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Something needs to be done about bubba’s ability to facecamp
I played 5 games today after not playing for 3 weeks and 2 of them were bubba’s that facecamp. Bubba is a fun killer to play against but all games end up the same with a bubba camping a survivor at 4 gens because they looked at him funny.
His basekit is fine but something has to be done about his ability to facecamp, especially when a survivor is hooked in the basement. Not even BT can save someone if the bubba doesn’t screw up.
What bhvr could do is that if a bubba uses his chainsaw within 5 meters of a hooked survivor, they only lose 1 healthstate so hooked survivors actually have a chance to play the game. Survivors would also not be able to abuse it because of the short 5 meter range. Thoughts?
Comments
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Agree but disagree. Survivors should be punishable for getting hooked in the basement. And as we know, camping can be done by all killers - Bubba is just best at it.
If it were up to me, killer powers disabled within 12m of all hooks except basement hooks and during end game. (Cue killer main freak out)
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What would you think about Bubba's chainsaw hitting the Endurance status effect forcing it into a hard stop, so survivors with BT on them could escape?
Contesting hooks in general should be a viable option so I don't like the idea of just stopping him from doing that no matter the circumstance, but this change would make it so a skilled survivor can get the rescue off and force a trade if he decides to facecamp, which would bring him in line with how effectively most other killers can facecamp.
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I'm not sure about your suggestion but I agree that something should be done. If you think back to the days where all killers could literally facecamp with no possibility of a save... well Bubba's facecamping (isn't quite the same thing but) is close enough to warrant a change for the same reasons as to why swivel hooks now exist.
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I definitely think something needs to change with him. It's happening way too often and it's a complete snoozefest. Other killers have had their powers changed or designed with respect to camping and here is Bubba.
I think they'll have to make his tantrum happen super quick within 8 meters of the hook and change tantrum hits to single health state deep wound hits that consume all charge and end tantrum immediately.
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I think they should do the same thing with Bubba's chainsaw that they did with crows. Can't be used in certain distance of a hook.
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I think that's somewhat fair, but only if there isn't another survivor within those 12 meters. Because, yes, smart survivors would abuse the hell out of that.
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Well, then it would do nothing in the case of facecamping Bubba. The point is killers can still defend hooks pre-end game, but only with basic attacks. End game they obviously don't have anymore generators to patrol, so camping is fair.
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Three suggestions to end Camping Cannibals or camping dilemmas:
- Remove Hook Grabs on healthy survivors. M1 trading or grabbing injured survivors is still fine.
- Remove Cannibals ability to down multiple survivors in one sweep. The sweep ends on first contact. If he hits a BT survivor, it stops the sweep to cooldown (not tantrum)
- Remove / End his chainsaw abilities in a radius around hooks.
I think hooks are already where survivors are at their most vulnerable. Then the game mechanics makes them even more susceptible to attack.
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I think the other 3 survivors should do gens and leave.
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A bandaid fix with perks is not the way to go, they have been doing that for years and most problems are still a problem, its time they get over the "a perk may fix this" mindset and start adresing the myriad of problems this game has.
Either they make it so facecamping is much easier to punish or they have to gut Leatherface.
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Well, we have had some hints that some form of BT may become basekit. If that involves the Endurance status effect, then it won't be a bandaid fix with a perk.
The problem is that making facecamping too easy to punish or gutting Leatherface would have a dramatically worse effect on the game than the existence of facecamping currently does. It's a problem to be solved very, very carefully.
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The problem with making facecamping easier to punish stirs from the bandaid fix mindest, you make it so gens go faster if camping then they go godspeed while someone distracts the Killer near the hook, which is a problem on itself that was "fixed" by making perks like Ruin/PGTW, "fixed" problems that are not really fixed, gens still go really fast if you dont apply pressure at the begining. If they find a way to make facecamping easy to punish without harming normal gameplay it would be the way to go as it will only apply to that situation.
The BT basekit is not a bad idea but it wont solve Leatherface problem (or facecamping at all, right now you only can trade hooks with BT).
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Issue is there is such a variety in killer powers this doesnt work that well. Nurse without her power is slower than survivors so I can definetly see some kind of a camraderie build for SWFs to bully Nurse by just running them around it. Trickster is the complete opposite their facecamping ability will be near identical sinces its ranged same applies to PH. Billy and Blight if they want to get away from a hook now have to wait longer. Also on maps with verticality how would it work because if it still works above you imagine your power cutting out mid chase cause you hooked someone beneath you, If you then go with it not appling above there is a lot of hooks to facecamp from above. Its a good idea in theory but practically a blanket fix like that would not work.
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It wouldn't change anything. Suppose Bubba can't use his chainsaw within 12 metres anymore of a hook.
Okay, and? Bubba's will just stand 13 metres away, camp, and immediately start reving their chainsaw and use it if you commit to a save. By the time you've completed the animation, Bubba has downed you and procked BT off the rescued survivor. Now, you're hooked, repeat and rinse - best case scenario, you're trading hooks and only one of you dies, but the experience remains the same.
So in the end, you can't really fix it. Limiting a killers power around hooks isn't particularly fair because it can be easily abused when people like Twins/Artist can't actually properly defend hooks against stupid altruism.
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There isn't enough time for three other survivors to do all gens and escape especially if the killer brought Deadlock + No Way Out to use with NOED (Also not enough time to cleanse all 5 totems to prevent NOED).
Face camping with Bubba is the easiest way to guarantee zero effort kills that's why so many killers are doing it lately and it's why cannibal has such high kill rates but nobody wants to talk about all of that.
Just do gens and leave 4head
I honestly just play something else bcuz it seems like killers don't want you to even play the game anymore.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on1
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Then it needs to be refined. While camping definitely needs to be addressed, a Survivor also shouldn't be able to just run in front of a killer and get an unhook unpunished. Simply turning off powers within 12 meters isn't balanced for both sides enough.
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I know something that can be done! Gens.
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Bubba is the only killer in the game with the ability to secure 1 kill no matter how bad the Killer may play. Often when survivors play toxic or abuse maps with obviously broken jungle gyms, Bubbas tend to shift their objective from winning the game to punishing the survivor. It is very tempting because DBD is built in a way in which players often lose their temper - something that is very common in all competitive online games. Bubba's design just makes it far too easy to play "unfair".
I main bubba but even I think he needs a rework for how easy it is to face camp with him.
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I think the majority of good killers have been "playing something else" and all thats left are the newbs. I came back a bit when pin head released but that lasted for a week. Besides those brief reappearances i havent really played dbd in the last 2 years. It just isnt fun anymore and bhvr certainly isnt improving the game. Or every time they do something good they screw up 2 other things.
Post edited by EvilJoshy on2 -
He is fine how he is. This game doesn't need another gutted reworked killer on the roster and it definitely doesn't need more killers that get their powers disabled near hooked survivors.
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Noooooooo. Nooo. Noooooo. Noo. No. No. No. Noooooooooooooooooo.
Some kind of chainsaw noises here...
FC is not nice but doesn´t need a change. Sometimes you just have bad luck. Hang in there with pride helping your team and go on to the next game.
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I’m waiting for the dh nerf and bt basekit. Then you'll see how overcome will be meta because overcome activates if the killer hit you while bt is active and killers would cry. And all of this because of face camping. Try overcome and you’ll see it, it will kill m1 killers
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Incorrect. Overcome only activates when going from healthy to injured. It does not apply to the endurance status effect.
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Overcome is activated with bt now
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Oh, survivors... Never change.
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When did this change? Shadow buff? I coulda sworn it didn’t used to work that way.
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I can be wrong, but I don’t think so. It was always this way
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Its funny because it has the easiest solution that has been done to killers that have WAY less threat around hooks. The Artist can't even put birds around a hook.
Just make bubba's tantrum slowly gain while around like 12 meters of a hook
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Might as well just make it so he cannot activate chainsaw within x meters if they want survivors to get free unhooks against a killer with the niche of denying free unhooks. Why even overcomplicate matters?
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Nothing when its done by someone bombing the hook and going for unsafe saves without waiting for Killer to go away but it shouldnt be the best outcome of a facecamping scenario.
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That's not even"killer main freak out" that's just bad game design
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Mandy confirmed in this thread a month ago it’s only supposed to trigger on healthy to injured:
So that’s the latest intel I have. But I see the wiki shows a video of it working with endurance.
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I played weeks ago a lot with this perk and it activated with endurance. And not only this. If someone unhooked you and with the endurance status you were trapped and trapper hit you, you suddenly started running and overcome activates. This happened without overcome too, bt disabled the trapper hit if you were trapped with endurance
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So I feel like people are focusing on "winning" and "losing" too much in this argument. It's really not about that, its about being a tactic that holds the game hostage. To the people saying just do gens, yeah okay the three survivors just sit and hold m1 for then next couple minutes and the one on the hook just gets to look at bubba and wait for death, or if they are in solo queue will take their pulls and die because it doesnt affect them since they aren't going to get any additional bp or emblems for waiting the full 2 minutes (maybe like a couple hundred for the skill checks). So three survivors "win" but zero had fun.
Like I understand that if a killer is behind that they will use camping to try and get back in the game hoping that the survivors will feel more compassion for their teammate than a desire to solo "win", but that isn't really what this is or what is being talked about. The issue is the Bubba is known for this being their strategy going into the match. They are deriving their pleasure from taking the game away from the other people playing over playing it themselves. It's a zero win situation for 80% of the people in the game, mindlessly press M1 or just all die because with people say "just finish the gens" means they know there isn't a way around the situation.
IMO this is the same issue as with infinite 3 murder myers where it isn't an issue of I didn't get my escape or I didn't get my kill, this is an issue of the game was boring and there wasn't anything that could be done. It feels the same as if the killer was afk for the entire match or all 4 survivors were. Its a "strat" that focuses on the other players desire to play a game and doing your best to take that option away. The tall kid holding the ball above his head saying if you want it you have to jump and your options are entertain them or leave and go get a different ball.
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Bubba facecamp is a classic and kind of rite of passage for the community at this point.
You can't call yourself a vet unless you've been on both ends of it.
Real talk tho deadlock Deadman switch scourge hook and noed have made the bubba facecamp to good pls nerf
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Is it really that complicated for you lol "while within x duration, gain tantrum" that is about it. You can still use your chainsaw to deny hooks, but now you can't blatantly camp on top of them. It also isn't a niche thing, it is an incredibly powerful tool to be able to punish mistakes and hooks like that, it is almost his strongest pro.
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Someone actually said killers shouldn't be able to use there power within 12 meters of a hook. Is this for real?? So endgame the survivors just get a free escape, GTFOH with that crap.
You implement that and watch how the cocky swf teams abuse that to death.
Does anyone even want killer players in this game anymore??? Between boons, 4 man dead hard squads, and the horrible safe pallet heaven maps soon there will be no killers left.
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Sure Killers can no longer use a special attack within "X" meters of a hook.
But you can only bring 1 person to unhook within that "X" meters.
I receive you receive meme.
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Maybe I am just lucky, but I never really encounter a camping Bubba. The ones I do encounter never really play that way...unless someone "Clicky-Clicky's" a bit too much. Then they are taken to the basement and never seen again.
On a side note, the one who I see camp (and tunnel) EVERY GAME I have gone against them for the past 4 months is Huntress. There have been so many in a row that it has gotten to the point that I am sick of seeing her, and she is one of my favs, lol.
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Because most survivors want free unhooks.
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I mean if you see agitation iron grasp Bubba you know this one is a basement Bubba. Basement Bubbas basekit is quite usually Agitation, Iron Grasp, NOED and Insidious.
I find them cute I can watch into Bubbas beautiful eyes while i buy time for my teammates to do gens.
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To be honest there's really nothing you can do to change Bubba without making him as a worse Billy.
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This thread is basically: people with common sense who see how big of an actual issue face camping Bubba + a dedicated end game/deadlock build is vs. the people who face camp with Bubba and just want you to take the L and are openly bragging about how they get guaranteed kills from their method.
In other words this is an echo chamber for both sides and I don't think we're ever going to get anywhere.
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I think the easiest way to resolve this is punishing killer camping. Face camping a hooked survivor just ends their fun with the game because forces them to do NOTHING in the entire game. People here are saying the solution is the other 3 survs make gens; well, you're isolating a one single player that only wanted to have fun and play the game fairly (probably, we all know there're too much Clicky Clicky people and other special kinds). Obviously, I'm talking from my experience.
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Actually I think this is a brilliant ideea,they should remove killer instadown ability when you're withing a close radius to the hook.
No more easy camping. I think camping should be adressed in general but this is a good ideea.
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BHVR AFTER READING THIS : LET’S REMOVE HOOKS :3
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*Nerfs Pig*
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