Survivor mains: convince me that it is actually bad strategy to camp and tunnel
I have been playing dbd since the beginning of february now. I am almost iridescent 1 on killer, which I main for 80% of my games playing pyramid head, trickster, and pig. I basically only play survivor for dailies or if I have friends that want to join.
Let me explain some things in detail:
- I do not facecamp. Facecamping is bad strategy. It gives the other 3 survivors tons of free time to do gens and find my totems.
- I DO tunnel. I tunnel A LOT. If I hook someone, go check a couple of gens, then get the unhook notification, I am going to chase them both down and then choose to hit the person who is injured. Most of the time, that is the person who was just unhooked. If both are injured, I'll hit whoever is closest.
- If there are only 1 or 2 gens to go and I have someone on second hook, I'm not leaving. I will not stand in front of them without moving, but I'm not leaving the area. Can you convince me that there is a better play than this?
- If I am leaving the area to patrol gens after scoring a hook and I see someone lurking for the save, I am no longer leaving. As pyramid I can get an easy punishment of the damned collateral. With pig I can stealth around the hook and get an easy grab. That's not camping, that's the consequence of bad survivor play.
- If I am chasing an injured player who has been unhooked, I will completely ignore healthy survivors that are clicking flashlights or trying to block me until I down the injured survivor. If someone is actually impeding my progress by standing directly on me, I'll take the free hit. But as soon as I take that free hit I am back to chasing the original, hook stated survivor.
- If I am up against a team running a sabotage/flashlight save strategy, I will leave people slugged all over the place until the flashlight or toolbox holder is out of commission. Why would I not, if it just removes the effectiveness of the items that were brought? Yes, unbreakable is a risk, but I rarely see more than one person running it at a time recently. It's usually DH BT DS and then either Iron will or CoH.
- In conclusion, as killer every decision you make takes time. Your time is worth 4X more than a survivor's time. But kicking one player from the game as soon as possible knocks that value down to 3X. Which makes it easier to knock down to 2X. And so on, this is how the killer wins. In my eyes, this is efficient gameplay.
- Perks like devour hope, BBQ, and make your choice incentivize a more run and gun playstyle away from your hooks. I know that they exist, but I'm not here to farm bloodpoints with BBQ. I am here to hit rank 1 ASAP
I will await your responses, as playing like this gives me consistent 3 and 4ks, and consistent elo and mmr boosts.
Comments
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Tunnel bad
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You got me. I am going to change my playstyle immediately now :(
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Honestly? I imagine your are the type of killer a survivor actually ones to play against. You are so polite despite your primary goal to get someone out of the game the fastest. But they are used to that from killers that do not give them free space. Lol.
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Everything has a time and place. It all depends on when you're doing it and what the circumstances are. Can't really answer those questions that broadly. I can give you example though:
The 4 man SWF I play with has about 10k hrs between us. There isn't much we haven't seen. A Trapper tried to basement camp last weekend. I managed to trade hooks with the first player to get my Deliverance active. He then hooked me and camped me in the basement. My teammates did another 3 gens and I used Deliverance right before I went into struggle. Then I went into a locker with DS active as the last gen popped. He waited out my DS and I died while my teammates escaped. 4 hook stages total and a 1k for the basement camp strategy.
Point being, camping and tunneling are totally viable in the right situation against the right squad. But as your MMR increases you're going to encounter teams that force a tactical change on your part. It's good to be able to play other styles as the situation dictates.
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...
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Thanks for coming to the forums to defend your playstyle. I'm sure everyone secretly needed this information. 3 weeks into the game and you know it all I'm impressed.
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Recently, I have been getting a lot better about spotting who has BT, DS, and other hook perks so I can play accordingly. P-head helps a lot for that. Deliverance I have yet to run into, but wow that sounds like an incredible play, if I was that trapper I would not have waited out the ds lol
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inb4 he gets hit by flashlight, bt, ds, bodyblock, bodyblock, bodyblock (various flashlights in between)
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Had some camping and tunneling killers today - it totally works - and is considered high skill.
So... nothing to say.
Oh - one thing: Survs don´t like that!
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Yeah waiting out the DS was a mistake on his part, especially because he had NOED. Could have managed a 2k if he ate the DS, downed me again, and caught another at the gate.
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I certainly don't know it all yet, tile spawns are still pretty foreign to me and I am an utterly garbage survivor due to playing 80% killer
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Nothing wrong with playing optimally. Atleast you aren't someone crying the game is survivor sided. I can't be mad at someone actually playing to win lol keep it up, you are already a much better killer main than most, and I've seen quite a few silly gooses in my almost 5 years of maining killer
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I'm not a survivor main but I don't see flaws in your tactics unless you want to massively improve as a killer.
But since your goal is to hit rank 1 yeah, no a single flaw, I guess people ######### talking you but I mean that happens extremely often these days.
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I have noticed that this game is like "all is fair in love and war", so if I want to play ruthlessly as killer, I can't get mad if survivors want to bodyblock, sabotage, or blind me. We're both trying to win. I think "killer sided" or "survivor sided" only has to do with certain maps in this game. Midwich seems really killer sided. The game and eyrie of crows seem really surv sided
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Camping is a bad strat - against coordinated teams. At lower MMR against non-SWF teams, it can be highly effective.
Tunneling, provided you can actually catch your target in a timely fashion, is probably the most effective killer strat there is. It just feels slimy, especially if done early. To pull a match back in the mid-late game, it feels fine.
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Best advice I can give....lower your killer play a bit to make yourself more even. Tiles IMO are easier to learn on the survivor side as killer has so much ######### going through their head. Playing survivor helps you play killer and vise versa. I was just like you when I started...My first like 2000 hrs was pure killer. Thought I was better than I was (Matchmaking had something to do with that as well) now I know I'm as good as I think I am and that's because I play 50/50 now.
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Well, when it comes to the people I know playing survivor, they get camped and tunneled a couple games during the day (when their queues are instant and killer queues are long as crap), they get tired of it and go play something else. (Except one friend, who wants to get tunneled out first thing because he wants all four survivors to die and a 3v1 at 5 gens is a killer win; even playing survivor he hates other survivors.) So, if that happens with a bunch of survivors getting fed up and quitting, killers spend more time in queues playing fewer matches altogether. Meaning it's not necessarily a bad strategy for winning, but it's a bad strategy if you want to play the game in general.
But that depends on what time of day you play. If you play killer at night when queues are instant, then I guess it doesn't matter. That's when I play killer, because waiting more than 30 seconds in a queue to play DbD isn't worth it.
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I'll try to play more survivor to learn the tiles and stuff. My poor bloodpoint wallet
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I've noticed that this game is a good representation of all's fair in love and war. I can play ruthlessly as killer, so I can't get angry if the survivors bring 3 brand new parts with built to last. We're both playing to win. As for killer or survivor sided, I think those ideas only really apply to maps in this game. For example midwich seems really killer sided. And the game, or eyrie of crows seem really survivor sided.
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I'm primarily killer but play quite a bit of survivor (30% to 40%) but here's my opinion.
1. 100% agree. The survivors want an efficient use of their time and you want to prevent efficient use of time.
2. Whether tunneling is efficient depends on a few factors? Are they running DS? BT? Is there a COH up? If someone unhooks in front of me I slug the unhooked and go after the unhooker. That's a minimum of 3 survivors completely occupied; one slugged, one heading to heal, one on hook. If you just hook the previously hooked you now have two survivors instead of three tied up (the hooked and one unhooker) or just one (the other survivors just go and do gens).
3. Proxy camping is the best play most of the time here and the most likely scenario. If you move too far away you lose the gen so you'll probably hook close by. However, you can rehook a survivor but you can't undo a completed gen. Prioritize as necessary
4. Unless a gen is about to complete there is no practical reason to leave. If you do you're being nice but there is no reason to leave if someone is lurking right by. If you can handle hook swarming you may be able to hook trade or slug enough to end the game right there.
5. They're trying to prevent the unhooked from getting hooked again. Unless DS or BT is in play the only practical reason to switch targets is if you can down someone else faster or if you can get multiple injuries. Your goal is to waste survivor time; chasing a good survivor could be a waste of time. Good loopers are a lot easier to kill once their friends are dead.
6. Slugging is a great way to slow survivors down. It also gives altruism points for healing when picked up. I like slugging and being slugged.
7. Depending on the circumstances tunneling is not always the most efficient way to waste time. If the survivors have BT and DS then you BT takes 12 seconds at least, DS takes 5 seconds plus the chasing time. Also, only the tunneled survivor needs healing so only a unhooked and unhooker. In the best case for you there is one injured survivor, one healing the injured, one hooked and another trying to unhook ergo nobody on gens. That might be more valuable than another hook state on the unhooked survivor
8. Spreading out hook states and doing a lot of chasing is more efficient to get to Iridescent One. It's based on emblems, not MMR. Forcing a higher MMR makes getting to Iri One harder as you get harder matches and less hooks (not hook states) means less emblems. If you want MMR then playing in the most efficient way to get MMR hinders your ability to get emblems. You can be low MMR and still Iridescent One. So, you just have to decide what's more important to you; increasing your MMR or getting to Iri One.
Pretty much both tunneling and camping are dependent on both the circumstances and the goals you want to achieve. They might be the right call, they might not.
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That is an interesting conundrum in this game that mmr does not equal rank, I have noticed I get games where I win so hard that 2 or more survivors dc, and i get no rank progress because they didn't do gens
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It's not, it's just not fun or the most skillful.
It's why I wish we really encouraged go for lots of separate hooks, sadly the game can go too fast to do that so I get it.
Just a shame the games going in this direction
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Yeah, there's a wiki page detailing exactly what you need to do (search DbD emblems) and if you, for example, 4K but with only 4 hooks and short chases you may depip even though all the survivors are dead. To pip up, 8 hooks with 0K is preferable to 4K with 4 hooks until Gold emblems I think it is. 4K with 4 hooks is inferior to nearly every other combination with 6 hooks or so.
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Finally, someone who enjoys the macro of tunneling. Although i do wonder how much fun you have doing this, cuz i get way too invested way too quickly playing ultra comp.
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part of how I have fun with it is if I'm playing P-head I just imagine that whoever I'm tunneling is james sunderland. or if I play nemesis, the person I'm tunneling is Leon and I just turn into a monkey thinking "STARRRRS" as I stomp after the guy
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Wow, I bet with your at most 200 hours you're probably ready to go full comp, you seem to have understood everything of the game already
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I think you're probably being sarcastic but I just hit 100 hours yesterday
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No I'm serious you're clearly ready to join a comp team
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If you read my posts, you'd see that I am awful at survivor, so no I'm not going to do competitive lmao
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Yes but your killer skill is definitely outstanding you don't need to play survivor in a comp team you can just bea killer main
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@egg_ is doing a little trolling, but 100 hrs is still very good imo for some of the concepts you have grasped.
However, now that i have read through your post more precisely, there are a lot of rough edges, but i have to say you miss the concept of pressure near entirely. A rule of thumb when it comes to pressure is to ask "how many survs can they afford to leave on gens if there are no mistakes are made?" Then you will come to the realisation that tunneling alone wont suffice in matches where survs care less about bp and pips and more about winning.
Oh yeah, read @TheSubstitutes comment onto why you might not want to play like that if its only about the grade.
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Since I subject myself to some solo Q every now and then....
First is that high MMR is a bad thing. You have nothing to gain in DBD by playing more skilled opponents, not even bragging rights since it's totally hidden. Easier opponents means more hooks which means more bloodpoints per minute.
Second, once you get to high MMR you will realize there IS no other strategy than camping and tunneling since the games are completed in 4-5 minutes sometimes and you will be forced into the playstyle rather than choosing it. Camping is also low skill gameplay (even if I love doing it).
Third, the game has very lackluster balance; and the MMR system is usually negated due to que time imbalances. That makes it very, very easy to go into a match with either a build that is complete overkill or one with no chance in hell. The solution to that as a killer is to just bring overkill and tunnel off the rip every game; which it sounds like you are doing. But in reality you are usually just winning the game off 1 person's mistakes and your OP build rather than actually outplaying the team or being better than them as a player.
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It's a waste of time trying do so as it is literally impossible, this is not a game with actual depth or anything.
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I'm not against it. I'm just not a fan of getting hooked, unhooked and then tunneled out of the game in the game's first two minutes. I honestly think that makes the game not worth playing at that point.
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Tunneling only works if you can get them back down fast if they can continue to run you it will backfire. Camping only works if the survivors make it work if they smash gens chances are you'll walk out with 1k and like 9k BP.
I generally start tunneling around 2 gens because someone has to leave the game now or it's going to be rough.
Also if you get unhooked in front of me and I go after the unhooker and you try to flashy save I will tunnel you I gave you a chance and you ran right back at me your not getting 2.
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Its a great strategy and it should be nerfed.
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But why? because you don't want to lose?
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This exactly.
Well said.
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It won't work against competent survivors. While you're focusing on one player they'll be knocking out the gens left and right. By the time you actually get the one you focused on dead the last gen will be ready to pop.
Even if you manage to catch another before the gates open they will likely borrowed time or DS their way to freedom along with body blocks from their team mates.
You really want games where you babysit a hook for most of the match?
Against potatoes this strategy works. But then again against potatoes you don't need to do it.
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Tunneling is a comp strategy so you can join a comp team RIGHT AWAY.
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Exactly and this is honestly such a good view of it. The game itself isn't really survivor or killer sided, but there are things that can be used that skew it in either direction.
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