There shouldn't be any measures to prevent killers from camping/tunneling
It's a feature of the game and most killers, especially C/D tier, use it to attempt to win matches. For certain killers it is even a 'cool strategy' as directly stated by a developer regarding Bubba.
Yes it's annoying especially several soloq games in a row but is an anti-camp/tunnel provision really a priority? Yes it is annoying - and after? Be angry for a short time - click continue - and play your next match.
Nothing happened.
I even found a super niche technique to prevent it from ever bothering you; just don't get bothered by it.
Just as it is the killer's fault if they let teabagging or flashlight macros get to them, as the developers clearly say, it is your fault if you let camping get to you. By the way, unfortunately with regard to Bubba's mask the developers did not have the courage of their convictions (if they were fully consistent, they would've told the people who were sent racist messages that slurs are just words, and to get over it).
Comments
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Yes it is annoying - and after? Be angry for a short time - click continue - and play your next match.
Nothing happened.
I even found a super niche technique to prevent it from ever bothering you; just don't get bothered by it.
The same could be said about slamming out gens too.😂
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Never seen such a bad excuse. Even for you.
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That feeling when you have zero hours on survivor.
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I had a Bubba face camp me yesterday. Team got me off the hook. We all escaped. Players are finding strategies to combat face camping and I'm loving it.
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Sad that most survivors feel so entitled to escapes that they can't contrive new strategies such as you do. Sad!
Personally as someone who has all survivor adept achievements, I haven't been scared of a Bubba ever since I got to 100% pallet stun effectiveness against his power.
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Funny thing is I'm in solo queue all the time... No SWF. We're learning. 🙂
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Survivor adepts are some of the easiest achievements in the game and are completely irrelevant to your point.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again and maybe even another time! Camping/tunneling really can't be removed without hurting innocent killers not doing that (and there are times when camping/tunneling IS the best play like EGC; ######### else am I going to do when the gates are powered up?).
That said, what I really want is for the camped to get points for it. I play solo so it's always a coin flip whether the poor bastard caught first will stick around or just suicide on hook once they realize it's camping time. They have no loyalty to me or any reason to stick around besides being a nice person who will waste 2 minutes of their life to try to help a stranger win a video game and many choose not to do that, which just rewards the campers and screws everyone else since burning a facecampers time is the only chance a team has against them
Survivors who make that sacrifice deserves bp
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I'd agree that mechanically BHVR shouldn't try to stop tunneling or camping (aside possibly from facecamping, just because it's so, so dumb.) However making more anti-tunnel or anti-camp perks? They absolutely should. This game is best, imo, when there are a lot of options for each side to try to counter the other. As tunneling is a legit playstyle for killers, builds to prevent tunneling should be viable for survivors. The difficulty is balancing it so there is still agency and skill involved.
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I enjoy the macro GP of camping/ tunneling someone in competitive, but that primarily comes due to bt and ds. Its always a gamble. Without those perks that give players an edge when that occurs it would be quite a bit more boring i think. What id love to happen is for several ways to combat c/t to pop up through different perks. It would be refreshing. Perks like kinship and for the people are great for that but i feel like i rarely see them.
Basement bubba is far less fun and that comes from the fact that as long as bubba doesnt make a significant mistake, there isnt really a way to punish let alone stop him camping. I find the sentiment that basement bubba is a "risky/fun" playstyle antithetical to all of what i mentioned above imo.
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It's obvious that camping is a good strategy (if you disagree I will assert you have 0 hours as killer which magically makes it true).
Basement Bubba is really a blessing for 3/4 survivors as it allows them to pop gens and leave without any risk. 3/4 survivors + the killer = 4/5 players having a good time, which means objectively that basement bubba is 80% good, 20% bad. Most strategies wish for that kind of success rate.
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Sure, I'm on board with this idea. At the same time though, killers should not get to use any perks that slow down gen progression, because C / D tier survivors are already struggling enough as is to get the generators done.
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I even found a super niche technique to prevent it from ever bothering you; just don't get bothered by it.
Don't enjoy the game? There's a super niche technique to prevent it from ever bothering you: Just don't get bothered by it!
Annoyed at anti-tunnelling and anti-camping measures? Just don't be annoyed!
Getting frustrated because survivors bully the crap out of you? Just don't get frustrated!
Worst 'excuse' ever.
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- Get tunneled/camped -> "Not a fun game for me, but next game hopefully is fun."
- Repeat 1. 10 times
- Uninstall dbd
Why is my killer queue so long?
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Hey - you copied me - should i feel honored?
But you are right :-)
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I don't think I've ever been in queue as killer for longer than it takes to take a few sips of my drink. I've had survivor queues that lasted longer than an episode of Reno911 however.
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Try playing at night/in the morning.
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I do. I've played at pretty much all times from 9am-3am CST. The worst queue times are in the 9-11am range for me, but even then I can't make it from my couch to the fridge and back before a game is found. Survivor side I only get queues that fast from 5-9pm
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Weird. For me ( in europe ) my queue times as killer as basically only good from 6pm to 1am, and in return the survivor queue times are ass during that.
But my argument stands anyways.
Getting camped is not fun for the side that gets camped and if that happens enough that player will stop playing. Endorsing unfun gameplay is the dumbest thing i can think of in regards to making or designing games.
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Depending on the day of the week I'm playing in the afternoon, evening, night - central EU.
Most of the time I get my killer lobbies instantly, like "click ready, 3, 2, 1, lobby". 30 seconds are already a long wait time for me.
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The devs never said they think Bubba literally facecamping is “a cool strategy”. In fact they explicitly said they think actual face camping is an issue if people think it’s a viable way to win because it leads to a dull gameplay for both the killer and the survivor stuck on hook for two minutes, and that they’ve experimented internally with ways to incentivize not face camping but hadn’t found a practical solution that didn’t break something else in the game.
So they don’t think actual facecamping is cheating or bannable, etc, but they also want the game itself to steer killers away from doing it to promote more active styles.
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I really don't know what to say to this so I just say no.
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We don't need safeties, it is and should be on survivors to avoid the killer.
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Basement bubba is a blessing for 3/4 survivors if they care about nothing in-game except leaving through the exit gates. AFK wraith would also be great for all 4 survivors if this is the case. For survivors who don't think M1 to fix gen M1 to open door are the most exciting parts of the match it's pretty dull for them too.
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A dev is literally quoted as labeling Insidious Bubba "a dangerous strategy". And he was not referring to it being dangerous for the survivors.
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The title of tour thread, whether you're trolling or not, is poorly worded.
There are no measures to prevent camping and tunneling. There is only counterplay and perks that assist those efforts.
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Even assuming you have the quote right, how does “dangerous” equal “cool”? 🤨
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I really doubt you get 100% stuns on Bubba's that use their power at pallets. It's somewhat bugged right now so even when you get the stun points he will often not actually get stunned and instead break the pallet. (Same with Demogorgon).
And yes, BT and other anti-camping perks should exist so killers don't start doing this:
(credit to my shameless* past-self).
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The original statement from the devsincluded both, as in 'dangerous but cool'.
However, iirc the actual wording was 'risky but cool'.
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Until we make chasing viable for all killers, we can't nerf camping or tunneling. It would be this game's end.
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Good news!
There aren't any measures to prevent killers from camping/tunneling!
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I don't think BHVR CAN fix this problem at all, no worries.
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This game needs to get new players to survive. At the lowest rank of dbd the game is considered killer sided, so they should stay.
At low ranks camping will probably stop people playing this game. They are already bad at looping and don't understand why camping is still in the game. If you get your mates to play this game, it's incredibly challenging to explain why I can't save them vs a camping Bubba, Trickster or Hag.
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Well yeah, trickster and hag? Those are easy saves.
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Do you have a link? I can't find anything like that on Google.
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@Dionysus42 keep that same Ghandi energy the next time someone verbally assaults you, your mother, or the woman/man you love in person. When your loved one gets offended, remind them “it’s just words.”
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Not really lol easy in basement. Especially at low ranks also where players don't have access to the anti-camping perks.
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I dunno. I find hag to be almost stupidly easy, crouch through the traps, flashy flashy the one in front of the hook, and you're good to go.
As far as basement and trickster, while his ranged potential is threatening, I don't think he's that much more difficult than any other killer. Honestly I'd say huntress would be the harder killer to save from, as she only needs to land two hatchets, rather than 12.
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Well that's not a camping Hag if your able to crouch through all her traps.
Trickster has to hit 12 knives but unlike Huntress if he misses a shot, it doesn't really matter. Also a camping Trickster builds up main event stupidly easy.
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Wait, you mean a hag who is actually there camping at the hook? That's an m1 killer.
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And this is why BHVR doesn't take the community suggestions seriously.
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I posted it on your wall. I want to avoid that some overzealous mod could misconstrue it as being naming'n'shaming if I put it there.
Turns out the original quote was "cool... dangerous... but neat" sort of.
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Thanks, whoever made that video is kind of cringe honestly since it’s just a bunch of out of context clips of the dev doing something wrong in a match or whatever. Comes across as someone who just has an axe to grind with the guy.
Anyway, since the clip is cut off, for reference it sounds like he’s coming from the context of thinking Insidious having a use is “neat but dangerous” (the video doesn’t go on so I have no idea if he says anything else, but by dangerous it sounds like he means risky for Bubba since he’s not pushing anybody off the gens by doing it.)
Note though that more recently the devs have also officially in the actual dev chats talked at length about experimenting with ways to limit face camping but hadn’t found a solution yet that seemed effective but that didn’t cause additional problems. They didn’t give specifics, but I wouldn’t be surprised if for example the mechanic Pyramid Head’s Cages use where the cage moves to a new spot when he’s nearby was an offshoot of something they were thinking of trying with hooks to limit face camping. (That’s total speculation on my part but it makes sense they would try a mechanic as a back door pilot of sorts to implement elsewhere. They did something similar with Wiggle checks on Cages becoming the standard for wiggles during carries for example.)
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I don't have any feelings toward the clip, I was just providing a reference from where the quote came from as it was requested.
Regarding the devs alluding at addressing facecamping, I'll believe it when I see it. There have been many ideas about changes in DbD over the years that have seemingly been gone and forgotten. We shall see if this one is any different.
Your suggestion is one possible solution, but also dangerously dependent on the killer power itself. Ironically, it doesn't work for the very killer it was implemented for, i.e. cage relocation activates when closer than 5m to a cage, but PH's POTD has a base range of 8m. The killer can simply stand at outside relocation trigger ares with the power cocked'n'loaded and instantly redown upon uncaging. Hooks would be a little more lenient, because hook perks proc, but ranged killers will still pose an issue.
Personally, I think the easiest way to go about it is to remove hook grabs and interruptions, which are an ill-designed mechanic that does reward facecamping. The action is started without channeling and the rescuer should stay locked in the animation (very much like killers do when picking up) and that's it. Camping and non-camping killers will still get a 1 for 1, but the camper won't be able to force a 2nd stage by threatening grabs, or any other sort of action interrupting actions (e.g. Doc spamming shocks, but there are many others), or even by getting a grab and slugging under the hook. This change would be neutral for non-facecampers, while still leaving proxy'ing relatively unchanged, as in the devs' intentions.
bUt ThEn SuRvIvOrS wIlL jUsT fArM iN mY fAcE (I can already hear that coming from somewhere in the fog). Well, no #########. Saving in the face of a facecamper is the only way of saving. If one isn't facecamping, then it won't matter that much.
Notice that hilariously, Bubba would still be able to do (most) of what he could do now. But that's an issue with his own specific design that the devs simply refused to fix.
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It's up to the Survivors to stop the Camping and Tunneling... Cause it's a thing that's in the game
Getting less BP is the only downside the doing it... While some players do care about BP gain Vs. loss... The fact that "winning" Vs "losing" matters more
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Couple thoughts.
1. As you noted, that would do literally nothing against the character most often used to facecamp.
2. Yes, they would farm, they would go for unhooks while being chased, so it wouldn't just affect face camping, that sort of change would impact any form of hook defense.
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Just to clarify, I’m not necessarily suggesting the hooks move like cages, I’m saying it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s something they experimented with internally given they already implemented it for Cages to avoid face camping those.
Also in terms of Bubba, the main thing about him facecamping is his ability to instant down survivors, even through Borrowed Time possibly. Even a hook trade against him risks both survivors being downed immediately. If they want to specifically mitigate that scenario, they could maybe at least limit Bubba’s chainsaw to one kill and then he goes into tantrum. It would be a slight nerf but not a big one since the great majority of the time he only gets one kill per chainsaw use anyway. But it would make it a bit safer to hook trade against him since it would given the rescued survivor more time to run away.
Generally speaking though literal face camping isn’t normally as effective as being more proactive at pressuring and downing survivors doing the gens. Ideally you want one person hooked, one going for a rescue, and one being chased at all times so that at most one survivor is free to work on gens. That significantly slows them down, and then once you have a kill the same cycle means they potentially have either nobody on gens or nobody doing a rescue during a chase which is when it snowballs. Camping a hook is mostly for the cases when the survivor is already close to going down a hook stage, then you don’t lose a ton of time if you wait a few seconds to make sure they don’t get a last second save.
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- As I mentioned in the end, Bubba's facecamping is matter in its own regard. He is so well-built for facecamping that any general solution to facecamping is doomed to fail if it's not tailor-made for him. The rational approach would be to see if (stress on the conditional if) he can be fixed. As a matter of fact, many people on this board seem to defend his ability to facecamp, so this conversation will probably be sterile.
- I was wary of making it clear that proxying will be 'relatively' unchanged. In a machine with so many parts in motion as DbD, no change can be assured to be 100% surgical on one single aspect without at least affecting a tiny bit of something else. It's all a matter of making sure everything is balanced out. Unhooks while in chase already happen currently and it's generally a bad play from the survivors' part regardless. I.e. they're making me a favor as killer when that happens, as far as I'm concerned. So, I don't see it as big source of concern personally, but ymmv. The difference is that certain killers can stop them, normally those killers that are already good at camping in general, while others most often than not can't anyway. My solution would balance the playing field if anything.
Regarding your last paragraph, I disagree. Maybe facecamping isn't the best course of action (most of the time), but camping the very first hook almost always is. Baiting out a rescue bypasses the need to look for another target while you ensure you're defending one of your resources. The survivors come to you for the rescue, possibly more than one. Then you be non-committal about chasing the first rescuer and someone else must come. Then you facecamp into second stage. You took people off gens with minimal effort.
A good mix of a strong killer with a slowdown+endgame perks seals the deal. This is and has always been the optimal strategy and essentially overwhelming in pubs. It backfires only when survivors go full depip squad and simply don't go for altruism by default. But even then, you can mostly ensure a 2k at 2 hooks. And MMR will pat you on the shoulder.
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Unhooks in chase do happen now, but with the grab, I (as killer) can stop the unhook, hook the player who made the bad play, and perhaps help them learn why such an unhook is a bad idea. If I can't grab them or shock them to interrupt, then my next best option will be to go for the recently unhooked, which rewards the bad play of the survivor who likely did the unhook mid-chase to get away, and makes for a less fun experience for the survivor who was "saved" only to immediately be back up, another hook state down.
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We’ll have to agree to disagree on how effective literal facecamping the first hook is.
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