Dead By Daylight Has Won
It's been almost 4 years and far too many hours, but I'm sorry to say that I'm not finding any enjoyment in DBD anymore. I realized it when I started panicking when I thought about queuing up as Killer and that when I found myself dreading playing Survivor. I have two friends who still play DBD (Survivor-only) and they'll probably get me to play with them. But I think I'm done playing on my own. For my own sanity, this is sort of my goodbye post. I'm not leaving the Forums or anything, I like a lot of you too much, but I don't think I can play the game regularly anymore.
I have....mixed feelings about the game. On the one hand, it has incredible potential. On the other, it will never ever reach that potential. The company behind the game (not saying Devs because I don't think they have any say in what actually gets worked on) has shown that they are all about monetization. This was made most clear in the NFT incident in 2021. The game has always been a revolving door of players. Until that changes (and eventually they will run out of players), there is zero incentive for the potential of this game to be realized. This can also be seen in the broken promise of 60 FPS on Xbox One and PS4. BHVR promised and it kept players playing and buying cosmetics and Chapters. That's clearly all they care about. Their absolute refusal to answer one way or the other about Console Optimization speaks volumes.
I think my biggest issue with this game is that what's fun for one side usually makes the other side feel like #########. To illustrate my point, I'll literally copy this post
"Concept 1: Humiliation DbD's gameplay is centered on humiliating your adversary. I would argue that every aspect of the gameplay is an act of humiliation, not competition, like you see in other games. The reward-based outcomes combined with asymmetric gameplay makes DbD uniquely painful to emotionally process both your losses AND wins. Let's look at the various aspects of gameplay:
Killer Humiliates
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to contribute to their team (social humiliation)
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to level up and earn points (reward-denial humiliation)
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to appear competent in front of their survivor peers (mild self-esteem humiliation)
Survivor Humiliates
- Frustrates a killer's ability to appear competitive and threatening in the game environment (social)
- Frustrates a killer's ability to level up and earn points (reward-denial humiliation)
- Humiliates the killer in post-game chat, something that while survivors aren't immune to, but have group social support resources to easily heal from (severe self-esteem humiliation)
Concept 2: Rollercoaster of Emotional Injury If a killer wins, but doesn't win "right" (camping, some glitch, lag, etc) they are deprived of their celebration by the survivors (survivor decides whether killers can celebrate, another humiliation). If a survivor wins, but everyone doesn't survive, the sacrificed survivor is deprived of joining in the celebration (the killer can take this opportunity to humiliate them). Through all of this, both player sides undergo extreme stress.
Killer Stress
Killers experience states of stress throughout the game: trying to find survivors, being evaded by survivors, losing track of survivors, and protecting hooks from survivor saves. Killers, at no point, have any moment of emotional peace or sense of "safety" from these states. The emotional injury ALWAYS ramps up in post-game end chat, and at the gate, where killers are ritualistically humiliated by twerking/circling/various taunts.
Survivor Stress
Survivors experience states of stress, too, with waves of calm: hiding, peacefully working on gens with their peers, being in the terror radius, evading, and being on the hook. Successful evasion and successful hides are followed by positive feelings of calm, while being chased is stressful, and being caught, hooked, and killed is a very substantial, large loss. A hooked survivor has disappointed their team, lost a huge amount of point potential, and been humiliated by the killer. Watch streamer facial expressions change when they realize they cannot be rescued and are dead, after a long match. There is pain in their face."
I've stuck with this game through thick and thin. I've watched as the 20 friends I had playing DBD dwindled to only 2. I can't keep playing a game that makes me feel worse for playing it. I don't even remember the last time I had fun playing this game. At best, it was "not horrible." I found myself talking to my remaining friends (and a party of 6 other players) about the success of DBD. Someone jokingly said they "hope it fails" and I found, rather disturbingly, that I agreed with them and so did the others. I don't know why I harbor that feeling, but it can't be good.
In short, I can't continue to play a game that routinely makes me feel worse and I can't continue to financially support a company that throws their weight behind NFT's and demonstrates they don't care about their playerbase past their wallets.
So, DBD, this is mostly goodbye (until my friends guilt me into playing SWF with them). It's been an interesting ride.
Comments
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Sad to see a respected member of the forums like yourself fall like this, but I don't understand why and how do you view this game like its some sort of job? Unless you're like a streamer and I'm not aware of it there is nothing really to lose if you stop playing, or hell even taking a break
I myself have been playing for 4 and a half years, I've had my ups and downs with this game and every time I saw it go downwards I would take Mathieu's advice the way it was meant, play something else.
If you're not having fun with something, don't do it. Thats what games are for, to have fun. Thats what pretty much every one on this forum does, they play DbD for fun. Most of them wont admit it for some odd reason, but there is a reason that they come back again and again.
So, want to hear my advice? Literally uninstall the game and don't come back to it for a time that you think is best for you, it can be a week, 2 weeks, a month or even multiple months. The game will most likely still be here to welcome you back with open arms and hopefully you'll be back with a fresh and clear mind.
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It's not that deep.
People need to turn off their computers/consoles and look around them, where real issues exist.
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Mostly because I don't have anything else to play and the fact that I'm extremely competitive.
Even if I took a break, it wouldn't really change anything. My matches would still be ######### on both sides. Maybe my tolerance of them would be higher, but that wouldn't change the nature of the game.
The fundamental issues I have with the game are unlikely to be resolved.
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Interesting elaboration about that aspect of DbD.
As a survivor I think I can not fully agree with what is written there from my perspective: When I run the Killer and I see 1-2 generators get done I feel like this is my reward. I was the distraction for this and it is partially my responsibility that those people where able to work in peace.
As a Killer I play the "BBQ-game" where I consider a game a "win" if I get my four stacks as this means that I got the better of each survivor at least once. Sure the taunting at the exit gate is a bad thing and I dislike it ("just leave", but for me it is not that bad.
The essay also assumes that I as a Killer need the survivors approval for my "win" which is not something I would agree with. My "celebration" is when I down them and whip my weapon clean or hook them and the entity takes them.
I can agree however that one side winning means that the other side feels bad. However this is nothing unusual in games. In Mortal Combat you get a fatality, in Civ6 you get the opponents victory screen and in Souls Games you get a "You Died" while the other player downpoints you. These instances are always there in PvP games.
However this all is very personal. This game also gets under my skin from time to time and I can not shake it off.
It's sad to hear why you are leaving and of course that you are leaving the game. Especially the part about lack of optimization. We can argue about game aspects and how balance should happen, how Killers should change or maps are bad. But I think we can all agree that the overall gameplay should be smooth and look good. Especially when it is about framerate and things like that...
I hope that the game lives up to its potencial and you maybe think about trying it when good new about optimization or other problems come in.
But after all of that, glad that you are staying on the forum, your posts are always worth reading.
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there is nothing really to lose if you stop playing, or hell even taking a break
Time.
When you spend thousands of hours on something, you just try everything to make it work, and when you give it up, it can be pretty depressing.
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I'll be depressing for a second.
I'm sick. Very sick and nobody knows why. I had to drop out of school because my health declined too much.
As sad as it sounds, this community means a lot to me. I can put my knowledge and my experience to use. I can feel proficient and good at something despite my health. Even though I've rarely agreed with you, I've valued everyone of our interactions.
Maybe that's pathetic, but I don't have a lot to feel good about these days.
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I mean hey if you want a good, fun, and pretty competitive game that you can play solo or with friends. Hunt: Showdown
I myself am not a huge fan of shooters but this game is probably one of the more unique and fun I've ever played. It takes PvEvP and executes it perfectly. I haven't been playing all too much DbD these days because of it. There's a lot more that I could get into but it would turn into a literal game review.
And from what I'm experiencing, games aren't too bad. They are when you have a bad mindset how ever. Again, just take a step back and drop DbD for a bit. Trust me it'll help in the long run
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There are extreme safety measures to protect my mental health right now for me to keep playing this game. But, ultimately, even then I can't always keep playing it. Many times I get good opponents, but the bad always outweighs the good. People are so happy about winning or upset about losing, even though a significant amount of time people's skill doesn't necessarily cause a win in the first place.
And it's painful, but I currently agree with your "potential that the game will never reach" statement. Every update they throw at us, it's usually painful to see. It's sad because there are some things they are doing right. Oh, well. One can dream! Hope to see you around :3
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I've heard a lot about Hunt. Some of my DBD friends left DBD for it too. I might check it out if it goes on sale.
As to your point with games, in the span of three days, I lost 30 games with Nurse and then got facecamped for most of the night.
Trust me, my games are pretty garbage.
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I don't think it's pathetic.
As someone who is also 99% of my time at home also for health related things, I can relate. I have over 5k hours in this game, so I can also see the perspective of someone who has played a lot.
Games can be addictive, and I understand that sometimes it's not easy to quit, but you shouldn't force yourself to play something that makes you feel the need to get validation from a psychologist on reddit and isn't bringing you any join.
This game is not a job (unless you're a streamer and are making money out of it), if you quit you wont lose income, you can just play something else.
Sure, you'll feel like you wasted a lot of time on it, but to waste even less time, you have to actually stop.
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From the way OP makes it out they're already becoming depressed with every game they play.
Sure it might be a bit disorienting at first, breaking the normal schedule. But eventually everything will settle and if they feel like they want to return to DbD, there is nothing stopping them. And if he doesn't feel like returning there is nothing stopping them.
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Hmm, I do hate that they never elaborated on what was causing these perceived emotions.
So this is my guess:
Killer Humiliates
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to contribute to their team (social humiliation)
- Survivors don't do anything while Hooked or Slugged
- SoloQ you can't tell your team you're being useful
- If you're Dead there is nothing to do but spectate or leave the game.
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to level up and earn points (reward-denial humiliation)
- The above causes pause in action where the Survivor is unable to earn BP
- Frustrates a survivor's ability to appear competent in front of their survivor peers (mild self-esteem humiliation)
- (Omitting as I'm unsure of a gameplay mechanic cause, as it's more social)
Survivor Humiliates
- Frustrates a killer's ability to appear competitive and threatening in the game environment (social)
- Survivors can blame the asymmetrical aspect, Killers can only blame themselves.
- Frustrates a killer's ability to level up and earn points (reward-denial humiliation)
- Killers only get BP from interacting with Survivors and are dependent on Survivors interacting with the Killer, there are no Totems to cleanse (Well, technically there are boons, but it's not like a Dull Totem)
- Humiliates the killer in post-game chat, something that while survivors aren't immune to, but have group social support resources to easily heal from (severe self-esteem humiliation)
- This is a result of opt-out allowing quick spam of things like "gg ez" rather than an opt-in chat where a bad game can be easily moved on from without needing to keep in mind that a Killer has to skip post-game results entirely and immediately if they want to avoid chat. Chat (Even with the Chat setting turned on) should by default collapse chat unless the Player themself starts typing.
0 - Frustrates a survivor's ability to contribute to their team (social humiliation)
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Also yeah, I'm bored of DBD too. Haven't played in a while. But I want to see this game succeed.
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Yeah, I know.
I've tried my hardest to make it work, but I guess there's no shame in admitting that there isn't anything left for me.
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Which is, you know, why video games and sport and books and movies and basically all forms of human art have been created. And, for the most part, they're meant to be enjoyed! The more interactive ones will have their periods of frustration, but the end result is meant to be something to feel positive about and enjoy. They're not meant to fall into the same serious morass of worrying about the future and how to fix problems and stress that real life and all its problems bring.
How we experience games is subjective, and when more and more people are having the same sort of feelings towards a game as they would an unpleasant job (or worse), then something is really starting to go wrong with the game or its community.
5 -
I think I've booted up DBD once a day (at least) since 2018.
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I am currently on like 3 months break. Just many reasons combined SBMM, Grade resets, CoH, validation, my main killer nerfed to ######### and probably some other things I have rather forgot.
Some of those things just took away fun I used to have and grades actually made it more like a work for me.
I enjoyed roleplayers, just doing fun things. For some reason it got quite rare, I had to actually force players to Boop The Snoot, that's how bad it was.
This mid-chapter did nothing really worth coming back for me. I will maybe try some games with Legion changes.
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A video game is very different from a job I'm afraid.
If I quit my job, I become homeless, if I quit dbd, I don't have to deal with something that is making me feel down.
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It goes on sale pretty frequently on steam so I'd imagine it goes on sale on PS/Xbox pretty frequently as well.
And yeah I get that, there are those days/nights where nothing goes your way. I have those all the time but thats why I have multiple games to play, if I'm not feeling one of them I jump to the other. And then there are those occasional nights where nothing goes my way. So thats why I have a few singleplayer games I hop between so I still have something to do to keep me entertained.
I know its kind of a thing, but the civ games are genuinely good too :)
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Considering the changes in the past, whilst I do want Legion (and Ghostface) changes, I have little faith that they will be good.
I hope i'm wrong.
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This is called sunk cost fallacy.
It heavily applies to this grindy game.
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I have 7500 hours on Empire Total War. I like strategy games.
I was gonna buy Civ 6 on my Xbox but the sale ran out before I could get to the store.
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Practically? Sure, they're different. But you can get caught in the same emotional response, and we're not biologically locked into viewing jobs that way--it's all our social and mental responses. It's pretty easy for a game to take the same sort of place in your head.
Which is why something has gone very wrong if a made-for-fun activity is generating this sort of burnout regularly (and the downward trend of players). There's something very wrong with the amount of stress involved.
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thats a lot lmao, I'm not really far behind. Theres probably 2-3 days a month where I don't log onto DbD since I got it the game, and it has been my main game since I got it back in May 2017. some say I got hooked
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That was a bad pun, but I'm feeling generous so I'm not going to meme you for it.
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7.5k on Empire is one of the strangest combinations I've ever heard. I'd much rather have gone for Shogun II (in that time period).
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Well, yeah. If they will screw it, then I will probably give up completely.
Just their overall approach is really anoying for me.
Waiting for months only to get few number changes, which are often bad.
PTB where testing is usually worthless, because even if everyone is saying it's bad, they will do it anyway.
Ignoring players who know more than them about this game. I really felt bad for Otz on his stream after mid-season was revealed....
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As someone who has played a lot of 'competitive' games in the past, like Siege and Overwatch, the stress of DBD is extremely high, especially as Killer. I'm trying to be careful here, because I do not want this to be an us vs them thing.
I'd most liken it to a 1v5 clutch scenario in Siege. You know the game is riding on you and you alone. If you screw up, everyone is going to know and blame it on you.
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I told my grandma I liked strategy computer games so she bought the newest one she saw. I think I was 7? Maybe?
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That's kinda wholesome.
It was Warcraft III for me.
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It was a nice gesture.
Warcraft III was before my time, I'm afraid.
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Yeah. It does.
But I must've been trying to get something out of it. If there wasn't something there, I would've quit years ago. I wonder what it is.
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Hey, don't make me feel old, I am already depressed enough :D
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It literally came out before I was born great-grandpa 😐️
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I think you are not the only one who thinks like this. Active player stats on steam are shrinking every month. Some people just take a break for a few months. Others uninstall permanently because of how toxic this community can be.
We have streamers that get DDOSed and people who would threaten their families.
Behavior needs to step up their game and do something quickly. Their stance of "this game thrives on frustration" needs to change. Its not a healthy stance.
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Kids nowadays have no respect for elders!
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Its a unique game. Most assymetrical pvp games failed hard. Either because they tried to cash grab to much or because the balancing took a horrible turn and one side stopped playing.
Now that i think of it. DbD is taking this same way...
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100% agree. I respect @Pulsar, but I don't get why people take this game so serious. It's not a job. Take some time off if you need it. Hell, I took a 6-month break about a year or so ago. It can really make you feel a lot better.
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This is true.
source: my younger brother
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I explain why I have a difficult time in a response.
I do not think a break will make me feel better. It may raise my tolerance level, but it is unlikely to resolve my issues with the game.
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I agree.
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If everyone with issues with the game does that, you get a death spiral.
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Mine was Mafia, a turn based strategy game i played on my C64.
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I don't understand these threads. Actually they're laughable. Either you play the game or not. It's not that deep, not deep at all. You make it deep, for whatever reasons. Life issues I assume.
Anyways, see you and all the other "quittets" in the next chapter in a few days.
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Thanks.
Appreciate the feedback.
Idk what your problem is? Were you one of the Killers who facecamped me?
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It's always good to take a break.
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Sometimes. It doesn't necessarily address fundamental problems with why something isn't fun, however, and if that's tied into the community atmosphere and patch cycle, then it just turns into not playing, which is where the death spiral comes in.
When you get threads like this from long-time players at a rate of... what, one a week or so, on a small sample size of the official forums? It's a warning sign that something might be wrong with the game, not the attitude of the players.
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Person enjoys something.
Enjoyment is tempered through repeat exposure. (If stagnation persists)
Annoyances don't temper as much and stand out.
Displeasure is communicated.
Doesn't even mean they're dropping it; OP says as much. Having an interest in DBD's IP, though gameplay may dwindle.
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Warcraft III was first I played with friends, but first game I have ever played more than an hour was Knights and Merchants. I loved that game, I wonder if I can download it somewhere :D not sure if I want to ruin my memories on it tho...
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You're welcome. Don't let any game to get under your skin.
And no, I don't facecamp.
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