Demogorgon Players, I Have 1 Question For You: Why Is STBFL "His Best Perk"?
I've seen quite a lot of people calling Save The Best For Last "Demogorgon's Best Perk", and I don't get it.
I have a few theories about why it's such a popular choice on him:
- Stacks are easy to maintain thanks to Shred
- It allows for a 1-2 combo (M1 --> Shred)
- People have seen popular streamers use it on him
- The Perk feels good to use
I get why Save The Best For Last could be used on Demogorgon, but I still don't understand why it's used so often, nor why it's "His Best Perk", when it has a few, pretty big flaws:
- You're forced to M1 and neglect your Shred, a really strong chase tool, to get Stacks
- It can back-fire considerably, if the Survivors realize you have it equipped
- It takes a while to actually start working
And now, onto Save The Best For Last's biggest problem:
- Black Heart, a Common rarity Add-on, does it's job better, without needing to gather Stacks, and applies it to your Shred instead of M1s
So, if any fellow Demogorgon player could enlighten me and show why it's such a good Perk on him, please do
Comments
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I personally dropped it when he got his addon pass, I can use the perk slot for something else and use black heart instead, I’m constantly using shred anyway, thought the recovery isn’t as fast, it’s good enough to replace it.
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I didn't use it even before his Add-on pass, Enduring was more useful imo
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Why's it used so often? Haha puppy go woof.
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Fair enough
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You already said it. Shred is a very useful power and allows Demo to get full effect out of STBFL with near zero downsides when every other Killer has to deal with losing stacks and can end up with a wasted perk slot.
Shred when useful, M1 when needed, and both only get stronger as the game goes on.
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STBFL is amazing on killers that can get relatively easy hits with their power, but honestly I kind of stopped using it after Demo’s addon pass made it kind of moot
it’s still fun, but I’m more likely to take SF/Enduring over STBFL nowadays
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But Shred is almost always useful.
There's only 2 situations I can think of where going for an M1 would be more useful than going for a Shred, those being: when the distance to a Window or a Pallet is to short to charge a Shred.
Other than those 2 instances, going for a Shred is always better than an M1, especially with Black Heart
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- "Black Heart, a Common rarity Add-on, does it's job better, without needing to gather Stacks, and applies it to your Shred instead of M1s"
This is why you run Black Heart AND STBFL. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Seems like a waste of a Perk Slot
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I think it’s more like StBFL works the best on Demo. I wouldn’t say it’s its best perk, per se.
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Part of the reason why you take STBFL is that it lets you win nearly every single hook interaction as M1 into shred counters BT and M1 at max stacks is faster then the unhook so they can't even hook trade vs demo.
This even applies while carring a survivor as you effectively can't be safely body blocked.
Plus who doesn't like a hyper doggo barking.
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I almost always use STBFL when I play him. You pretty much already said it - it’s easy to maintain stacks by shredding the obsession and/or quickly get an m1 into a shred.
You shouldn’t really neglect your shred just to get stacks, you just get your stacks over time. If you need the shred to hit someone then you use the shred.
I don’t really find that survivors realizing you have it matters all that much as it’s so commonly used on him that they tend to expect it by default as if it were a meta perk. Personally the moment I see demo I just assume he has STBFL unless I clearly see that he doesn’t.
Is it his absolute “best perk”? I’m not sure, but it is definitely good and he is one of the best killers at using it.
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I didn't think of that, fair point.
Denying unhooks is pretty powerful, and the puppy barks are a nice plus
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That's the good thing about playing Killer. If you want to use a different perk/build then do so thanks to how each Killer plays in a unique way on top of how each player can play each Killer in their own personal way.
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Because its tons of fun for me
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I think it mostly comes down to playstyle, just like @Chewy102 said.
I play a defensive Portal oriented build, so I don't focus on aggressive chase Perks, but when I do, I usually run Enduring to help me create Dead-Zones faster.
Maybe that's why I don't see STBFL's strength, because it doesn't fit my playstyle
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Most likely.
I run Black Heart and Barbs Glasses, STBFL and Infectious Fright. So very chase-orientated and while Demo does not have an Instadown, being next to a Demo with 8 Stacks STBFL and screaming due to Infectious Fright is not the best position a Survivor can be in.
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"Best" is always subjective, I did use it for a time but I ended up swapping it out. I think when blight go released I started playing demo more differently
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What do you mean by "differently"?
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Being next to a Demogorgon is never a good position
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It depends on the sort of Demo you play.
If you go for a 'battle Demo' style, mostly just bum-rushing people and ignoring portals for the most part, it's really strong.
I like more of a roaming Demo, using portals to ping-pong around the map, and I find I get better value out of information and regression.
That said, it's one of those perks that feels somewhat made for him.
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One of his best perks and he makes better use of it than basically any other killer. You stack it with his other cd reducing addon for shred. You just M1 if you can and shred when you need to and then either way you are recovering very fast. This shortens your chases a ton and makes hooks trades/bt rescues useless. Basically zero downsides when running it on Demo since he can utilize it so we’ll. I personally think you’re missing out on a lot of extra power not running it. For him I’d value that over any other chase perk you’re considering.
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Well if turned far more hit&run / gen protection. Demo is decent at chases but his portals I feel always let him down so I tried to create a build to help with that. The old undying mixed with ruin, tinkerer gave me the idea and I really enjoy the gameplay I get.
New build is ruin, call of brine, tinkerer and then probably some form of aura (could do STBFL but I found I could get abit annoyed if the obsession was really good, sbmm hurt it for me)
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So usually if you hit the obsession with your attack you lose a stack but with shred you don’t lose a stack so you can keep 8 stacks the whole time and just use shred on the obsession.
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All of the benefits of it without the downsides (Not being able to hit the obsession without losing stacks)
One of the big upsides of the perk is making controlling hooks/dealing with bodyblocking survivors much easier. M1s are also just slightly easier to control and much faster to do, with shred you still have to do that small charge which could be the difference between getting a hit or getting pallet stunned
It's not required to play him, but it's certainly one of his best perks because he can use it and ignore its downside unlike killers like let's say Clown - you can't injure the obsession any other way apart from grabs which aren't that common
I do agree that Shred on its own can carry demo, especially with some of his newer addons but STBFL will never be a bad choice on killers that use their M1 a lot/have an M2 that doesn't insta-down except maybe Legion/Plague.
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I feel like it's wildly overrated. For one, there are just better perks to run. If you only care about winning a game, take NOED, No Way Out, Bamboozle, or any other good perk instead of STBFL.
It's a perk that gets less useful as survivors get better. You're going to have to make liberal use of Shred against the best players. Players will see Demo and start chucking pallets. Most of your hits will be Shreds anyway. And you're more than likely going to hit the obsession at some point.
Getting and maintaining 8 stacks is never guaranteed. It's more likely you'll have 4 or 5 for most of the game. So what are you not running because you took STBFL and have 5 stacks?
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Demogorgon has no instadown power.
So when you get Survivor swarmed, you NEED a way to do as much damage as possible. The best option is that 40% speed increase between M1s.
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Cause its funny to have 8 stacks and constantly hit a person on hook to let them know demopuppys having a good time and doesnt know why the ball isnt being thrown.
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(shrug)
I much prefer MYC.
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I've personally never understood the hype about it.
Shred is a power designed to help you get faster hits in a chase, so why would you bring a perk that is only effective if you neglect Shred for 3 out of every 4 attacks? Yes, you can use Shred to not M1 the obsession to keep the stacks up, but likewise you can just use Shred to down people anyway.
It's just a terribly designed perk in general, because anyone who has a good way to maintain their stacks is better off using that alternate way of attacking because in general it's a chase power. The only killers it's really significant on are those with built in exposed so they lose half as many stacks, or something like Pig where you can use your power to get hits, but it's generally less efficient.
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It's just there for unhooks and bodyblocks. Against good survivors you are gonna need to be shredding most of the time for hits since M1s will never be coming easy.
The only time I am ever getting a ton of hits in a row with it is during an unhook, and IMO you should only really be camping hooks with Demo if things are really desperate.
My go-to has been enduring since pallet validation became a thing. Getting stunned out of a shred is so painful and can basically end the chase depending on where it happens. And Demo needs to throw himself through pallets often enough I think it justifies the slot, certainly more than STBFL
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It's a questionable idea, using STBFL, just like it is on Nemesis. If you're using STBFL, you're not using Demogorgon's shred, but if you're not using his shred, you're missing out on a huge part of his power.
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This is a good question! But I think it answers itself with the reasons given. I don't think it's its' BEST perk, but it is absolutely up there for Dmi personally.
Here's the 8 things you stated, but may have been mislead about:
1.) Having a built in retention for the Obsession makes STBFL better on ANY killer with a special attack - even on Pig, which is never as pretty. M1 dependent killers such as Hag, Wraith, or Meyers himself gain the worst performance - so this means that the Demogorgon is one of the killers with a VERY convenient workaround for this powerful perk's biggest drawback. While other killers like Cannibal or Piggy have long wind-ups that can make their powers unreliable to use in a pinch - and other killers such as Huntress or Nemesis rely on skillshots (which can miss) that encourage them to play with range rather than their power, Demi finds a very happy in-between where it's highly encouraged to get up in survivor's faces and smack them... but charging up for an M2 isn't out of the picture in most cases.
2.) The Combination M1/2 wombo is incredibly oppressive - especially because it allows you to lead with your weakest range - highest confidence attack. While you can lead with your Shred, survivors can play around it and bait it out in many cases - which is highly punitive. A healthy survivor that sees a shred has a lot of confidence to attempt such things - because there is no instant risk to them; they can take the hit if you land it, but they gain incredible value if they force you to miss - win/win. Once the perk is realized, people will do everything they can to exploit an M2 in order to maximize on time and distance where possible. That being said - on an INJURED survivor, the M2 game changes up a bit, because they act a lot more predictably. An injured survivor cannot tank hits - so they run to pallets and vaults to evade the combination, which funnels them into a very strict pathing situation. The M1/2 combo allows for the Demogorgon to put a Healthy survivor into the Dying state in about 6 seconds. Even if survivors use a Dead Hard to evade the combo - it took anywhere between 3-10 seconds, which means that this perk on Demogorgon's kit can cut out anywhere from 20-35 seconds of chase - which is greater overall value than Pain Resonnance/Pop combo, which grants about 26 seconds per hook. The ability of this perk to allow the Demogorgon to punish out-of-position survivors and chew through their resources cannot be understated.
3.) Popular streamers have used it because, well, it works! It's especially good for what streamers are looking for: Flashy plays. Demi has map pressure, but his shred is incredibly good at shutting down 'gentle' loops - like old Haddonfield fences. Imagine STBFL on a Long jungle gym where a survivor greeds the pallet. They get hit, they don't throw - they think they're going to run the length of the wall and go for another 20-30 second loop. But by the time they start, the streamer rounds the corner - charging their shred... a brutal punctuation to the exchange. Very flashy, yes. But this perk - on its own - turns the Demogorgon into a complete and total Gym killer against healthy survivors in addition to unhealthy ones. It's flashy and allows those tight M1s in loops to turn into certain death situations for survivors - even if they have a pallet in play.
4.) The perk feels good in part because of theatrics and pallets, IMO. Pallets are the bane of killer's enjoyment. STBFL doesn't speed up how fast you eat them up, but it allows you to get to chewing faster, even on a down. That and - in addition - Demi's on-hit animation has him literally screaming. This perk turns his overly dramatic crying-to-the-heavens scream into a quick one. It feels nice and keeps the pace going, and can even help you cut down pallets faster. Overall, if you use this perk a lot in the game my stringing together M1s and M2s - you can save upwards of 10 seconds in animation time alone each and every match. Getting an extra 10 seconds for free is always a nice feeling. When those 10 seconds are allowing you to shred would-be-saviors within 1 second of downing someone, it feels even better.
5.) The perk has the basic compliment with the Demogorgon's greatest weakness - cocky survivors. When healthy survivors are faced, they tend to be excited to juke a demi out of an M2. And when they're at a range where they cannot juke it - they are typically able to get smacked by a lunge as well. Cocky survivors will attempt to convince you to shred at a window only to bail at the last possible second to prolong the chase - allowing the Demi to continue pressure by opening up M1 as a superior alternative to initiate chase, it makes him a lot more attractive. Example: an healthy survivor is playing super cocky in a loop you both know they are about to get hit at - they clearly have Dead Hard, what do you do? You don't wind up a shred, because even if you close the distance, they can nullify that and put you way out of position - and it will take you a finnicky second to get back into chase again. You can't just 'normal' M1 them because they can gain distance. But with this perk, the M1 is the superior option. Once they are knocked into the injured state - they are faced with a predicament, do they Dead Hard to escape your speedy reprisal and eat your M2 at the end of it - or do they 'save' their Dead Hard and run the risk of you landing an M1 again? By letting the Demogorgon keep up the pressure in addition to his base power, it allows the killer to remain a significant threat to shut down cocky survivor plays where - previously - you might have to risk an M2.
6.) While the perk takes awhile to start working, so does Devour in that sense. You're not going to see the value of Hex Ruin until mid to late game either. Punctuating chases upwards of 30 seconds sooner and chewing through health states to the point where protection hits are suicidal is incredibly powerful. It takes time to ramp up because in game time, you can easily save over 90 seconds of potential chase time. While this perk has this value, most killers can only utilize it partially - or have bad synergies with it. Neither Michael, Cannibal, Nemesis, nor Huntress can boast of these numbers. In conjunction with your shred - this perk alone can save you more time and effort than Pop/PainResonance/Thanataphobia/CorruptIntervention combined in one build. Pop steals 20 seconds away from survivors - but killer time is 1/4 as valuable, meaning it effectively saves you, the killer, 5 seconds per use. Even in very well run games - these perks in concert will be lucky to save you, the killer, 70 seconds. On Demogorgon, STBFL alone can save you 90 without breaking a sweat, especially against meta players. That is, naturally, if it is used optimally.
7.) Black Heart does a fantastic job of keeping Demo in the fight - but it augments his M2. The major drawback with M2 is that survivors do what they can to counter it at later levels of play. In many cases, it is a luxury that is ill afforded. If you wind up to shred on EVERY attack - the precious fractions of a second you've saved on the recovery animation you've already spent winding up your shred to begin with and... well... let's get to the bottom of it. The two are not mutually exclusive. Why not just take both? Besides, perks are not addons. I don't think anyone would say that Spirit's Mother/Daughter ring is superior to Corrupt Intervention, because one's an addon and the other is a perk. Just bring both.
8.) You say that it can backfire when survivors understand that the perk is in play, do you mean that they scatter on pickups? Don't take protection hits? The Obsession gets in your face? Are you implying that survivors will often times assume M1s and become emboldened in longer loops? I legitimately don't understand this one - but I think it's because we're coming at things from two different angles. On one hand, if your goal is to make STBFL work for you, and your primary objective is stacks - absolutely this perk can stab you in the back like my ex. But if you play the game normally and reserve M2s for loops and Obsessions, the perk can grow organically over the match and make some impressive returns. If you prioritize this perk - it's no good for you. But if you use the threat of its existence to put survivors in bad places, they will crumble before you - ESPECIALLY when they are least expecting it. Treat the perk less like Devour Hope and more like Spirit Fury. Don't think about it, just let it happen naturally - because when survivors find out it's in play, it's already too late.
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makes camping basement much more devastating
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