ask for a DS nerf? Lmao
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Plus it doesn't deactivate when another Survivor heals you... I think that needs to be addressed
Cause again if you can get healed you aren't in chase... I.E not being tunneled
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My pet hate with it is, if i catch you in a grab you can still use it.
I.e Lockers or Windows.
You're caught and you still get out of jail free.
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dont tunnel people
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At this point, if I get ever do get DS'd, which isn't often, I know it's coming, and I have accepted it because I want to remove the option going forward. It's actually a benefit is some cases as some survs will actively avoid doing anything else and try to get downed so they can get their jollies by stunning the killer. As a killer, this is fine by me as you have just wasted a minute of your time (and you team's time).
Or they try to get downed so they can use DS and you just leave them on the floor, which is also a win for the killer.
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The problem with this is if someone farms you off the hook. Killer hooks the farmer and goes straight after the unhooked person and there DS is deactivated because someone else was hooked.
However I do agree hooking someone else and coming back and find the DS person and getting DS'd is complete and total BS, like a lot of the stuff in this game.
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DS is perfectly fine the way it is now, blessing a totem should also probably remove it but that's minor, if they're hitting you with the DS after that much time they did nothing and you gained a ton of pressure from that unless you were chasing them for a lot of that in which case it's doing exactly what it's supposed to anyways.
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DS is only super strong during endgame, imo.
With the current popularity of Perks like NWO/BW and maybe.....Remember Me(I'm actually pumped for its buff), more players are opting to extend the endgame which, in turn, weakens/shortens the window of opportunity to use time-sensitive perks (IE Deliverance/BT/DS) in an autonomous/'freebie' manner. These 'stall' perks also have the added bonus of lessening the impact of such perks if they do go off while the game is 'stalled.' NOED can also help you get downs during this period.
You can also check people for DS if you run across the unhooked person and down them within a minute or even tunnel them if you want to.
There's a decent number of ways to weaken/remove its endgame use regardless of whatever 'ruleset' you want to play by.
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No, well maybe in general, but the meta survivor perks definitely all place in the top 10 strongest perks in the game. DH is the easy number 1 in the current meta.
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Personally I believe DS should not be touched ever again
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It does not need a nerf at all, it's fine perk now. They just have to disable it when you start blessing a totem.
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Your post is ridiculous.
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I get your point but, if they have DS after you down 2 people it's A) 0 pressure for you from them cause they're not doing anything and B) Might as well take it if you're getting your downs really quickly it shouldn't really affect you too much.
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As others have said, to have that stun saved means the survivor did literally nothing to help his team for the entire duration. Not only is that a seriously rare scenario, it's a fantastic tradeoff in the killer's favor (45-50 seconds of a survivor doing literally nothing at the cost of a 5 sec stun)
Maybe we should just stop calling DS an "anti tunnel" perk. Everytime I see a post where it's called that, that post is followed by someone asking for major changes to make it an anti tunnel perk, so clearly, it isn't one. It's a second chance, if you choose to save it or get caught before it expires, and that's it.
It doesn't stop tunneling (because no single perk can) and it definitely comes into play in situations where someone isn't being tunneled.
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no
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DS as a whole I'd fine as it is. Sure it can be problematic during end game or if used as a weapon but I really don't see it under those situations to often.
It does need to deactivate when blessing and opening gates imo.
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DS is in good spot right now
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5.4.0 actually made that change, it was regarded as a bug instead of a nerf which is why not many people noticed it. I only noticed it when I looked at the wiki page.
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🤣 Jesus.
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It could get the Pop treatment of being 45 seconds instead of 60. Even if the survivor did not progress the game I can understand why a survivor should not be given free escapes for nothing. Otherwise it's fine now.
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There are four people in the game, you don't have to chase the same person. Also, the problem isn't the DS, it's the game's cures that are too fast, like you lose a wounded survivor in a chase and soon he's healed. .
The only nerf that I think the DS could have was maybe it didn't turn on after the generators were all fixed, as it's the only situation that's hard to do something, but if you got to that situation, it's because you played badly, no blame perk for that
Also, if you got punished with DS it's because this survivor wasn't doing anything to progress the match, so he lost a match minute to get rid of you for 5 seconds.
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Ikr? He makes such funny threads
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If you're winning THAT fast...wait a minute, LITERALLY count to 60 and voila, no more DS
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I think it's a sign of an unpopular idea when people on these forums actually agree on something for once.
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"Tunneling" someone during endgame is pretty much inevitable, it's extremely ######### when it happens close to the exit gate. It's pretty much a free escape for the survivor as long as they have DS ready, that has to be the most infuriating aspect of the perk. It quite literally has no counterplay in that situation.
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I have a better idea. Make the timmer 30 seconds, but it will be paused if you're being chased or downed
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