What's the issue with healing?
Tl;Dr (The community seems to hate healing, but when the no heal meta existed and people did gens, we hated that too. So what is the real issue)
This community confuses me sometimes (all the time) when it comes to the things that are complained about.
Thinking back to the pre-Self care nerf days where it was I think the most used survivor perk, the syringe was a legit full insta heal from the downed state, killers were upset with survivors healing speeds. So what happened, within I want to say 2-3 patches, Healing speeds across the board got nerfed, self care got its own nerf on top of that, the syringe got nerfed, sloppy butcher got buffed, AND thanataphobia got buffed (or maybe the Thana buff came later). I want to say Plague came out around this time as well making healing even less viable.
The response to that: Survivors started playing injured, dead hard became meta, and the birth of the "no heal gen rush" era began. Now the killer complaint was that survivors WEREN'T healing (I wonder why) and they were just doing gens.
Enter Boon: CoH and survivors have another decent healing perk for the first time in like 3 years and now it's a problem that survivors are healing again. Sure the speed of the heals was a little crazy when it first came out but that's been dealt with TWICE. What's the issue now?
"But the heals are infinite" So what? Why shouldn't they be?
"They set up boons in a dead zone and I don't want to chase them over there" Okay....and they have to use time to run to that dead zone after you hit them. Also, if they're on death hook, just commit to the chase and kill them. If the other survivors finish the gen in that time which is unlikely if the gens are at 0, you still have time to get 1 or 2 more before they can get the gate. You leave with 2-3 kills and everyone says gg (I know everyone doesn't say gg)
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I've been saying this for the longest time! Glad to see i'm not the only one thinking this
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On COH. Killers time is 4x as valuable as a survivor so wasting time chasing and hitting a survivor only for them to run to their boon in an awkward location doesn’t cost them much but costs the killer a lot. Boons are designed so that their effect is only useful when the killer is close by (shadowstep, exponential and dark theory). COH ignores this and is why most hate it since there is little risk to placing one down since no matter where it is it will always get value.
As for healing it’s pretty much dependent on the killer they are facing. Against are nurse or Oni it’s basically required but against a legion you’re better off staying injured
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The other thing is if two or three people bring CoH a map can very quickly become one massive boon and so a survivor running to heal might not have to go far. The biggest problem I see with this is that it means the killer has to commit and if the survivor escapes then the killer can lose 3 gen have 0 downs and the only person they hit is healed. This encourages camping and tunneling in the hopes to get at least one kill but a good swf team up 3 gens knowing the killer is camping or proxy camping will get the two gens done and get ready to pull the person off and get the doors open. Honestly no matter what survivors do killers will be upset (got called toxic because I ran loops and was able to evade them for 5 gens and get out even though they had NOED and should have at least gotten me...) and the same will be true for killers, survivors will never be happy because both sides feel they should always win.
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The no-heal meta saw Survivors focus gens which wasn't fun but at least hit and run Killers were viable.
The CoH meta has seen Survivors be able to focus gens AND heal, which is even less fun.
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To be fair the self healing on CoH is a lot slower now so it does feel less oppressive than the original version. Now at least when they spend time self healing and replacing the totem if it gets snuffed it actually is taking more time away from them doing the gens. In fact I’ve seen a few games where the survivors actually lost because they got so focussed on setting up and using a CoH boon that it slowed them doing gens enough for the killer to win.
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The difference is with Boon the Survivors healing speeds are buffed stupidly which takes away the split pressure play style or well "hit and run" which was commonly used to counter gen rushing back during the old anti heal meta
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Agree with this. Depends on the killer you’re facing. Also depends on the situation in the game. If you’re injured and not near a gen and see a teammate close by or you have a med kit, it’s probably better to spend that little bit of time to heal. But if you’re next to a gen and killer is nowhere nearby, do the gen before healing.
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But like I said, if the person is on death hook, just invest that time anyway and get the kill. Let the other survivors finish the gen. Let the match end. You will still have time to get at least one more (and more if you have NOED). The only reason to not commit to that chase is if your mindset is "I need to kill everyone". And the reality is unless you're going for an achievement or challenge... you simply don't. Let the match end with 2 or 3 kills
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The issue with healing right now is it's both fast and doesn't require resources. It becomes much harder to punish survivors when damage can be quickly reversed with no real downside to it.
At least with the no heal meta it was possible to punish survivors for not healing and killers had the perk thana to help slowdown gens if survivors weren't healing.
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what is the real issue?
-CoH counter any hit and run playstile making specific killers completly not viable and stressful to play
-CoH also have unlimited use and you can put the boon back over and over and over again. (the reward for kicking boons is sooo worthless most of the times, because the killer doesnt gain nothing for doing that ,other than wasting time and a earning a bit of BPs)
-If you pick certain spot for the boon you pretty much can make one huge portion of the map be affected by just one boon( which is dumb )
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Sloppy Butcher got buffed?
Thanatophobia got buffed? (actually it got the heal slowdown removed for "more" Gen slowdown... which made sense)
I wasn't playing before the Self Care nerf... so IDK what it was like
But I did play when Syringe was wicked strong
Yes the heal speed was nerfed cause they were to strong at that time (again I don't know... I didn't experience it)
And COH made healing speeds strong again... but this time the Survivors knew the ebbs and flows of the game (when to Gens done, how much time they needed to finish the Gen, The Survivors found out that 99% healing was something to use)
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The problem is that the hit economy sucks right now. Hits don't mean anything, only downs. So M1 killers are unviable and instadown killers are slightly less unviable. I guess it doesn't matter either way, whether survivors are healed all the time with CoH, or if they stay injured with Dead Hard like before CoH, because they still take too long to go down to stop the gens. Yes, even a short chase can result in a gen getting done from 0, especially if the survivors are aware they're in a 3-gen. You're not getting 2-3 kills off those scenarios, you're getting 0-1. You can't just commit to a down at that late point and expect to get more kills, unless you have like NOED/Way Out, but even then that doesn't matter if you still have a lot of hook states to go through.
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Survivors also don't need to finish all the Generators and escape.
Why should I kill the 1 Survivor and let the rest go when I can get the 4k?
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I think the point of this is saying that you have one gen left only one survivor on death hook and three healthy survivors. If you want to risk the 1k for a 4k go for it. If you want to slug go for it but don't cry when it doesn't work out cause someone had DH or unbreakable or even the boon that lets all get up. Your fault not theirs.
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I wasn't around back in this supposed no heal meta, but it doesn't sound so bad to me? At least if you catch a survivor in a dead zone or a bad position you can down them.
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The post had nothing to do with Perks.
It was about Killers and how they should accept the 2k or 3k because "they don't need it", unlike Survivors and how they should finish all Generators
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Cool blow through what I said and don't listen I really don't care.
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Its always the same with healing perks. The moment theyre viable killers gonna cry a river and the perk gets nerfed to be quite useless. Now, it will be even worse with hemorrhage buff. Just play sloppy and nurses and let them never heal again.
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And watch gens fly? No thanks.
We need a secondary objective for Survivor. Desperately.
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Because some people just like to complain.
Doing gens? We can't have that.
Healing? We can't have that either.
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If your going to give survivors a second objective then you also have to deal with camping and tunneling
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Correct.
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"Let the other survivors finish the gen. Let the match end."
Not a fan of sandbagging myself/throwing the game, sorry.
Also not a fan of explaining to the remaining players why I "stopped trying" or "threw" when they ask.
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It's not throwing. It's letting the game play out instead of stalling and dragging a game out longer than necessary
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Seems legit.
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Not really
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This guy gets is. CoH is the GREATER of two evils tbh... It's just a badly designed perk..
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The people complaining about healing literally do not play the game optimally. So I have no idea why they are crying, just enjoy your low mmr games where people heal against Legion or whatever. You have a good thing going.
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I was being sarcastic.
It was honestly pretty jarring to suggest throwing the game.
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Trust me, they complained about it alot. Of course this was also back when 80 charges was the minimum for a toolbox. Hell the Commodious could get up to 225 charges.
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"Tl;Dr (The community seems to hate healing, but when the no heal meta existed and people did gens, we hated that too. So what is the real issue)"
Because they should need to heal, it should just take enough time to allow pressure for the killer on the map.
The only reason the heal meta is hated now is because it is too efficient and doesn't waste enough time. For example, if the heal meta run now was using self care everyone would be fine with it. That's because it's actually slow, allows the killer to pressure the map and wastes multiple perk slots.
So the community does not hate the healing, they hate how overly efficient and fast it is. CoH isn't taking multiple perk slots, has infinite uses, and is too fast.
How do we fix this? Bring CoH down to a balanced level like Self Care and make staying injured actually dangerous (it hasn't been for years).
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It's a usual Tuesday
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Except Self Care isn't balanced, it's trash and spending 40 seconds healing yourself is annoying and takes WAY too much time
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It should take that long. When you account for how much time the killer spends downing x3 since the others are on gens, it needs to be that long. Not taking another survivors time to heal you should come with a cost.
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There were other factors besides old toolboxes that lead to old gen rush meta. The gen rush meta was also before Realm Beyond updates so the early Realms like MacMillian and Autohaven had some really strong maps that could waste killers time in chase. (Old Blood Lodge was awful and Old Ironworks was basically an infinite).
You also have to look at perks. Killers had Pop, Ruin, Surge, and Corrupt for gen defense. Corrupt was alright, but didn't stop survivors from finding other gens to do first and then do the blocked gens. Pop and Ruin before required you to be able to get survivors off gens before they were finished (harder with old toolboxes) and Surge was okay on smaller maps while being basically useless on larger ones.
Since then killers have gotten Pain Resonance to damage gens from distance, DMS buff and Dead Lock to stall out gens from getting finished, and map reworks overall lowering the strength of maps for survivors.
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lets not forget that DS back then was 60 second of invulnerability. Survivors didn't need to heal immediately and could just sit on gens the moment they got off the hook.
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It's not about healing as much as the speed of healing. When players can heal during chase faster than you can get them down, that's a problem. Healing on the other side of the pallet twice for a full heal is too fast.
Fast healing destroys hit and run play styles, which several killers excel at. Therefore, you end up with more camping instead.
I prefer the survivors to ja e healing, mostly through med kits and each other. It means time off of gens. Since CoH, it is broken.
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Its only 32 seconds(100% time efficent as normal healing is 16 of 2 people's time or 32 total) and Self-care was considered meta is several regions before Circle of Healing was released.
Remember there's a reason why Self-care was hard nerfed 3 times over and Circle of Healing is going to be even at bonus 50% healing speed a pre nerfed Self-care and thus in the historical "Overpowered" territory still.
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I'm aware. Toolboxes were definitely the biggest issue though.
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self-care feels terrible to use. I genuinely hate having teammate that use it. Self-caring twice is 64 seconds, that is nearly an entire generator worth of progression. Self-care is terrible perk when it comes to winning survivor games and should not be balanced around.
It would be much better if they just weaken health state sprint bursts to shorten wasted time and giant map balance from shift+W. It would be better that they actually buff killer chases either by improving their power or weaken safe pallets. I know that people harp of Gideon's Meat Packing Plant with 40 safe pallets, but most of other maps have just as strong safe pallets that can be optimized with proper window looping.
Having strong killers powers would help with making Gideon's 40 safe pallets into unsafe pallets.
One thing I will say is that they should consider applying self-care debuff on med-kits and each med-kit heals at lower speeds.
E.G Grey = 26 sec, yellow = 24 second, Purple at 24, green at 20. I could see that as change to weaken healing. med-kits are pretty powerful.
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I still try to hit and run as ghostie and straight up someone got upset because I didn't mark them every single time.
We've come full circle where I tried to avoid tunneling above all but they still weren't happy.
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