Reworking nurses add-ons is the only solution
We can’t rework her power and here’s why.
if you remove the ability to teleport through walls then she will be THE WORST killer in the game. You would have to buff her movement speed to normal killers, and probably give her a secondary power to compensate.
if you remove the ability to blink twice she won’t be able to make it to gens quick enough. Meaning you can gen rush her, that’s not fun for anyone.
as far as I can see. The only solution is to rework her add-ons. We don’t need range, instead we would make more fun addons like reworking her terrible pink add-ons.
if you believe she needs to be reworked with her power YOU NEED TO TELL US HOW. Saying “she should be nerfed because… trust me guys.” Is not an excuse, it just sounds like you hate going against her and not actually looking at the health state of the game and nurse
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Only range and third blink need reworks.
Heavy Panting could be removed. Kavanagh’s Last Breath could be turned into, I dunno, Infectious maybe. (Downing someone with a hit after blinking = AoE screams)
Torn Bookmark needs to keep the +1 blink for the achievement. But the downside should probably be reverted (can’t blink through areas without LOS). There is no fundamental way to balance three blinks without breaking the rest of the kit. The old version was a pretty garbage meme add-on, but that’s the only form 3 blinks would be okay in.
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Fragile Wheeze, Heavy Panting, Kavanagh's Last Breath and Torn Bookmark are the main ones that need to go/be reworked. I think Fragile Wheeze and Heavy Panting should have entirely new effects, Kavanagh's Last Breath should be an 8m increase to Blink range instead of 6m but the downside is changed to 30% slower movement speed while blinking, and Torn Bookmark should work as it does currently, but only allow Blinks to be charged when you have all your Blink charges. Without Fragile Wheeze, Torn Bookmark is actually fairly punishing and not just a straight upgrade due to the additional cooldown.
The problem with Nurse's add-ons is that 90% of them are garbage, unnoticeable or actively hurt to use, while like 4 of them are incredibly strong. Only nerfing the best ones isn't what they should do; they honestly should just do another add-on pass. Spasmodic Breath, Matchbox, Jenner's Last Breath, Bad Man's Last Breath, Catatonic Boy's Treasure, White Nit Comb, Dull Bracelet, Anxious Gasp, Pocket Watch... all of these need reworks/heavy buffs, barring maybe one of her meme add-ons. Nurse has 3 meme add-ons that exist just to give her bloodpoints, which is just stupid.
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A reworked power doesn't mean that she doesn't need changes
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Defending Nurse 💀
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It used to be common practice that you wouldn't run any add ons when playing Nurse since it messed with your blink muscle memory.
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I believe the entire DBD community is open to hearing a suggestion of a nerf that doesn't invalidate her power and at the same time keeps her from being overly oppressive to the survivors who complain about her so much. While I'm of the opinion that she's fine as she is and doesn't need any further changes, I'm also open to changing that opinion once I read the amazing take you surely have, given how you mock people who actually play her and know how she works instead of sitting on survivor queues and bitching about powers that require actually using your brain to play against all the time.
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The only addon you should be using is plaid flannel or none .
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If you think her basekit is fine then the only solution is to remove her add-ons from the game, add-onsless might make her a bit more balanced but even then she will keep the crown of the strongest killer
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Well what is your take for thinking she is fine how she is?
(I think her basekit is fine, and only a few addons need to be changed.)
And it's not like the person you replied to was replying a well constructive criticism. "Cope" isn't very productive and isn't really a suggestion.
Also the "survivor queues long" really depends on your time and region, mine are instant and I even have crossplay off
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Notice how the person I replied to said "Defending Nurse", not "Defending Nurse's add-ons", which implied to me they think the killer as a whole is problematic.
As someone who used to play exclusively Nurse, I grew tired of seeing survivors simply refuse to accept the fact she is just not like every other killer and by consequence refusing to learn how to play against her, lost count of how many people tried to loop me around tiles or use pallets as a means of creating distance or even to try and stun me. Regardless of the addons I was using, these people would die. Nurse has been around since year one and STILL some people think it's more productive to complain rather than trying to learn how to go against her. I've done it all, played solo queue against nurse, played swf/kyf as and against nurse, played comp as nurse, played comp against nurse, multiple times. I will firmly stand by my belief that Nurse as a killer is fine and does have counterplay. Yeah there are situations where you can't do anything but that happens mostly because of map layout and player skill, not the killer's power.
Her addons are a whole different story. I played addonless because I specifically think ALL recharge and range add-ons are stupid. Then again, almost every killer has some addons that make their power stupid, for example Blight with Alchemist Ring and Huntress with the Oak Haft and Babushka combo.
Nurse is a core part of DBD, refusing to accept to learn her is not gonna make her go away, and any further changes to her power would just show me how BHVR will do anything to appease ######### survivors.
EDIT: fixed text
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I agree with you then. I think her basekit is fine, and completely reworking that would just be throwing a really big and different power dynamic of the game away.
I think the devs should focus more in making all killers basekit stronger, instead of then adding addons that take things way too much, example the ones you gave. I'd like to see them adding different power variants to addons instead, a good example of this is Freddy with both snares and fake pallets. This would make people use addons for variety instead of making underwhelming killers average and already strong killers too much.
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i think the easiest change would be seperate range and charge speed. having both of them in the same addon is really stupid, omegablink nurse is stupidly easy to play as imo
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I assume its remove range/recharge addons? Basically just make it even more hold forwards gameplay so she cant catch up without wasting so much time she loses by default..
Personally if you want to change nurse I feel you should go at it a different way and look more into how long she can hold her ability, maybe even limit her turn after a blink so it gives the survivors more counters in terms of movement and puts a nurse under abit more pressure to do blinks
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Please don't compare old Freddy to old omegablink nurse... it's just not the same
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Freddy? You mean the very weak killer with completely pointless addons? Yeah that for all killers would just kill the killer base more
Half his addons dont do anything worth all the BP and even then they only work while asleep and they nerfed his basekit by decreasing movement while placing snares and limit the amount you can place. You also get immunity to falling to sleep when you first wake up..
Freddy is not a good example of a good killer base with addons that just change/tweak his power/the game slightly
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"You would have to buff her movement speed to normal killers, and probably give her a secondary power to compensate."
Of course. This is clear.
Removing her ability to blink through Walls would require her to be at least at 4.4 m/s. This would also make her easier to pick up for newer players, since her Skill Floor is the highest in the game. (But she is not that hard once you got used to her Blinks)
If you want to balance Nurse, you need to balance her Basekit. Reworking her Add Ons is not a good idea, since base Nurse is broken by design and do you really want a Killer who only has Meme-Add Ons? Things like additional Blinks, Blink Recharge Speed or Range should not exist, but IMO a Killer with strong Add Ons is better than a Killer who is more a design failure with Meme Add Ons.
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Freddy is not as weak as you're trying to portray him to be. He is one of my mains, and even only using fake pallets, I do just fine with him.
His addons aren't pointless, if you decided to use your brain you'd see i mentioned variety, not "pointless".
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Agree to disagree again then, freddy is very weak and his addons are basically pointless.
Now if you said wraith, I could maybe agree abit more because his addons are good but not to strong or needed. even then hes just another basic attack killer and his lunge nerf hurt his antiloop but if you think freddy is a good example we're on very different opinions and levels
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Give her addons to let her block vaults and pallets by blinking through them
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The point of my post wasnt about having good/bad addons. I said on it that no killers should rely on addons, their basekit should be solid enough to a point addons aren't needed at all, and they would just add variety to their power, that's why i gave the freddy example, since his addons actually change his power in some kind of way (snares x fake pallets)
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there is a way to nerf her power slightly without affecting her strength
currently her fatigue is 2 seconds long plus 0.5 seconds for each additional blink and it takes 3 seconds to recharge each of her blinks
so if a nurse blinks once she will have to wait 1 second after fatigue before she gets her blink back or 3.5 seconds if she blinked twice
the speed of which she gets her power back is the main issue as even if the nurse makes a mistake she can correct it almost immediately and using her power to move across the map to patrol gens is free
my suggestion is to make it so if she blinks but fails to hit any survivor the blinks only start to recharge after the fatigue ends. this way the nurse will have to wait 5 seconds if they blinked once to get the blink back or 8.5 seconds if they blinked twice. but if the nurse succeeds in hitting a survivor after a blink she recovers like she dose on live.
not only will this give survivors a little bit more of a chance in chase if the nurse makes a wrong read it will also make her map pressure less oppressive as she has to wait longer before she can blink again if she uses her power for mobility.
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Yes did you not know? I work for BHVR and me thinking that Freddy isn't weak is why all the killers are being nerfed :((((
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To piggyback on this: the situations that Nurse can put you in where you have zero options happen on nearly every other killer if they're played well. But for whatever reason, it's a problem on Nurse. Has anyone ever tried to play shack against a good Demogorgon? A low wall tile against Trickster or Slinger? Just about every killer B tier and above has an automatic win in specific areas.
Watch any comp Nurse game and see how survivors play her relative to survivors in a public match. There is so little LOS breaking or unpredictability in pubs. Players break LOS once and think that's all they need to do, as if the Nurse doesn't have 2 blinks.
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I just never verse enough good Nurses to really feel that strongly that she needs to be nerfed, especially as she already has been nerfed hard.
However I can understand the objection to range as that is pretty broken, along with the bookmark which never made sense to me.
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Nerf her and fatique has to be replace with just a slowdown akin other killers.
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Her basekit is broken, and she has enough mechanics you can put on the cutter. for example you can cutdown/remove her blink lunge, so if you cant blink properly you dont get carried by her "180 lunge around the corner" anymore. You can look into fatigue, into range, into blink speed, into recovery, you can even limit through how many objects she can blink. There are enough option for a basekit change. afterwards you have to adjust the addons. Just chaning addons doesnt do anything. the playerbase has already proven that even basekit nurse is broken.
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Which is why she averages out to a 2K when going against players of even skill, yep.
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Which is only true to the top 1% where gameplay is fundamental different to casual public games.
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I’m not talking about tournament play only. I’m including pubs.
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Yeah that was my point. There are no changes to be made to her power and people who complain can't do much more than reasonless complaining.
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Everyone talks about her addons and attacks and lunge... why not rework her altogether?
She isn't exactly the picture of perfect balance by any stretch of the imagination - what would all of you do if you were written a blank check and Behavior asked YOU to come up with Nurse 2.0 ?
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So, any of you is wanting to play her and show, after a streak of wins, how broken she is at high MMR?
No?
That's what I thought. (Yeah, that would require to learn her which is way more difficult that to learn to verse her.)
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Yeah imma say it right now!
Your essentially complaining about the things that makes nurse a threat and I doubt you know this because you don't play Nurse!
Asking for Nurse nerfs is playing with fire while dealing with a double edged sword.
1. Nobody seems to understand that when strong killers get reworked they get gutted. Billy, Freddy, and Spirit for examples
2. Nerfing Nurse could potentially be the straw that breaks the camel's back because she's the only killer left carrying the community
3. Nerfing Nurse will be taking away from the variety pool. In otherwords, Blight will be the only killer seen at high levels
Be careful what you wish for, I suggest you get good with Nurse, get to high level MMR and try to understand why these add-ons are used before complaining.
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Be careful what you wish for, I suggest you get good with Nurse, get to high level MMR and try to understand why these add-ons are used before complaining.
This.
I wonder how many people calling for her to be nerfed actually play her, and realise how hard she is!
She should literally be the survivor's beacon of perfection, because to be any good with her requires that you develop your skill (which is what survivors are always crying about... nerf NOED 'cos no skill, nerf xyz because it's skill-less, git gud, etc). And along comes a killer that literally requires skill to utilise, and instead of upping their game to compensate, they cry for nerfs instead.
Just goes to show survivors don't actually care about skill, etc. They just want easy games where they can stomp the killers. And if any killer has the means to stomp back - which is where they're supposed to be by default - then they'll just cry for nerfs instead of improving their game
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I hope you weren’t talking to me. I’m a console nurse and I have been playing her since the pig came out. I’m not asking for her to get nerfed I’m saying IF we DO nerf her then you can only nerf her addons otherwise she would be bad
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Again, your asking to nerf the things that make her a threat. 90% of her add-ons are useless!
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Why? She's the best-designed and best-balanced killer, if you pay attention to actual even-skill matches/even map matches.
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