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Boil over meta?
Y'all are kinda silly sometimes. Everyone's (obviously not everyone but enough of y'all) complaining and showing how boil over is breaking the meta and now as killers we have to play around it....
Ok, and? Is that not what y'all wanted? (Myself included) Break the meta for something new?
Players : "we want a new meta, were tired of the same thing over and over!"
BHVR : changes the meta
Players : "WOAH! WHAT!? The meta changed and now we have to change the way we react and play around it!? This is BULLSHIT!"
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
There's always going to be a meta. Always. Doesn't matter what the situation is, there will ALWAYS be a meta of some kind. Learn to play around it. Survivors change what perks they use to fit the current meta, so as a killer, change what perks you use to fit the current meta in turn.
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Your fundamental misunderstanding here is that you can change the meta without an infinite powercreep of second chance perks. Easy to do? Probably not.
But you can.
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I don't think new BO is meta. It is asf tho
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You can, sure. However that's not what's happening. So instead of just complaining about it, work around it.
It's ok to be upset about the meta. I get it. But if you aren't going to do anything to actively make it easier on yourself, what exactly are you doing to solve the problem?
You can shout at a wall all day long for being in your way, or you can simply walk around it and continue on with what you were doing
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Where have you been? We are working around it. We're slugging more than we ever had, and tunneling more than we ever had. We know it's not fun for you and it's certainly not what we want either.
Hence, the complaining.
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I have to say I agree. While boil over is not going to become a part of the meta combo for most, you may see some people break the meta combos to change up their builds for it. I don't see why certain folks claim they don't like the meta. But when they buff useless perks into something viable, them certain folks start complaining. Like don't people wanna see useless perks become decent? Even with the dead man switch buff, I like it that they actually made it a meta worthy perk.
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But then what is the alternative? Don't buff perks at all? Nerf all perks including metas and make them all laughably weak? Remove the SWF option so that strong perks aren't overwhelming, even though a majority of survivor is solo queue? None of these sound practical or good for the game.
This complaining is an issue on both sides of course, not just killer. But because we're talking about Boil Over, let's look at it in those terms: BO was on no killer's radar previously. Now, it has decent use. Why does a perk getting use automatically warrant complaining and nerfing? Or, to be unbiased, we could make the same argument against old Undying. I didn't agree with survivors immediately screaming to nerf that either.
There are occasions that definitely warrant it, i.e. CoH and old DS, but a lot of perk buffs are not game changers. We have killers and survivors both crying out against the "boring" meta, but then what do you propose to do about that if you don't want weak perks buffed?
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Thing is - it doesn't change the meta.
Boil Over is still a terrible perk.
All it does is give griefers a tool to build bully squads around, or to stall matches out for ages as you're forced to bleed them out.
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I'm a killer main, so there's that.
And if it's not fun for you, why are you doing it? That makes no sense.
"Cuz I'll lose if I don't!!!!" Ok? And? Who cares dude. You're not playing for money. It's not a professional competitive game. There's no need to win every single match. It's a game meant for fun. If you aren't having fun, what are you doing?
You don't need to slug everyone. It's not a constant thing that needs to be done. If they have BO and you can't reach a hook, sure drop em and slug. But that's not nearly as common as people are claiming.
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I mean you are right.
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There's nothing here to unpack except that I disagree with you on all points. You don't get to choose the meta as an individual, you have to play around it. I'm allowed to be competitive, full stop. And the slugging is happening far more often than you think it is, regardless of your personal experience.
The alternative is kill the meta completely by nerfing all second chance perks on both sides and considerably buffing aura perks so they additionally become potential mind-game perks and the rest of the perk library while we're at it.
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Ok, so you'll see it in one of maybe 50 games. Oh no.
If you can give me an unedited video of 50 matches in a row where you're being "bullied" by BO, I'll take back everything I've ever said about it. Until then, it's a non issue that people are simply blowing up to ridiculous proportions
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This could work if second chance perks weren't a mostly survivor-sided concept to begin with. A vast majority of the meta that killers play don't give them second chances at anything.
So the result is killers keeping their meta with the addition of buffing aura perks, thus destroying solo queue even more than it already has been.
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Ok. That's fair. You have your opinions, I have mine, and we can simply agree to disagree.
However, I really do need to ask: if it's not fun for you, why are you doing it? Why aren't you playing in an "off meta" way that creates more fun for you and by extension the survivors you're against?
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There is a name for this fallacy, but it escapes me. You are essentially asking me for ridiculously narrow 'proofs' for a fact that can be easily established by simply playing the game.
Something doesn't have to be common to be a problem. You may as well say 'show me an unedited video of 50 matches in a row where you face hackers, otherwise hacking isn't a problem'.
Doing my challenge at the moment, thus far I'm seeing at least one person with Boil Over in perhaps half my games.
In 26 matches thus far, I've had 3 bully squads abusing it with map offerings, which were genuinely frustrating games that took ages, and resulted in me gaining very little BP. I'd be pretty annoyed if I wasn't already Iri 1, as this would also make it impossible to pip.
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I dont tunnel. I CHOOSE not to ruin someone else's game. And can still get kills.
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Sunk cost fallacy, and I personally believe if I make enough survivors absolutely miserable they'll cry for a meta change too. I can't imagine ignoring health states is fun for anyone. When I play survivor, it's just rote. Pre-drop pallets and force breaks, find new tilesets, eventually take a hit, eventually deadhead for your third health state, eventually get a body block for your fourth health state- make it to COH and heal or end up on hook and rinse and repeat. If our health states actually mattered the chases would have more value and you could balance around that instead.
No us vs them here, second chance exists on both sides, and it doesn't matter if the majority rest on the survivor side. It takes two to tango and Killers are playing AROUND those perks. You can make changes, you just have to admit it's a glaring problem.
I'm talking about buffing aura perks for survivors. Alert is a great example of a perk that can be used in a loop to bamboozle a killer. Imagine if it gave 7 seconds of aura reading, imagine the stealth nonsense plays you could make with it then? It would additionally tell a solo they're safe to stay on the gen if they see a killer break a pallet across the map and then move even farther away.
If the meta goes, this game could be fixed.
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Oh of course. Post up some videos of your gameplay please.
We would all love to see the secrets to this game you've unlocked with your experience that refutes high-level streamer evidence, comp play, and the general consensus.
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I played someone yesterday who kept going to a vantage point and I could not get them to a hook. The fall down wiggle progress needs to go asap
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If it truly is such an uncommon event, a very uncommon problem, then why does it need so much attention?
3/26 games where it affected you. That's a mere 3 games out of 26 that you'll have to slightly adjust the way you handle the game.
Even if it weren't BO, it would still be 3 games of bully squads that you'd have to change the way you handle the match in. Making BO a non issue, right? It just happens to be that they're using BO but it could have been anything else as well.
So ultimately BO isn't the issue, it's the bully squads to begin with. BO is just the current mask their wearing
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It isn't us vs them and you can't just default to that to escape my point - the concept of "second chance perks" is almost exclusively used in arguments against survivors. So nerfing "second chance perks" would disproportionately affect one side. That's just the truth. You aren't "killing the meta on both sides" if one side is barely affected.
To your second point, I stand corrected about the aura perks in that case. But then in regards to that, exactly how many things can you do with aura perks instead? For example, how would an aura perk help counter tunneling if DS were further nerfed? How would an aura perk help counter camping if BT were nerfed?
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BO is the tool they are using to be bully squads. And 3 out of 26 isn't nothing. If you got 3 hackers in 26 games, you'd be fuming. It's another version of the old 'you can't pick me up if I crawl between these two doodads' troll strategy, and I'm pretty sure you'd agree those spots needed to be fixed. Or...not?
The issue is that BO exists right now as a mediocre perk that only enables shenanigans. Get rid of the 'dropping' penalty and the issue is fixed. Rework it into something actually healthy for the game next time.
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DS is one of the few second chance perks that is in a completely fine spot. I don't think that one needs a nerf, it does exactly what it's designed to do.
And again, the game cannot be balanced around the plethora of second chance perks. They encourage tunneling, slugging, and playing as viciously as possible. I'm not saying the game will be balanced with their removal. I'm saying the game can GET balanced with their removal. The second they go, the perk library opens up and tweaks to other perks will actually have meaning. Monsters like Nurse and Blight can be tuned more appropriately. We've hit a power-ceiling that rewards no-one and can only be broken with extremes. I'm proposing the extreme is a nerf, again, to both sides, instead of further escalation.
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"new meta"
"meta shakeup"
Can still run Dead Hard, Borrowed Time, Circle of healing/x1, Boil Over/x2. Or any variety of the meta since survivors have always had 1-2 slots 'free'.
Yeah totally different games now that a bully squad swapped out their iron wills for Boil Over.
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It just occurred to me: Survivors have 4 second-chance perks, per Survivor.
NoED is like a second chance perk for Killers.
Survivors, on the subject of second chance Survivor perks: Get gud, Killers!
Survivors, on the subject of NoED: Nerf! Unfair! Unearned wins! Raaagh! 😡
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I can give my gemertag. They're on my profile. And even stream. Do I get wrecked some games? Of course. But I'm not gonna cry and whine about it. You don't need 4 kills every single game. If you're consistently getting 0 kills, then you're just probably not great at killer especially if you have to tunnel and camp the whole game.
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Noone cares that your opinion contradicts the general consensus. What we're talking about is the actual experience.
Noone is asking for a 4k every game, get that disingenuous nonsense out of here. What we're looking for is a meta that isn't completely feast or famine based on how many second chance perks trigger.
Post up the stream, so we can see the quality of the games you're playing. Again, the understood consensus is that because survivors are so well insulated if the Killer wants to be competitive they have to play a certain way. If you're playing at odd hours and only getting potatoes and you can play competitively and still be relaxed, that's great.
But on the off chance that you're actually facing the kind of teams that we're talking about, and you can still succeed while playing nice and chill, you should be sharing that with everyone because you're clearly gods gift to this game.
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I never said I wanted the meta to change. The lack of power creep used to be something i liked about dead by daylight.
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True. That's the current tool being used.
However, I bet you could could off on your fingers how many spots BO can actually be used to create an unhookable location. At that point, it's incredibly niche. Not only that, but for those niche locations, the survivor with BO needs to stay around that location, this removing their ability to do gens elsewhere on the map, or help others around the map with anything really. And if you want to use the argument of "ok but there's more spots when you factor in survivors breaking hooks and body blocking!" Ok, that's just that much more time taken away from gens, giving you more pressure. It's the same argument for flashlight saves. And again tied into that, if BO wasn't what it is now, there's plenty of other ways (much more potent ways even) for a SWF to bully you.
Ultimately, the issue is not BO. It's that bully squads exist at all. If it wasn't BO it would be something else. This BO is a non issue, and when it is rarely an issue, it can be worked around
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I've seen 3, and I can intuit two more.
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A perk where the only counterplay is slugging someone to death is bad design. I don't understand why anyone defends it. It's bad enough we can get dead zones on a map. Now there's a perk that creates unhookable areas due to drops and doorways, even when there's only one survivor left in the match. It's more powerful than Breakout in some situations, and Breakout requires a second survivor to intervene and is counterable because of that.
Killers don't even get as many Bloodpoints for bleeding someone out as they do for sacrificing them on a hook. Why wouldn't they be annoyed that they go through the trouble of winning a chase only to get screwed out of the reward? On console/controller, that stagger has me moving at a snail's pace and getting stuck on every object. I don't know what it's like on M/KB.
Even if Boil Over is only used 1 out of 100 matches, it's bad perk design. It's unhealthy.
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It is not meta, for the sake that it doesn’t gen rush ans escape as safe as possible, as if you run 2nd chances perks can and loop broken maps/tiles that are connected one and another.
Although I can see the problem in which the killer can. In theory, it will pressure the killer more to be forced to slug and safely just let everyone die on the ground more.
Greifers might have some laughs here and there; but they will surely complain so much about bleeding out to death or using up their Unbreakables more often. I wonder why.....
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