How are you supposed to counter 3 second chance perks back-to-back?
I still don't want to play killer anymore, I've stopped a few months ago, but unfortunately, the tomes rarely have a path that allow you to progress through its levels purely playing survivor, so I played some killer games again, and got a taste of why I stopped in the first place.
I had a Dwight on the hook during endgame collapse. He got unhooked by the survivor I knew had borrowed time, so I countered by waiting 20 seconds to hit Dwight, the gate was far enough away for that. When BT ran out, he used DH in the gate, since I positioned myself ahead of him, he dead-harded away from the entity spikes, allowing me to down him and pick him up before he could reach the escape threshold. He then used DS and escaped.
What should I have done here? They told me afterwards that with the right counters, their perks are perfectly fine. What counters are there? This was the epitome of "#########, I screwed, but let's press this button to reverse my mistake, so the killer can't win".
He was unhooked unsafely --> Borrowed Time fixed that.
I waited out his Borrowed Time --> Dead Hard fixed that.
I screwed up his Dead Hard --> Decisive Strike fixed that.
I got 3 second chance perks shoved in my face back-to-back and some people still defend this bullshit as being fair? I did everything right here and I was still punished for it. This stuff leaves an extremely sour aftertaste. I don't feel outplayed or outmatched in skill when the survivor skill is basically: press a button to fix your mistakes.
Comments
-
When it comes to end game, a coordinated save with multiple survivors + BT is always difficult to stop. You can't counter or secure kills every time (... unless you're leather face).
But what you could've done here is hit the survivor unhooking and chase and downed them. That's what you should always try to do in this situation and rinse and repeat. You suggested you are far from the exit so that could've worked. In this situation you generally shouldn't go for the unhooked survivor precisely because of DS + BT.
18 -
You literally cannot which is why it is meta.
23 -
You cannot. The top 0.0001% of killers with the most competitive builds WILL lose 99.9999% of the time to the top 0.0001% of survivors with the most competitor builds.
It’s the reason multiple DH, Unbreakables, etc. are banned in top tournaments.
21 -
I see. They have second chance perks, so I'm not allowed to kill them.
Sorry, but that is what it boils down to and that is not ok.
0 -
Should've used Blood Warden.
4 -
During endgame with multiple survivors still alive it can be very difficult against a well coordinated team.
Dead hard: bait it out, or get close, wait a bit and hit (not lunge)
During game: don't chase the unhooked guy: you counter BT and DS. If the unhooked guy wants a hit because of BT then hit them and continue chasing the unhooker. You counter DS and the unhooked survivor will have to spend 15 seconds mending.
0 -
It's called "second chance" for a reason, you're not supposed to "counter" these perks
1 -
Ok. Which part of my post did you not read? He screwed up the dead hard, I downed him and picked him up because of that. Then there was DS.
0 -
Does that make them fair though? Because I keep hearing that argument, that they are fair, because they have counters. Obviously, in a scenario like mine, they do not, because there's always yet another second chance perk that will negate an unsuccessful use of the previous one.
0 -
I think they create more unfair scenarios than fair ones, but they seem necessary since without them there would be equally unfair scenarios.
2 -
you should have gone for the unhooker. seems like you went through more trouble than necessary to tunnel someone off hook instead of going after the i'm assuming 3 people going for the save.
Unhooking is an animation lock so you can easily hit whoever goes for the grab. And if the gate was as far away as you described, you could have easily gotten someone else. Tunnel vision lost you that situation
Post edited by RakimSockem on6 -
Ignore the majority of the killers in here. Anyone who says you cannot counter those perks is a baby killer and has no idea what they are talking about and their opinion is invalid.
Your first step to countering them begins at the killer selection screen. The survivor meta is far beyond the majority of the killer roster at this point, so leave playing the weaker characters to the chumps. SBMM doesn't allow for it anymore unless you like getting dumped on by perks instead of skill.
Second, anyone with a 1 shot can counter all three of those perks. BT/DS are useless if the survivors cannot make the unhook. Dead hard doesn't work on an instadown. Any 1 shot killer is a god tier camper and can easily secure kills without having to deal with the second chance chain so they are instantly at the top of the meta.
Third, there are a handful of characters strong enough to just plow through all the second chance perks. As Nurse and Blight I will eat DS for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and usually don't hesitate for a second to pick up a recently hooked survivor.
Fourth, there is a character called Pyramid Head in the game. He is the ultimate tunneling machine and farming people coming out of the cages brings the salt like no other since you can get multiple hooks in a row with impunity.
Fifth, there are some quite cheesy builds you can run that negate the meta. It's too many to list but they are out there.
2 -
I feel for you. If all 3 are there it can be hard to hit the unhooker. This is the particular reason i think DS should be canned during EG. You got punished for not tunneling the survivor earlier resulting in him having it at end.
1 -
This is not a counter. Hitting a survivor gives them a sprint burst that will reach the exit gate.
Coordinated end game saves have legitimately no counterplay for most killers, unlike the dribble parroted about Deathslinger.
3 -
I know it's real easy to blame perks when the situation was clearly just played wrong. In the time you spent waiting out BT, you could have easily hit and downed someone else
6 -
You aren't, they don't balance the game around you stacking second chance perks, I am pretty sure they balance the game around vanilla for survivors and gen slow down perks for killers.
1 -
End game BS like this is why killers are tunneling and camping more and more these days. It's easier and less frustrating to deal with the survivor meta when you tunnel and camp from the start and why Bubba is popular. You can't play nice and spread out hooks and hope to do well in endgame.
4 -
Look, your argument boils down to ignoring survivors because they either have or might have second chance perks. That is not a solution. DS got all of its deactivation condition precisely because the devs didn't want it to be such a perk: "ignore me for 60 seconds or get stabbed"
Wouldacouldashoulda doesn't help me or anyone in this situation. In situation, there was zero counter to anything, because each counter was countered itself by yet another perk and I don't see why that should be my fault in any capacity.
3 -
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. It happens in all walks of life. According to the meta, the Dwight earned that win. Right now that's just the way it is.
2 -
I appreciate the feedback, but that isn't a solution to me, that's a bandaid for a problem that shouldn't exist. I own all killers, I don't feel like restricting myself to just Nurse or Blight because the meta is broken.
0 -
And people still wonder why killers don't want to play anymore.
1 -
No. People don't wonder. We know exactly why the population is falling off. But you asked what you should do in that situation, and the only correct courses of action are to challenge the existence of DS (Which you did), or to target the unhooker and hope they don't have enough body blocks + Dead hard to get them out of the gate. It's a reality stacked against you even if you play your absolute best under both paths.
1 -
End game is not bs. Each side bring perks to help with their weaknesses. OP is whining because they coordinated a rescue.
9 -
You literally made a post asking how to counter 3 "second chance" perks and then asked, and I quote: "What should I have done here?"
Whether you like my answer or not, I answered your question. BT and DS would have been countered by attacking the person who did the unhooking instead of the person who got unhooked. From there, maybe they had dead hard but that perk is easy to bait out. The simple but hard truth is that you were so focused on going after the one person you wanted, that you didn't consider they had an anti-tunnel perk equipped.
I mean if you're just looking for confirmation bias and a bunch of fellow killer mains to say "you can't counter. all survivor perks OP. everything is against us" then you can just say that from the start and I'll keep my opinion to myself, but you asked a question and I gave you a straight answer
8 -
Look, if you're going to join in, at least make the basic effort of reading the original post. They didn't coordinate #########, that was all Dwight by himself.
1 -
Slug em, slug em all. Seriously though slugging beats out hook camping and tilts survivors beyond belief. Just down one survivor, then stand over them. Hit everyone who comes near. If they pick up just down them again. If they unbreakable just down them again as it's one time only.
Most survivors like running Dead hard, ds, iron will, and BT. Few actually run unbreakable and even fewer run unbreakable- + soul guard. If you leave them slugged they never get to use their bt and ds and it pisses them off cause they don't get to play at all. Is it boring? Yeah. But there's very little counters for slugging unless they have no mither. Which, let's be honest here 😂
3 -
Killer playing how survivors want them to play, which is being nice and not tunneling and camping, only to have it back fire on them because playing nice allowed those perks to take effect in endgame, is BS. Killers can't win with survivors no matter how they play. If they play by the Survivor Rule Book for Killers, they lose and get taunted at the exit gates and in chat, if they tunnel and camp to counter those perks, they get insulted.
As I said, if he tunneled the Dwight earlier in the match, he wouldn't have had to deal with DS in end game.
10 -
I did read, Dwight didn't unhook himself. So that means there was at least a second person. If there was only a second person then you got out played. Otherwise if there were multiple people trying to rescue it was a coordinated effort.
5 -
And then we have people like this.....
2 -
I'm not looking for an echo chamber. I'm looking for a reliable answer to my problem. You did give me an answer, but as far as I'm concerned, your answer is not the solution I'm looking for.
I did exactly what killers have been told to do in such situations for years: wait out borrowed time, bait out dead hard. The survivor screwed up twice, but instead of being allowed to capitalize on those mistakes, I was denied any progress to my objective because of yet another perk that fixes survivor mistakes.
I could have gone for someone else yes, but as I said before, that's giving them a free pass because they equipped a specific perk. That's not a solution to me and never will be. If you disagree with that, that's fine, we're both entitled to our respective opinions.
1 -
You do not have to camp and tunnel in order to win. If that is the only way you can win you are simply bad.
6 -
I went for a grab and got hit-cancelled, is that my fault too now, or what?
3 -
Exactly. I played nice and didn't tunnel and got punished for it in the endgame.
4 -
In which case you got burned by latency. Though that begs the question why not simple down and hook the rescuer.
3 -
that was literally my suggestion but it apparently wasn't the suggestion they wanted
2 -
Against solo potatoes who don't know how to do gens, you are correct. Against coordinated survivors who know how to do gens and know how to actually loop or even shift + W and pre-drop pallets, you are incorrect unless you're playing Nurse or Blight, and even then it's a struggle.
You and many other players just like to call killers bad in order to shame them from using those tactics whereas survivors are legendary players for crutching on 4 second chance perks and maps that are designed to give them an advantage over the killer.
Killers who tunnel and camp are not bad, its the survivors who fall due to those tactics that are bad. If the killer was really bad, the survivor should have no trouble distracting the killer long enough for the gens to pop, especially these days, with how 3 gens usually pop before a killer gets their first down.
4 -
Why do people here always paint survivors into 2 categories? It's always "4 potato solos" or "4 man coordinated swat team SWF". In the meantime, there are teams of solo players who can outplay you just as well andI'd bet 90% of SWFs are actually potatoes. This weird binary yall have in yall head of "Team is good = coordinated SWF. Team is bad = potato solos" is weird
3 -
I don't care what tactics they use. Tunneling and camping is lazy and used by bad killers. Will good killers use those tactics? Sure, but it's not their default. As for survivors DH is for lazy survivors who don't want to get better. The other meta perks exist solely to counter scummy tactics.
0 -
Doesn't matter if you care or not, if you fall due to the killers using those tactics, you're just as bad if not worse than the killers you're disparaging. And there is nothing bad or lazy about choosing the easiest path or making the smartest choice. It's actually bad, in regards to this game, to make the game more difficult for oneself by choosing the more difficult path. Actually, it's stupid.
4 -
I didn't mention SWF for a reason. It's because I know that there are good solo players almost as good as the best swfs. And yes, more often than not, bad teams are usually solos, and I know this because I only play solo and I'm usually the weak link since I'm bad at the game and can admit it, unlike many others who want to blame the world for their poor skill.
6 -
Well that's just the way it is. It's not a good answer, but it is the only answer. BHVR will never solve it, I have offered you the solution that works today. The weaker characters cannot deal with a 4-5 minute game where the survivors are handed a plethora of extra lives to go onto their default 3. It just doesn't work if the players are of somewhat equal skill.
Pyramid Head is probably your best bet if you don't like Nurse or Blight. The things you can do with him are downright filthy once you start to learn cage spawns. You can proxy camp cheese the cages, then relocate the cage to the other side of the map if the survivors congregate to rush it. You can tunnel tormented people straight off the hook and hitting BT is actually an advantage so they cannot locker DS you.
He is one of the few killers who can just roam around murdering people without having to worry about arbitrary perk timers.
2 -
Just get luckier
0 -
Kill them before the gates are powered, and they can't be so strong on the way out.
0 -
Honestly all you can do is try and get rid of DS by eating it earlier in the match, which means tunneling each survivor at least to 2nd hook state, one after the other since there's no way to tell if they have it until it's used.
1 -
This is why i eat their DS during the game itself. DS shouldnt activate in the end game anymore in my opinion.
3 -
Wait till borrowed time, bait dead hard and finally eat the ######### decisive strike and catch up, kill him, tunnel him out to death.
In other word, just play killers who can ignore DS... killers like blight, clown and nurse.
0 -
Winning is not BS. Each side has strategies that make up for their weaknesses. You're just whining because killers are actually smarter than you and outplay you at your own game everytime they know to counter your uncounterable triple stack of 2nd chance perks by tunneling the hell out of you before you'd ever get your chance to deploy them in endgame, where they are so powerful & where you'd be pretending that's because you're totally outplaying them there instead.
If you can't win without a psyops campaign challenging the abstract inherent worth of a win... well, you are complexly bad....
3 -
technically there's a precise counter for this, but it's unfun for both sides... tunnel to death the 1st guy that you see (unless he's a good looper). this is a soft counter btw cause they can always use their perks without a proper counterplay, but dealing with only 3 people in the endgame it's a lot more easier than defending a hook aganist a full premade with meta perks... i hate this kind of situations, but they won't leave you much choices. You can always try to deal with them with a endgame build, but this can work only if survivors want to have a 4 escape at all costs
3 -
I didnt got the information how you got there.
You didnt mentioned your killer.
I'm honest, when endgame happens and you think its unfair that you dont get the kill, maybe you should have done better in the match?
Being tunneled out isnt fun either (or in my opinion fair) and for anti tunneling you got these perks. That most say that they tunnel because of that... i dont believe you.
You shouldnt look just at the worst situation, you should look at the match as a whole.
0 -
Uhh I didn't say winning was bs? How am I whining? I stated my opinion, nothing more. Further they can't "outplay" my triple stack of perks that I don't use.
0
