http://dbd.game/killswitch
Freddy Krueger - A discussion-thread around The Nightmare (4.7.2)
I havent found a discussion-thread around a Killer, so I think its not the worst idea to have a Thread for discussions around one specific killer. As a Freddy-Main, Ive decided to open this discussion, especially for discussions about his addons....
In my opinion, Freddys Basekit is really good (for an M1-Killer). He has a little Anti-Loop-Technique and a decent Map Pressure thanks to his - in my opinion - main ability, the Dream Projection.
With the latest nerfs, his speed reduces to 4,0m/s when he places a Dream Snare and he has only 5 of them in his arsenal.
With the latest perk-changes (especially Dead Mans Switch and maybe the new Hemorrhage-Statuseffect), he became a little buff. U have the ability, to block gens with DMS all over the map, if u hooked someone. In Combination with Tinkerer (or in my gameplay BBQ), u know exactly which gen u should port on. Most of the time u can slow down the game a bit, what u actually really need in the current meta, because the gens are flying most of the times.
His Base-Kit is fine how it is in my opinion, but his Addons are his massive problems!!!
Lets discuss about them:
In my opinion, you only have 4 useful addons, which are Red Paint Brush (everyone starts in Dreamworld, Failed Skill-Checks doesnt make you awake), Nancys Masterpiece / Sketch (to speed up the reloadtime to use Dream Projection more often) and - maybe - Pill Bottle, for some sneaky gameplays, if survivors arent careful.
With the Combo Red Paint Brush - Nancys Masterpiece u can have at least a quicker Dream Projection Option.
Apart from that, all other addons are really "not that good", to call it friendly.
You have 3 Addons for changing Snares into Pallets. Why 3? The Extra-Effects on seeing an Aura doesnt matter, because they interact in 99% with Pallets in a chase and if they fall for a Fake Pallet, u have a hit.
Black Tool Box: The Exit is blocked for 16 secs (wow...), WHEN the survivor is asleep. So basically this IRIDECENT addon gives you exactly 1 hook, when major circumstances are in play... and they happen in, lets guess, 5% of your games? Ive never seen a Freddy who actually plays this.
Blocks: All 4 Blocks are for Status-Effects only. At the moment no one really use this, because no one cares if you have to deal with 30secs of Blindness or whatever. MAYBE the Z-Block (purple) comes sometimes into play, at least to try out the new Hemmorhage. But for 90secs? As a purple addon? I cant see this worthy, even with the Hemorrhage-Change. Maybe a remove of this time window makes it more reliable.
Class Photo: New Mechanic to change the killer a bit, which is good (different ways to play a killer), but with that, u dont have one of your powers, faking a dream projection, anymore + you cant cancel it to hit a survivor, when a survivor shows up while u are in the dream projection animation. Its kinda frustrating, that u must (!) teleport.
Swing Chains/Jump Rope/Outdoor Rope: Lets say they are beginner-friendly, but Freddy is a character you have to buy. Which means, most of the players knows a little bit about the game and really dont need any of them.
Blue Dress/Green Dress increases the penalty of failed Skill Checks.... well, at least u can use them.
About the other Addons, we should not talk...
So in the end, you dont have a addon that increases the dream projection speed (for example even a Pig has addons to speed up the ambush-charge-time or your crouch or your animation into the crouch - as brown addons!), you dont have an addon which speeds up Freddys Dream Snare-Placements back to 4,6m/s or at least 4,3 or anything like that.
It feels like most of the addons arent really combined with Freddy itself, they are more or less "random addons", which u could add to everyone.
My wishlist for the future:
Change some addons more into Freddys Gameplay, like I said, speed up the snare placement (u could combine it with another decrease of possible snares with this addon to 4), speed up the dream projection channel and rework the Black Box Iridecent-Addon. Its absolutely useless. The Alarm Clock extra 30secs are a huge problem too.
Demogorgen and Sadako, which are kinda similar to Freddy, do have such Addons (Bloody Fingernails, Well stone, Rat Tail, Rat Liver, Mews Guts etc.), which powers up abilitys or change them a bit. Why does Freddy have only 2 of them (Nancys Masterpiece and Nancys Sketch) to give u your Dream Projection a bit faster... IF Survivors are asleep.
Tell me your opinion.
Comments
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The main problem with Freddy is that he is just boring. His dream pallets are pretty fun but outclassed massively by snares. I dont think it would break him to have both personally.
and agree that his addons are now total #########. Better than forever freddy, sure, but theyve gone from boring and broken (somehow managing to be both) to completely useless. These need a serious overhaul.
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I dont know why he has a high kill rate instead of other M1-Killers. His main power is - like Pig - slowing the game down a bit (with Teleport and Pop goes the Weasel or Dead Man Switch for example). His Chase-Power however isnt any better and the Dreamworld is doing nothing. Yes, you can argue that Snares can counterplay a Loop to let survivors not run 3 rounds around before dropping the pallet. Instead they have to use the pallet in round 2. Lets look at The Doctor for example. With his shock, Survivors cant interact with Pallets at all ( if timing is correct). With Snares however, the survivor needs to be asleep at first and then they can interact with pallets (or use Deadhard) even within the animation.
Why is there no addon that gives Survivors, to be greedy, an exposed status effect when they interact with a snare. Too OP? Because everyone is using Deadhard?
After all, Snares are FAR BETTER than Pallets for itself, but Pallets at least are a more enjoyable experience if they work. Well, against a SWF of course, they are just useless.
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IMO Freddy needs a complete rework, again.
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For sure. But, to be honest, I think facing a Freddy is almost as rare as facing Twins. When I get 1 game vs. a Freddy in a week, I could do a party.
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What should the devs change in my opinion as a Freddy-Main:
1. Let him see the alarmclock-auras (like Pig with her boxes)
2. Give him addons who
A) increases the speed while placing a snare from 4,0m/s into 4,6m/s back how it was... or just give him normal speed back
B) Give him an addon, which increases the Teleport-Animation-Speed (like Gears/Pig or Sunglasses/Demo)
C) Remive the Must-Teleport-Downside from Class Foto
D) thats enough already.
With this, he would be Top-B-Tier or Bottom-A-Tier and thats fine.
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They should give him an addon that gives you both snares and pallets.
Also an addon like doctors fake pallets but instead create a dream pallet every 30 seconds
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The first thing isnt possible, cause right mouse click can only do one thing. But it wouldnt be OP as well and u have 3 free addons for Snare-Speedup for example.
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They just need to bring OG Freddy back.
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Freddy should have both powers from his addons at once so he has to manage resources better instead of spamming his power brainlessly. His addons should have unique effects instead of just applying boring status effects. Nurse is a great example - Most of her addons are meme addons that change the power in some way - Freddy should be the same.
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As someone who mains freddy exclusively, I highly disagree that snares are better than pallets. For one, survivors are way more likely to wakeup if they know snares are in play and therefore render you powerless in loops for most of the game. Not to mention that a good portion of the time, even if you double snare a loop, survivors can still make it to pallets/windows. With dream pallets I find that most survivors cannot keep track of which ones are real (especially when paired with Red Paint Brush) and as a result, I get way more free hits because of fake pallets.
I think the biggest issue with Freddy is that he is powerless for most of the match because of the alarm clock buff that survivors got. That mixed with garbage tier addons and you have the perfect receipt for a mediocre killer.
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I will always prefer old Freddy's original and unique power, save for a few adjustments he could have had. His current power is boring and uninspired imo, but it has potential and I agree that his addons are what bring him down the most since they don't tend to affect his main chase power. If his movement was faster when using his power and if he got an addon pass that gave him boosts to his actual chase powers, then I think he'd be in a pretty good spot. As someone stated previously, Nightmare being able to utilize both his snare and pallet powers in a match would give him good versatility as well. His power needs to be strong in order for his weakness of awake survivors not being affected by it to make sense.
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Oh... I haven't left the memory of the Forums yet? That is most surprising.
I am sorry, my friend, but my time is past.
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Damn, do I have your permission to take up the fight to get Old Freddy back?
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I agree with the free hits, but Snares have some positive effects too. For example, I like the placement in doors on Midwich for example to trap a gen inside up to know when they are restart working on.
In some loops they are helpful to cut 1 round around off or even get the hit and the window-medium-vault is nice. I with they were like docs shocks: when u are trapped, you cant vault or drop pallets...
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If you are looking where a pallet was right click is dream pallet if you aren't then you set a snare. It's possible
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They should just revert his rework, turn him back into the 2017 version and give him some QoL changes.
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2017 was his "into the Dream-Ability", right?
Or was 2017 already the current version in good (4,6m/s Snare-Speed, 8 Snares etc.) That was fine i assume, just the time wasting addons needed a change.
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2017 was first iteration Freddy, no teleport, no snares, he had to put you into the dream, no alarm clocks, he had no colision with awake Survivors nor could he attack them, wallhacks outside his TR on asleep Survivors and being asleep made your M1 50% slower on everything.
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As said above. The 2017 version was the good one.
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You honor me, my friend. If that is your decision, feel free to.
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Yes! I swear I won't let you down my friend!
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Honestly bring back old 2017 Freddy and make some tweaks to it. It didn't need to be scrapped entirely, it was salvageable.
If that option is totally off the table then the current Freddy needs a total rework again. His kit is just a copy paste of other killers that's boring to play as and against, not to mention weak.
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I'd like his pallets and snares to be combined in his base-kit, similar to Clown's bottle switching. His add-ons need the most work, most of them are just slightly better versions of each other. I'd do the following to make them more unique:
Common Add-ons
- Wool Shirt: Survivors in the Dream World suffers from an Increase in the Regression penalty of failed Repairing and Healing Skill Checks by +8 %.
- Sheep Block: Survivors interacting with a Dream Trap suffer from the Blindness Status Effect for 45 seconds.
- Kid's Drawing: Reduces the Movement Speed penalty of triggered Dream Snares by -10 %. When a Survivor activates a Dream Snare, Freddy gains a 5 % Haste bonus for 5 seconds.
- Garden Rake: Increases Dream Pallet and Dream Snare token count by 2
Uncommon Add-ons
- Prototype Claws: Survivors within a 5 metre radius of a Dream Pallet while in the Dream World have their Aura revealed
- Outdoor Rope: Survivors fall asleep 10 % faster while repairing Generators. Survivors in the Dream World increases the audible range of Generator-Repair noises by +8 metres.
- Nancy's Sketch: Reduces the Cool-down duration of Dream Projection by -7 % for each Survivor inside the Dream World.
- Green Dress: Survivors that fail a Skill-Check while awake add 33 % progression towards falling asleep. If the Survivor is put into the Dream World from the failed Skill-Check, their Aura is revealed for 10 seconds.
- Cat Block: Dream Projection Cool-down duration reduced to 25 seconds. Remove the global audio cue of teleporting. The range of the Generator Freddy can teleport to is no longer global, but rather 32 metres.
Rare Add-ons
- Unicorn Block: Survivors fall asleep 15 % faster.
- Paint Thinner: If a Survivor interacts with a Dream Pallet, all Survivors within 24 meters of the Dream Pallet are revealed for 3 seconds.
- Nancy's Masterpiece: Dream Projection's Charge duration reduced to 2 seconds.
- Jump Rope: Auras of the Alarm Clocks are visible to Freddy. Survivors waking up by the Alarm Clock have their Auras revealed for 5 seconds if outside his Terror Radius.
- Blue Dress: When Freddy walks over a Dream Snare, Freddy gains Undetectable for 1 second. Has a cooldown for 5 seconds.
Ultra Rare Add-ons
- Pill Bottle: Reduces the Distance range at which awake Survivors see The Nightmare intermittently to 12 to 24 metres. The Nightmare is invisible to awake Survivors beyond 24 metres and when he is carrying another Survivor. Glimpse cooldown reduced to 1 second. Increases the volume of Survivors' Grunts of Pain by +25 % while in the Dream World.
- Swing Chains: After using Dream Projection to completion, Survivors within 5 meters of the Generator are highlighted with Killer Instinct for 3 seconds.
- Class Photo: Unchanged.
- "Z" Block: Putting a Survivor into the Dream World with a Basic Attack generates a token. At 8 tokens, Survivors cannot wake up.
Iridescent Add-ons
- Red Paint Brush: Causes all Survivors to start the Trial inside the Dream World. Survivors are unable to wake themselves up by failing Skill Checks. Survivors that wake up using the Alarm Clock are Incapacitated for 16 seconds. Increases the volume of Survivors' Footsteps by +50 % while in the Dream World.
- Black Box: When all Exit Gates are powered, Survivors who are not immune to falling asleep fall asleep immediately. When an Exit Gate is opened by a Survivor in the Dream World, that Exit Gate is blocked off for 15 seconds, and increases by 5 seconds for each successful Basic Attack Freddy lands if still blocked.
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I wish Freddy had a small indicator on whether he was visible to a survivor or not. Like maybe his arm is slightly translucent and when a survivor sees you it becomes fully visible. Just so we can have cool and more prominent mind games using this tactic.
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The Nightmare needs a total rework.
Right now, he is boring and drab - devoid of all creativity.
Someone needs to get in there and inject some insanity into the killer to make him one of the most creative ones in the game.
I'd rather he was bad and super fun to play as/against than to have his alpha numerics up in the stratosphere levels of strength and have him stay super boring.
As it stands, The Nightmare is not Freddy Kruger. Freddy is a killer with wild imagination and unbridled insanity. What we have in the game is just a shadow of as much.
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Is there any hope than he will receive something in the upcoming 6.0.0 Patch? Buffs for Snares (faster placement, faster movement-speed or higher speed penalty), addons for keeping them more asleep, Dreamworld is doing anything...).
And where the hell is the Dream-Pallet-Animation (coming from the sky)?
Post edited by Marik1987 on0 -
Behaviour can we please get the iconic Robert Englund Freddy skin plz?
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This ideas are really nice. For me, Id like to get an addon which buffs Snares (not 15% Speed Penalty, but more) for example. Mostly its not enough for a loop.
Reduced cooldown to fall asleep is really important, your goal should always be having them asleep as often as u can.
I dont need Speed Penalty in Progression, but the Nightfall-Idea of Dredge is more Dreamworld than Freddy has atm. He needs love.
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You need to place 2 snares in a lot of loops to catch up....at which time they'll just leave the loop or drop the pallet.
Against decent players, he's almost powerless.
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Its a shame. They reduces the speed to 4,0m/s while placing, reduces the Tokens, giving survivors extra awake-timer and on top of that almost every addon is useless.
All in one nerf-package. Ive never seen a Character getting killed so hard than him.
Freddys Nerfs are CRAZY, absolutely CRAZY.
Restore him, BHVR!!!
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No, we don't miss them.
The past should stay in the past and according to topics I've been shown a long while ago, iirc GeneralV doesn't care if OG Freddy was bad or the worst killer in the game, they still want them back in regardless.
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I'm assuming you've completely forgotten, or weren't there, when old Freddy was in the game?
Freddy was widely considered to be the worst killer in the game, you could save in front of him with no punishment (you thought BT saves at endgame was bad? Imagine it being even worse...), he had ZERO anti-loop, and was a snooze fest to play against. He was just as unfun to play against for different reasons (that being he was completely M1, so no threat whatsoever) and these forums FREQUENTLY wanted Freddy changes + placed Freddy VERY lowly. AND these forums were excited for the rework!
This video is gameplay of how bad old Freddy was. I repeat: Unfun to play against because he was easy to beat as Survivor, and unfun to play as because he had no power whatsoever, extra steps to accomplish basic Killer objectives (infinite aura reading outside of your terror radius is absolutely nothing, as we've all seen via old Legion; downing power is everything, injuries and aura tracking don't decide games)
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No. He was like any killer. Could 4k or let everyone out. I had a ton of fun playing as Freddy. Just needed to lower the sleep timer from 7 seconds to 5. Sounds like maybe you weren't very good with him.
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"He was like any killer." Absolutely not, video proves otherwise. And he certainly struggled to get 4ks, with it being straight up a nightmare against even bad Survivors who knew Freddy's weaknesses.
"Sounds like maybe you weren't very good with him."
Sounds to me like you're calling 80% of the DBD community, including streamers who put Freddy at bottom tier, "not very good with him".
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That's what I am waiting for since he was released 😏
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Sure. You act like this community doesn't cry and complain about 90 percent of the game mechanics regardless. Most of the community just tried to be the squeaky wheel rather that make adjustments and learn how to utilize a killers strengths to get better.
I thought he was fun to play and I got to rank 1 with him. So it's not like he was impossible to win with. And even if he had a really low kill rate (he didn't by the way), is it really a big deal if a killer wants to challenge themselves with a "weaker" killer?
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For sure. I personally make more 3 or 4Ks than losses. But that all thanks to my skill 🤣 and 4x Gen-Slowdown-Perks like Pop or Dead Mans.
I would wish to get more variety to Freddy, but thats his only way in high MMR.
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I don't act like it, I actually do think 50% of the playerbase is whiny.
Which strengths were these for old Freddy? Constant aura reveal outside of TR? So what? Aura reveal is nothing if you're M1, and his gigantic weaknesses, as shown in the video, outshine the positives.
And that's fine that you found him and a small minority found him fun, but 90% of the community found him a snoozefest to go against, and unfun to play as. I would rather we not waste resources on bringing back overall unhealthy for the game Killers and simply fix the ones that we have.
"So it's not like he was impossible to win with."
Except that's not what I was saying. "Absolutely not, video proves otherwise. And he certainly struggled to get 4ks, with it being straight up a nightmare against even bad Survivors who knew Freddy's weaknesses."
"is it really a big deal if a killer wants to challenge themselves with a "weaker" killer?"
Also not what I was saying, it's "not a big deal", but if you want to challenge yourself, play Myers, Clown or Pig instead of asking for resources to be wasted on bringing old Freddy back.
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It would be enough if they remove the "No-Dream-Whatsoever"-Timer (the yellow-one after using your clock) and change some addons for different plays like better snares, faster Teleport-Animation and faster fall asleep-Timer-Addon.
In the currwnt meta, Snares could give survivors exhausted status effect as deadhard-counter (via Addon) instead of useless Hemmorhage-Effect.
Especially the snares have a lot of potential and survs want more to be awake as often as they can, which should extend the game a bit more. Helpful at the gen-rush-high-mmr-games
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Aura reading and slowdown. Two pretty strong killer features. Great slugging killer. Again, take down the sleep timer from 7 to 5 and he would have been fine.
But even then, with dead hard usage how it is, it's really no different than your average killer match. Run behind the guy playing dead hard chicken for 5 seconds before you swing at him.
I had much more fun playing as old Freddy than version 2 Freddy and diet caffeine free coke zero Freddy that we have now.
Anyway, neither of us are going to change each other's opinions. Last word is yours if you want it.
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and update him a little
talk to the elm street rights holders
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Nobody is going to change the other's opinions because we're just now getting to the good part + you're ignoring my video if you think he's good at slugging.
"Aura reading and slowdown. Two pretty strong killer features."
As I've said before, downing is everything. His "slowdown" was defeated by intentionally missing skill checks (and if you're referring to the Overcharge meme build, that is easily countered by staying asleep and simply... looping him.), aura reading means absolutely nothing when you can just loop him BECAUSE he is M1, and he has HUGE weaknesses that overshadow his strengths. Saving in front of him being a thing, slugging being impossible... completely garbage Killer and was considered to be the worst killer in the game. People BEGGED for reworks and I'm NOT silently letting a small minority undo the dev's hard work.
"Run behind the guy playing dead hard chicken for 5 seconds before you swing at him."
... I have to ask this now that this question presents itself: Are you playing at low MMR? Because you don't seem to be playing against good or decent Survivors.
"Anyway, neither of us are going to change each other's opinions."
Honestly, given how you're just giving up when we have advanced, I wonder if this is how you approach every discussion/argument.
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What can we do that BHVR is doing something for Freddy? He is the most iconic villain in the horror franchise, everybody knows him.
I dont need Old Freddy, I just want some addons that fits to his abilities, which are good in my opinion. Anti-Loop and Map-Pressure. My options are written down earlier. His current state compared to "normal killers at A or B-Tier like Oni, Demogorgon or Artist" is disappointing. Shouldnt be every killer at almost the same level and only the skill of the players should become the differences?
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Why be so rude? We literally just have a difference of opinion. I'm sure you'd act like this to my face. Classic internet tough guy.
I'm not giving up on an argument, I've just said my peace. That's it. I don't care what streamers or other people thought about old Freddy. I'm telling you how I feel and my experience with old Freddy.
I didn't even watch your video. Just because someone makes a video of their opinion doesn't mean it's science fact all of a sudden.
And where are your sources on 90 percent of people were crying for a rework? Seems like a number you just pulled out of your ass.
As far as MMR goes. I have no clue and frankly, neither do you because bhvr does not release MMR. That's such a tacky argument by the way. Cringe.
What MMR are you at where you're not having to bait out dead hard btw?
The nerve of ya.
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As I said in the feedback-section, here is my list for ideas how to change Mr. Krueger to become a more fun killer for everyone:
The best way to change Freddy is an addon-pass. Nobody runs Hemmorhage only-Addons like the Z- and Sheepblock. No one cares about Aurareading while using an Pallet-Addon. And there are 3 of them. What a waste of space.
Addons should change the killers ability for different playstyles.
For example: Pig
You can run Amandas Letter with Johns Medical File to be super scary in indoor-maps, u can run Double Gear for awesome Trap-Placement-Speed, u can run Workshop Grease with Cpmbat straps if u want to use Ambush more frequently on some maps or you could run Tape with Ruleset to slow down the early game.
So many different playstyles. Nice. Freddy can only go for Gen-Pressure. He has no other way!
Idea:
One Addon gives him his wallhack-ability from the Old-Freddy back, but for that, the teleport-cooldown is doubled. So u basically sacrifice mass-faking-teleports to play the Amandas Letter-Way.
One Addon sets down the cooldown for entering the dreamworld after waking up.
One Addon gives u 2 extra tokens for snares/pallets (like Huntress' extra hatches
Another Addon gives u tokens like Save the best for last, 1 per Hit, -2 for hitting the obsession. If u receive 8 Tokens, no wake up is possible besides with the clock and if they use the clock, their aura will be revealed for 10secs
Another one gives u Mangled AND Hemmorhage
Another one fasten ups the Teleport-Animation, for that, the cooldown is bigger
These are some ideas, which will create more variety to Freddy without buffing him massively (!).
If his Gen-Power will die thanks to the Perk-Overhaul, especially Pain Resonance, Pop or Dead Mans Switch, he NEEDS a lot of help!
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The dream world needs more... Fake gens, lockers, other things that you wouldn't see if you were awake. Even a hallucination of Freddy or other survivors in the game would be neat just to keep them on edge. And for those who are awake, they shouldn't be able to see or hear Freddy at all. Most games I play as or against Freddy, everyone is just asleep or in between because being awake doesn't matter. There needs to be some way to keep survivors waking up, and maybe in the beginning of the match keep that longer so it doesn't feel like the changes become killer sided. He's the Nightmare for a reason. Make it so the dream world is a nightmare to play in.
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His teleport is worse than other killer' teleports.
His snare self-slow FEELS awful, and makes his anti-loop way weaker.
His reduction of number of snares/pallets makes them way less useful for information gathering and gives survivors far greater ability to avoid them.
The buff to Alarm Clocks lets players completely ignore his whole mechanic.
All of his good addons were gutted, and their replacements are complete jokes.
None of the changes made Freddy feel more like the Freddy from the movies, nor did it make him more interesting to play or to go against. They were just cut across the board on every single aspect of his kit to make him a worse killer. The Devs just decided that they didn't want people to play Freddy anymore.
Freddy was the weakest killer in the game for a very long time. They buffed him at the cost of stripping out his core identity. Then, because M E T R I C S they nerfed him right back down to being D-tier while ALSO not having any of his original identity. The state of Freddy is a failure of the Balance Team on every level, and they should all hold that L.
Can you win with Freddy? Sure. There will always be terrible survivors who play poorly. Could you do better with most any other killer? Yeah. Yeah you can.
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I like the idea of fake gens and illusions of Freddy, but that has nothing to do with Player skill.
The should benefit good Freddys from bad ones with a skill-based ability. Fake Teleports and Teleports to come from another direction, but snares are pretty lame. Dredges Ability of an Remnant is a nice idea.
Also he should only be able to hit in dream is correct, which means he needs a kit which allows him to Pressure survivors into the dream over and over again.
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I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to be assertive. And... yes, I would actually talk the same way in real life (assertively), unless you're the type to punch people.
"I didn't even watch your video. Just because someone makes a video of their opinion doesn't mean it's science fact all of a sudden."
This explains everything. You didn't watch the video so you don't understand this and don't realize that you're wrong about the video. To describe the video, it's a meme video filled with experiences as playing old Freddy. The reason why I am bringing this video up is because it highlights the gigantic weaknesses that old Freddy had and how his strengths weren't enough to compensate for the gigantic weaknesses.
"And where are your sources on 90 percent of people were crying for a rework? Seems like a number you just pulled out of your ass."
Pre-rework sources? These forums. People frequently would talk about old Freddy and say he was the worst Killer in the game. They'd talk about buffs or reworks in the same breath. Hell, we even have a person saying the same thing that people did long ago ("Freddy was the weakest killer in the game for a very long time."). This IS what people's posts would have.
I'm also at an MMR on Killer where people know how to loop, frequently use Dead Hard and generally play effectively. I know this because of the types of Survivors I go against. Sometimes I get bad Survivors but it's typically people who know how to rush gens and use tiles decently.
It's not a tacky argument either, there are PLENTY of people on these forums who talk as if they're excellent players when they aren't as good as they think they are at the game.
And I don't have to bait out DH because... well, they DH to pallets and vaults. If you're at the MMR where Survivors are DHing in the open, it would imply that you're at low MMR.
... Sorry for the massive response by the way.
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