Does Decisive Strike REALLY need a very hard skill check?
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And not tunneling, like I said, is a dumb decision in several scenarios.
The problem is that not tunnelling is a dumb decision in pretty much every scenario, if you take DS out of the picture. It is just way too effective a tactic due to the way the game is set up.
But seriously, the skill check being made easy is not going to do any harm to the killers but it will improve the accessibility of the perk to anyone with sub-par hardware performance.
Skill Check can go, it is outdated.
I want to hit the brakes there: The skill check should be made very easy, not removed. The way the skillcheck functions also forces survivors to use it very shortly after being picked up, and it is critical that that aspect is maintained. Yes, you could create a whole new system where it has a limited activation window, but it'd be more development hassle than simply expanding the hit bar.
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Lol, that would be great. Having to hit those merciless storm skill checks while carrying someone to a hook. That would be hilarious.
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You cant buff DS until the games more balanced.
I'd be all for DS activating both hooks but the games just not built to be balanced and sometimes you just have to eat a DS or tunnel someone out.
DS is a strong perk still, does it need a skillcheck? Probably not but it's not the hardest thing to hit, killer has plenty of perks that have silly requirements.
DS is and always will be the perk I never unequip, it's just too good not to.
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Well, this is true, there should be a choice whether the Survivor wants to use DS or not.
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I would agree if it were still new players vs new players. Facing rank 20 to 18 opponents (not grades, rank) was the only time I wasn't mocked and BMed for playing killer and the only time when a new killer camped and tunneled only because they had no idea where to go or what to do. That's not the case a lot of times anymore and DS would just allow newer players who are outmatched to last a little bit longer.
Also, as a side note, if they're new and playing Laurie they're not playing David so no DH which I think is a good trade for everyone.
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No. This literally makes it a skill-less perk that punishes Killers for playing their objective.
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Trust me over time it isn't "very hard". you'll get there.
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You're not wrong, but they seem unable to fix the one issue, so if they can't fix that then it should at least by easy for them to make the DS skill check larger, so they're more like an early 2nd stage hook skill check. Low fps, input lag, and frame drops don't screw over normal-sized skill checks as much as they do the small ones.
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While I wouldn't say it is very hard skill check to hit, I absolutely believe it should be increased in size at the very least.
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The difficult skill check really isn't needed. The perk is fine as-is and the skill check just makes being a new player more difficult while getting tunneled as a new player is already so common. I think some kind of timed activation is fine just so you can decide to use it or not and it makes it more interactive, but they could make the skill check much bigger with no problem.
Something not often considered is that not all of the platforms that DBD runs on are at 60 FPS and sometimes not even a consistent 30 FPS. Difficult skill checks are much more difficult on Switch than on PC.
If you tunnel and get hit with a DS as killer, that's on you. If a survivor baits you into picking them up when they have DS, they just outplayed you. Hitting the skill check isn't skillful and it's usually just missed because you forgot you had DS or because the platform you're playing on lagged due to bad optimization.
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And... I could list a bunch of killer perks that are also skill less that punished survivors for playing their objectives.
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The difference being the Killer's goal is to stop Survivors via killing them.
The Survivor's goal is to escape. Not to stop Killers. That's the difference, and why Survivors should not have perks that punish Killers.
Instead, Survivors get to punish camping, punish slugging, punish tunneling. And now they think it's not only normal, but expected to do it more, and want perks changed to literally auto-DS and reward them if they do it better.
That's why this game barely has any Killers left. Because it's so Survivor-sided that Survivors think 'Let me have Auto-DS, and reward me with bonus stun if I hit the skillcheck' is a good idea. Because they have been conditioned to think 'I punish Killers' instead of 'I try to escape'.
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The skill check is not hard at all for me at least.
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If its very hard then why do survivors seem to always hit it?
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And with DS, they escape the killer's grasp!
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No, I don't think it really needs a skill check.
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Someone hasn't played on Xbox One, PS4 or Switch where anything and everything causes the game to freeze.
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Not really. It's only punishing to new players. A skill check isn't a problem for anyone else. I do know some people save their DS sometimes, so it should probably still have a skill check, but larger.
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I have longer wait times as killer, so I could make the arrangement that there are actually more than enough killers right now.
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Not siding with the user you're talking to, but DS and BT are helping the survivors escape.
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Fair, but DS in no way needs to be auto-success with a BONUS to stun time if someone hits the skillcheck. That's just bloody overboard hand holding.
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Yeah that's why BHVR doesn't listen to the community lol.
If survivors seem to always hit it what is the problem with removing it or making it easier for new guys? I'm not for balancing only for newcomers like BHVR seems to do sometimes, but I haven't seen a good argument against this yet. DS is going to still do its' purpose and it won't make a difference for anyone playing against experienced survivors.
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Except those few times someone misses it can be the difference between winning and losing. Living and dying.
People want it removed and that basically is taking away a chance for the Killer to get a kill by saying 'I want my hand held and to never risk failing a DS skillcheck.'
It CAN be failed, which means it IS failed, which is the point; it's not a 'Get out of hook free' button, which is what this thread wants to turn it into; they want to NEVER fail DS again with a 'Think of the NEWBIES!' argument meant to hide that it's a direct nerf to Killers by removing any and all risk of failure.
Edit: I HATE this bleeping cloudflare sometimes! Every second post; a little window pops up that basically means 'You can't post, and you can't save this draft. Enjoy losing it as you are forced to refresh before you can post again.'
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If people always hit it, isn't it already easy?
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They don’t. Stop trolling, it’s not productive.
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I personally don't use it so I don't care too much, which is the reason why I'm saying removing it isn't a bad idea. I respect your opinion though, and your explained why people care well. I just think the DS skill check is a little outdated because the version is now is very different from the original version that 100% deserved a difficult skill check. All in all, if people feel strongly about it being removed then I'm not going to advocate for it on their Twitter page or anything. I would like a customizable bot mode though! That would be beneficial to situations like this where a survivor needs to practice a perk.
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People don't always hit it when they are new, I was just going off of you lol.
Edit: I am also forgetting about the console players in this thread but that is an issue with the game itself.
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Productive is to say it needs to be a guarantee?
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I see this as the killer is guilty of tunneling, yet the survivor is punished for missing a very hard skillcheck. It is ironic to punish the survivor for something the killer is doing and for poor performance of the game.
Ideally the perk should be usable when the survivor decides. It doesn't warrant having such a painfully small skillcheck since there is nothing that good and special about the perk anymore. It needs to be bigger.
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Yeah the skill check isn't really necessary it really only hurts new players and potentially turns them off from the game because the barrier to entry for the only self perk in the game that really helps against tunneling.
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The thing is your friend will only get better with hitting hard skill checks over time because of it. It needs to stay hard as its the only atk skill survivors have hopefully with a little training your friend will master it. They should also try hitting greater skill checks while on a gen while not exactly the same they do help with practice over time. One way you could help your friend get is with you playing as doctor in a custom match using Overcharge let them start a gen and then u as doctor can kick it and they would then see a difficult skill check to hit as well which can help them get in that hard skill check practice.
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I don't personally have an issue with DS's skillcheck. I guess they could make it easier to hit, but I don't think it's really all that tough to hit as it currently is.
The only thing I would change about it would be to not have a missed skill check perma-deactivate the perk. I see no reason why an inexperienced player shouldn't get a second crack at using DS if they messed up their first attempt AND were picked up while it was (or would've been) active twice.
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Free? It requires a perk slot, a hook state, non-participation and a series of misplays on the killer's part before it does anything.
How is that 'free'?
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I couldn’t have said it better myself.
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How can you miss a skill check? It's easy.
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And it's 1 of 16 perks to the Killer's 4 per match.
There's been 0 valid argument as to why it should activate with no chance to miss other than 'Survivors want more hand holding and effortless escapes'.
No perk, bar none, should ever, ever give Survivors a 100% free and guaranteed escape with 0 input required. This is a change that has 0 reasoning behind it other than 'Survivors don't want to fail DS' and 'Survivors want a guaranteed escape'.
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Are you high? 8 seconds stun for an easy skill check? lmfao
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If it's truly an anti tunnel perk, why not give the survivor a chance to actually gain distance and lose the killer? Instead it's a tunnel delay perk. Ope, got ds'd and the survivor is still well within distance for me to down them again in 15 seconds.
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I think that's less a DS thing and more a competitive mindset thing.
Until people change how they look at DBD, maybe throw on overcharge and get your friend to hit overcharge skill checks in a custom match until they can do it consistently. They're about the same size.
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I completely understand where people are coming from when they say to practice skill checks using overcharge or some online tool, but the fact of the matter is that not all newer players are going to want to spend hours in a skill check simulation just for a slightly bigger chance of being able to use a perk that should be available to people of ALL skill levels, rather than just those who have played the game for hundreds or thousands of hours. Not everyone has the time to spend hours and hours mindlessly practicing skill checks. My friend and I are some of those people. We want to spend that time playing the game and having fun. And I want to watch him get better as we play. But we can’t do that if we don’t have a way to keep him around long enough. Obviously a mechanics change to deter tunneling/face camping would be preferable, but making the DS skill check more accommodating for newer players would be helpful in the short term, yknow?
My friend and I don’t care about winning. It’s not a competitive thing. We just want him to be able to play the game consistently and be able to learn. DBD is a terribly difficult game to get into and it gets worse with every piece of new content because every new chapter adds a new killer with new mechanics, new perks, new maps, new tiles, etc. There are no tutorials for going against specific killers besides a tiny tooltip in the loading screen and no training mode. Every single survivor perk in the game barring Decisive Strike is easy to use once you meet the requirements to activate it, a simple change enlarging the skill check a bit would make a world of difference to all the new survivors who are struggling to stay alive long enough to learn how to loop or counter a killer’s power. (Yikes, sorry for the long ass response. Thanks for coming to my TED talk xD)
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Because it’s not an anti tunnel perk nor is it meant to be, because that would be busted. It is a one time discouragement of reckless tunneling since the stun allows for good survivors to punish the killer strongly for doing so. It is in a state of perfect balance as is.
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Decisive strike WAS and IS meant to be an anti tunneling perk. The devs have said, and I’ll quote and link to the dev update back in Aug. 2019 when DS was previously reworked: “We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed” the important part being where it says “serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/farmed” ( https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike )
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I don't think it needs one. I'm not a fan of people equipping perks, but not being able to use them for some reason.
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Again, AGAIN, every single killer has every single opportunity, five times up and down the line, to NOT let DS trigger. If DS triggers, that is entirely YOUR fault. You have a plethora of counterplay options, if you actively choose to employ NONE of them, you deserve to have this perk triggered on you.
DS ISN'T 'FREE'. You single out ONLY the perk slot requirement but waltz completely over the hook state requirement, the non-participation requirement AND the required misplays from the killer.
The skill check is an old left-over from when DS WAS free. But it no longer is. So it deserves to be reconsidered in its current form.
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I meant just try practicing the skill check for 5-10 minutes and that'll probably be enough.
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The devs could keep the skill check but just make it bigger so that 1. new players have a better chance of hitting it, and 2. input lag, low fps, and frame drops don't have such a perk-nullifying impact for the console playerbase.
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Honestly I wouldn't even be mad if they removed the perk.
Difficult skill checks are really not hard to hit.
This but a skill issue.
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"And I don’t mean the kind of strategic tunneling"
All tunnelling is strategic. It removes a player from the game.
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There is no entitlement to a free, easy, or safe escape from the hook.
Read.
Just. Read.
A culture in DBD developed that demands the first hook to be without threat from an assumption that because you can be hooked 3 times before sacrifice means you have an entitlement to three hooks. You do not have that entitlement.
Your attitude is precisely why the game is in such an awful state at the moment. I could elaborate, but you're probably not going to read anything I write anyway, since you didn't do that for the post you responded to.
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"Killer Mains will be against every Survivor buff"
I can name TEN ways to improve Survivor gameplay. Buffing Meta perks ain't it.
If Decisive Strike needs a buff, it's a second use per game - one per hook state.
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